Hi Our lab is now just about 5 month old now and I`ve posted several times asking for advice about her biting, (bitey crocodile) this is slowly getting better I think, some good days, some not as good. The worry I have at the moment is that when she is playing with other dogs she chases them round with her teeth clacking trying to catch them and on several occasions she has hurt them. Yesterday morning she was playing with 2 lovely red setters and she nipped one of them while playing. When we were at dog training classes last night there were some very young puppies and after playing for a few minutes she became quite nasty towards them and started growling and nearly fighting with one puppy. The trainer seemed quite okay with this and just said "put your puppy on the lead". (she is now nearly the oldest in the class and also the biggest). We walk daily with a 7 yr old german shepard bitch who is very gentle and there is a lot of noisy play fighting but the last few days the play fighting is getting quite nasty with my lab trying to get the upper hand all the time. Is this `just` her growing up and showing her `dominence`. I am actually concerned about how she behaved towards the younger puppies last night. She has had loads of socialisation with other dogs and on a daily basis plays with at least 3 - 4 different ones and when greets them approaches them submissively crawling on her tummy and sometimes then rolls on her back if she hasn`t met them before. When I go to put her on her lead she instantly rolls onto her back and thats when her biting really starts. Any advice please!!!

She sounds like a pup who may find some play situations a little too much and is finding that she's having to increase the pressure to stop other dogs making her feel so uncomfortable. I'm not sure it was appropriate for your trainer to ask for her to go back on the lead, personally I would have liked to see the pup that was pushing her to snap restrained, and your pup allowed to find somebody else to play with more gently. Puppies who often play with older dogs (either at home or regularly on walks) often increase the agression like this - so I would limit her playtimes with her GSD friend, however gentle she is

How did the Setter react when it was nipped? Don't forget puppies have VERY sharp teeth, and setters a very fine coat, so it could have been purely an accident...........

Hi digger, she was very excited last night and it was very busy, there were a lot of new puppies, very small and `yappy`this little one kept running up to her and barking, the owners kept saying "bless it, look" every time I kept moving her and encouring her to go and play with the bigger ones she usually goes and plays with she ended up in a corner with this little staffy which was growling and barking at her.(I`ve not got anything against staffies) It was only very small so she then became quite nasty and snarled at it.(Thats when the trainer said to put her on the lead). She usually plays really well with the other pups which are the same age / size but shes very boistrous and bouncy. When she nipped the Setter, it yelped and ran back to the owner but Skye, my pup just carried on trying to play. We move out of the puppy class when she`s 6 months old so have 4 weeks left in this class but after yesterday i`m wondering if its worth carrying on with it and just waiting for a month. We only have a very small mat to walk round on and just practice heel work on it . Its really a puppy socialisation class we go to. I`ve just taken her for a walk again with my friend and her gentle dog and everytime it has appeared the playing is getting out of hand I have told her to `leave it` which suprisingly she has done!! and has had a biscuit for it, or I have put her back on her lead for a few minutes. I am also going to walk on my own sometimes so I can get her used to not having someone to play with all the time and also get some recall training in. Do you think this is a good idea?

A puppies age and size have very little to do with how well they cope with 'puppy play'. Staffies are well equipped mentally to 'have a go' at most things bigger than them - but maybe your pup isn't so well equipped, and has learnt (through playing with the GSD) that use of the teeth gets the pressure off? It also doesn't sound as if she's learnt yet that a yelp means somebody doesn't want to play any more.... Some puppy socialisation classes can actually teach a puppy more bad things than good I'm afraid :(

It is a very fine line when you need to jump in and stop her. She needs to be shown what is acceptable and how far she should go as I think you may be letting her go past that slightly. Do not be afraid to show her that you disaprove but at the same time when she is behaving to show her how much you do approve !

I think you may need to step in a bit sooner and make her understand where the acceptable parameters are.

HTH

Lucy
xx

My boy plays with a Black Lab who is EXACTELY the same age to the day as him...... and the lab always ends up becoming very boisterous (as Labs are when they're pups...and some ;) ), weekend just gone he really bit one of the other dogs hard and then turned on his owner! His owner has spoken to his trainer and said that sometimes labs can become so over excited it can turn into aggression but they tend to 'grow out of it'..... :(

try an APTD TRAINER i have the same problem with my staffie and it is because he is afraid. they are very understanding and will be able to help.

If she was hassled a lot by the staffie who then cornered her, her reaction was fairly normal if not totally confident :) Staffies are gorgeous but even small ones can be very "full on" with other dogs and scare them. IMHO at your class, the teacher could have perhaps suggested to the staffie owner that it needed a bit of distraction/controllling rather than being allowed to hassle your dog :)

Sounds as if you are doing really well :)

Lindsay

Thanks for your comments, I`m going to ring a trainer up today, (I actually used her once years and years ago) I`m going to ask her advice but she also advertises not only 1;1 but training classes with clicker etc, and also has classes in the day. The down side is that its about 3/4 hr drive from me.
I`m not sure about continuing about the puppy classes its a shame because its all coming together and we`ve had 2 really good weeks and the hard work we`ve put in is really paying off but there are a lot of small puppys starting and its only a small room so the atmostphere is very excited and `yappy`which she seems to feed off at the moment and I`ve noticed her biting gets worse when she`s `hyped up` anyway.I may give her 1 more week just to enquire weather we automatically `move up` at 6 months or have to apply or just to see if last week was a blip because she was teething.
What does anyone think. One last thing am I correct in thinking she may be having her first season at aroundabout 6 months onwards and I definately wouldnt take her out for about 2 weeks. Sorry for sounding so dense about that but have never had a bitch before.

Hi Suzy - although i'm fairly new to this puppy owning game myself i would say that regards your snappy lab in the puppy classes it does sound as if the class you are in is quite large with quite a range of ages of pups which can cause difficulties for any dog owner socialising a young dog, maybe you would be better to look for a smaller class where there are less distractions and your dog can concentrate more on learning rather than having other dogs in it's face all the time - i know my 6 month old collie does not appreciate this at all! He is fine to say hello but if they keep going at him and don't get the "i'm ignoring you now" message then he will snap as a warning - but that is what dogs do, you have to consider that not all dogs are friendly all of the time - regardless of age and all pups need to learn those body language warning signals at some stage. Although it sounds as if your class is a bit hectic i'd be cautious about trying to avoid these types of situations as it will only make your dog more wary when it becomes older and get into bad habits - deal with it head on now and try and control the situation as best you can with your dog so that she knows you are there with her - which might reassure her somewhat. As for the other dogs getting in her face i would ask their owners to just keep an eye on them a bit more and make it clear you're not comfortable with their behaviour - you'd want to know if it was your dog after all! Hope that helps!

Hi Suzy,its the terrible twins time again. My 5 month old lab Star is exactly the same as yours at the classes.She knocks the other pups over,and then grabs them by either the tail or throat,or whatever else is handy.They are never off the lead at our classes,thank goodness as she would just wade in and cause havoc.She jumps at the trainers retreiver,and is not put off by the warning growls.I really took her there to socialise her with other dogs,as she hasn't met many,but when they are kept on leads you can't get a true picture of how they will react,as the lead restricts them She is not aggressive at the moment,but how she would be if unrestrained is a different matter. My husband has commented on the fact that she seems to be "going" for the other pups rather than just play fighting. Apart from when she is being told to "sit" etc for a treat,her sole aim seems to be to get at these other pups.She is the biggest pup there,and the other owners are wary of her now,as she just jumps on their pups at every opportunity.I was hoping the older dog warning her would put her off,but not a bit.Don't know what to do now,the classes finish next week,and I dont fancy letting her off lead in the park.She will either hurt a smaller dog,or get attacked herself,and that could lead to problems later on.My neighbours GSD was attacked by a black dog when he was a pup,and all through his life he attacked every black dog he saw. The classes re-start after xmas,so i will probably take her back then,as there will be older dogs,and she won't get away with bullying them. Hope Skye settles down soon,as well
Jean

Oh Jean tell me about it, terrible twins isn`t in it. At her class they always have 10 mins at the beginning when all the puppies get off the lead for a play, its meant to be for a socialisation/play session. As you said with Star she is the biggest there and bouncyest. The club itself is lovely, it is very large with an awful amount of members and i`m very impressed with it, it seems very well run and organised. It has a very strong/strict non-punitive (if thats the right word to use) attitude and although they are strict with the dogs it is a very `kind/gentle/praising` club if i`ve explained it properly. I`ve watched the beginners classes and they are much more disciplined than the puppy classes.
Skye does come off her lead everyday when on her walks I am lucky because we have acres and acres of common near to us where people take their dogs for walks and up to now she comes straight back to me when I have called her. As we`ve said before Star and Skye seem to have come out of the same mould, roll on their 10th birthday when they`ve grown out of everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D