Hi just looking for some advice on how we can make progress when walking our male border collie. He's 6 months and has a dominant personality although he is brilliant at home, but ever since we started taking him out he has had a very good "eye" for cars. He doesn't bother with anything slow (like bikes or joggers) just cars really he obviously wants to chase them and a couple of times he has managed to nip the tyres of cars that stopped on the pavement right by us! I know this is a problem with alot of collies and believe me we have worked very hard to try and get his attention back to us - the person at the end of the lead, instead of on the road. He has no appetite when he's out so treats are no good and he's not scared of anything noisy so that's no use, clicker training hasn't worked and we have tried disciplining him on the lead with various commands - "no, leave etc" but he just doesn't care basically - he's that obsessed. We did have a halti on him - which worked for about a month (the element of surprise!) but he got used to it and eventually broke it as he was straining so hard against it! so we are starting to run out of ideas. We don't avoid any roads etc because we don't think it would make a difference as he knows where all the main roads are and tends to be calmer when we are away from them. Does anybody have any suggestions please!! we could really do with some help as we want to get this sorted before he gets any older and stronger and start enjoying our walks.

thanx
ellie

Ellie

I sympathise as I have the same problem with my collie, I have had collies before but this is the first that is into chasing cars.

I have tried everything from a young age to cure it, but once a collie has this fixation it is very difficult to break.

You are right that quiet roads are better and I have found she is much calmer in daylight, the headlights send her right over the top.

She is so good with everything else I just avoid taking her out at night and where possible take her in the car to the woods for her walk. Like mine at least by ignoring joggers and bikes you can let her off for a free run. I tend to look at it that it would be worse if it was joggers or bikes.

Regards
Sandra

Hi Sandra - thanks for letting me know we are not alone, you always hear that this is a common collie trait but somehow you always feel like it must be 10 times worse with your dog! I guess every dog has it's problems to deal with though (trying to be positive there!)

I don't know if anyone can help with this but at training last night my trainer suggested we get a semi-choke collar which is leather but has a chain in it (or something) that tightens when the dog pulls - obviously not quite as harsh as your full on choke - which we are not keen to use at all. I just wondered if anyone uses one and if so is it any good, and then where do you get one from? Any info on that would be really great thx.

We use a Kumfi head collar on our Aussie - absolutely brilliant - much, much better than the 1/2 choke :)

Daisy

I assume that when you say he's not scared of noises that you haven't tried an aversive like training discs or a rattle can? These devices aren't used (or shouldnt' be used) on dogs who are scared of noises - but on dogs like yours who aren't. They are used as the opposite of a 'clicker' (which indicates a reward) - to indicate 'that's the wrong thing - you won't get a reward this time'. They can be very effective in stopping this kind of behaviour - the nikki training discs come with a booklet that explains how they work. The dog needs to be conditioned to the idea that the noise means 'no reward', and twinned with plenty of praise for doig the RIGHT thing they often work........
PS - if the Halti broke then Company of Animals are very good about refunds and replacements........

I suppose it would be more appropriate to say that he doesn't care about noise because he is so focussed on the cars. We did try rattling a can to distract him but he just ignores it. Your explanation of the use of the training discs etc makes alot of sense and we didn't use the can from that perspective with the condition training and all. It is difficult as the whole reward / no reward is of little use to a point as he doesn't care if he gets one or not when we are out - he just spits them out again. But maybe we should try and have a go at this conditioning which sounds useful - so thank you! Anything to try and find a way of learning that gets through to him!

Re the Kumfi Head Collar, thx for the tip Daisy - i don't think i have come across those before - is it very substantial as i'm thinking we need something thicker and stronger to put on him - looking at the broken halti now i think maybe it was just too thin and pathetic for him!

No - it isn't substantial :) Perhaps if yours has broken the halti, maybe he would break the Kumfi :) Our Aussie would pull like a train - she even pulled my hubby over once :) She stopped pulling as soon as she had the Kumfi on :) Walks perfectly to heal all the time now - wonderful :) Not sure what the difference is between the two - you really need someone who has used both to know if it is much different to the halti. I think that it is called a Kumfi Dogalter. We have the problem with joggers - not cars :)

Daisy

Hi Daisy - i just had a quick look for the Kumfi web page and reaslied that the lead we have is the same make - and it's been brilliant so i think we may well give the head collar a try, i think they have some at our training class - so thank u.

Try the dogmatic headcollar, it is made of leather, buckles up and is extremely strong. However it is very expensive

thx for the tip re the dogmatic head collar - i'm doing well with those today! Had a quick peek at the website and it looks very strong! May be the ticket, but as you said the cost is a factor - but then it shoud be worth it, will see if the Kumfi looks any stronger close up and try one of them! At least it's nice to have some options again.

We took on a 6 month old collie at the start of the summer. She was 'food aggressive' which was why she was in rescue. Unbeknown to us she was also a car chaser. We are lucky enough to have a large field adjoining our house and the first day we took her out with the others they all headed into the field and she ran up the drive out of the gate and headed for the main road. Fortunately, someone intercepted her. When we were in the field she would run across 5 acres in seconds flat if she heard a car engine. She is now 13 months old and has no desire whatsoever to chase cars. This has been achieved by teaching her to play with balls and frisbees and also training her for agility. We didn't walk her near roads when a car reversing up the drive would drive her crazy. She was never punished, nor did we use aversives, we just gave her another outlet for a natural behaviour and took away the opportunity for her to go wrong.

Sally

Wow! is all i can say Sally - you must be sooo pleased with her progress. Could i be cheeky and ask for an expansion on teaching your collie to play with balls and frisbees - what exactly does that mean and how did you achieve it? Our boy is play orientated but only in the garden, we haven't really made a good attempt to get him focussed on toys outside of the home territory, he is very good off the lead and loves to run around but as yet no interest in the toys we take with us so any advice would be great. We really do want to get him started on agility and i'm going to speak to our trainer about getting him started with some basics before he is old enough to do the jumping (it's about 12 months old i think?) One final quickie hope you don't mind me asking but does your collie have a dominant personality as we have a very strong willed boy - and he doesn't get away with anything at home but he always gets his way out on the roads - just curious!

Thanks for letting us know there's some light at the end of the tunnel!
e
x

Been really interested to read this thread - Sparky (also 6 months BC) is the opposite - afraid of cars. He digs his heels in at the front door when he thinks he is going to have to go out at night. Fine in the car, watching all the headlights etc, but hates walking along the busy roads. Think I'll take a tip out of Sally's book and keep away from the busier roads for a while, then reintroduce slowly. On another note, we are now trying a halti, which does seem to be working. His gentle leader was too small for him, and the shop didn't have the next size up, so we ended up with a halti instead. Seems to be helping, but he still tries to pull on it. I just feel that he's safer on it - less likely to dart across a road to get away from the traffic.
Tracy

Time & patience & practice. We don't play in the garden and rarely in the house so the only opportunity for her to play ball or frisbee is when we go out. I tease her with the ball, and praise her lavishly for picking it up and then put it in my pocket and send her away. Then when she is wondering where she can find a car to chase I produce the ball from my pocket and play a short game again. By rationing the game and not boring her with it she is desperate to play and to work for the toy. She'll now play and work non-stop for an hour or more at a time.

You ask if she has a dominant personality. I think a lot of dogs are misunderstood when they are labelled dominant. I like to think that the relationship I have with my dogs is based on cooperation not competition.

Sally

My collie used to do this and wwe tried everything to stop it but to no avail so i asked my trainer for advice and she suggested a one to one session with a masterplus citronella collar. THis is a remote contro collar that when activated emits a sharp burst of spray underneath the dogs chin. It doesn't hurt the dog but they don't like the smell and the spray gives them a surprise, similar to training discs or a can of stones. You have to get the timing right which isn't easy hence why i went out with my trainer. As soon as she saw my dog about to lunge she pressed the remote control and the shock just interrupted her behaviour enough to make her think that chasing cars is unpleasant. This method isn't for everyone as nervous dogs can be made worse but as you say your dog is an unflappable dog it seems suitable. I also like to think of it as a last resort and as this problem could have life threatening consequences this is one of those situations. I used a halti with my dog but i found that she still lunged and her whole body swung into the road, which was even worse!!
You can but the masterplus collar but at over £100 it is expensive for something that you may only use a few times. You can hire them from various places though. Do you go to training classes? If you do your trainer could help you, like mine did.
Good luck! ;-)

Hi lucyandmeg! I think i would have to opt for the hire option first so i will check with my trainer thanks. Sounds like it could do the trick - only trust my dog not to care about it, i think again as with all the advice i've received so far it's worth trying because as you say it could be life threatening, and we have definately had MORE than 1 of those experiences when out and about, although i think my reactions are speeding up and my arms are getting bigger! Thanks for sharing your experience with me, it's a comfort to know!

Sally - thanks for the additional detail, it sounds like you have worked really hard with your collie and are now reaping the rewards - we do find it difficult to keep going, but we will definately not give up - a new tack is called for i think! It just seems like everytime we try something new the novelty eventually wears off and he goes back to his old ways - but this is probably more about where we are going wrong and not the dog i think! You mentioned not playing so much at home which brought me to a realisation that his walking has got worse again since we have not been playing in the garden so much due to the poor weather. We play alot of games there and run around so he has less of an outlet for his natural instincts at present. As you quite rightly say it is just time and practice and patience but hearing it from other people with similar experiences really helps get you back on track!