Hi everyone, I have a 91/2 month English Springer Spaniel named Delilah. I love her to death and I have had her since she was weened. She has been a submissive wetter since we have had her, but now my husband has decided that I either figure out how to fix this problem, or I have to give her up. I don't know what to do. All of you seem to know alot about dogs, so I am hoping that you can give me some advice. Her bottom is constantly wet, and I have talked to the vet about it every time I have gone in with her, and he says that spaniels are just prone to it, and there is nothing we can do. I'm not quite sure if it is a total Submissive thing, either. she is getting brushed, she wets, she is playing with herself or chewing a treat, she wets. I have even come home to let her out of her crate and there is a wet spot on the crate, and the side she was sleeping on is soaked. that makes me think that maybe the muscle isn't strong enough to hold or control it. The vet is very relaxed about it, and so was I until this weekend when my hubby gave me the ultimatum....HELP ME...I don't want to lose my puppy.

Sara

lose the husband? :)

sorry, I don't mean to be flippant, but really, does he have to be so intolerant? I can't speak about spaniels and incontinence problems, but I can say that your puppy clearly has something wrong either physically or mentally. don't take this the wrong way, but how is your husband with her?

Well, she is more my dog than his. I feed her, get up in the morning with her, take her for walks, play with her etc. Lately he has been worse with her because she is going through that "teenage stage" and if we don't give her attention, she gets into trouble. (by the way you arent the only one who has said that to me about him). SO when she gets into trouble, he spends less time with her, and has a heavy hand with her. I have a much lighter hand, and seem to get better results...and everything I have read about ESS is that they need an understanding, and loving hand when training. He just doesn't seem to get it. I have told him that we aren't getting rid of her, and it is a big argument with us right now. But right now, I would rather have her over him.

:(
Sorry but I wouldnt give her up - surely he knows how much she means to you ?? :(

I told him that she makes me happy, his response is that she makes him miserable...so he is one-upping me in his mind. he yells at her all the time, and just isnt nice....and he wasnt this way when we first got her, nor when we first started dating, and got married. but do you seriously think i should call the Vet and get in this week...to have that checked out?

Some dogs do this through excitement.
I'm not surprised she is wetting if he is constantly shouting at her.

Please dont allow your husband to treat you and your dog this way :(

I am working on it....I left him once...and we have been going to counseling since August....and when i left, I took Delilah with me!

Good on you :) I like your style :)

OK, first stop is the vet, it could easily be something medical. But yes, he could be making her nervous - they pick up the vibes.

My first husband was intolerant with my dogs, he liked the look of them, liked talking about them, but didn't like the hard work. We divorced, not entirely over the dogs, but because he wouldn't take MY feelings into account over lots of things, including the dogs! I have Great Danes now, and when he comes to pick up the kids, he shakes his head - do I care? NO!! I also have horses, Guinea pigs, rabbit etc etc :D

Only YOU know if you can be happy with a man who doesn't appreciate how much she means to you - this could be the catalyst for you to show him how strongly you feel and to stand up to him. She's your puppy, you love her - why the hell should you give her up because he won't tolerate something you love? If you give in, where will it stop? He will know he can bully you into it next time. Stand your ground.

Good luck - please stay around and keep us posted :) :)

PS - welcome to the forum :)

thanks for the pat on the back, and thanks for the welcome. All the posts I have read so far everyone seems so nice. I am pretty sure I will like it here....:)

I was just on for a quick lurk but felt I had to reply to you.

My first husband was a bully (never with me but with my dog). We argued about him constantly then one day when I was at work the dog 'ran away'. This was 10 years ago and we argued about it again only today. What I need to say to you is - if he's like this with your dog, when it's you doing 90% of the caring and cleaning, what would he be like with a child?

I stayed with mine (doh!) and it turned out that he was a jealous bully with my two kids too so I kicked his sorry butt out :D

I'm not saying you should loose the hubby over your dog as only you know all the details but it does say something about him.

I'm remarried now and my new hubby accepts that he's always going to be sharing me with some animal or other. I've one dog and am about to get another with his full support. I even said to him that I'd love a Dane sometime in the next couple of years and he just rolled his eyes and said 'That one will not be sharing the bed!'

I hope things work out right for you all :)

Yep, my Jon is like that now. He would support me in anything. He hadn't even touched a horse before we got together, but now I have horses adn he feeds, grooms and is about to start riding. He understands my love of animals and supports me - and I love him for it.

WF - did you get my email back to you and the pic? :D

I agree with Chloe entirely
by giving up on your beloved girl then you are becoming the submissive one :(
When you love someone you put up with things your other half enjoys/loves even if you dont feel entirely the same way . :rolleyes:
I cannot believe he would ask you to do this
Good luck
Lel

Certainly get her checked out, but what if there is nothing physically wrong with her?

They say you can tell a person's true nature by how they treat children and animals.

You say you left your husband once and took Delilah with you? Was there any improvement in her wetting while you were away from him? - if so then he could well be making her worse :( I would still insist on a thorough check up at the vets tho as this does sound excessive.

I agree with Jeangenie you can always tell a person's true nature by how they treat children and animals - its saved me from a few 'frogs' :)

Good luck

Regards
Dill

no, there wasn't much improvement...it was the same as it has been since she was about 3 months, and we first noticed the problem.

This doesn't sound as though it can be entirely put down to submission.

Your vet seems to be treating it too lightly, and I would get a second opinion (I don't think you need a second opinion on your husband!).

no, I think he needs a good kick!

Hi. I have two English Springer Spaniels and the younger one aged 15 months is very submissive and was prone to weeing at all the times you mention i.e. when excited or frightened. Our vet said she would grow out of it and wasn't worried. What we did was completely ignore her when we came in and would walk outside letting her follow and then encourage her to wee outside. We also took her out frequently for a wee which alleviated the problem and at least meant that when she did her submissive weeing there wasn't so much of it !! The whole thing got worse when she had a nasty phantom pregnancy at about 10 months. Now she is almost completely over it. I think it just takes time and patience to overcome. I'm afraid your husband's attitude is hardly helpful. What I would suggest is some vet bed so at least she's not lying in it and it's easy to wash and dry.HTH.
Ruth
P.S. I go for lessons with a gundog trainer and he says that a lot of the nervousness is due to her breeding so it's nothing you've done.

Thank you Thank you! You are the first person I have had contact with that went through it. She goes outside quite a bit, so when she does wet, it isnt alot, but it is the fact that the odor is so strong. is there anything out there that helps with that? and I'm not sure what vet bed is. could you give me a description...or other names for it...im in the US and of course we have slight differences in names for things. I already ignore her when i come in...we have our routine and she hasnt had an accident since we started it. I did have her spayed at 6 months, so I don't think I ahve to worry about the phantom pregnancy so that is a good thing.
Sara
P.S. thanks for the affirmation.

Being spayed can cause incontinence...

Have a look HERE :)

Thanks for the article....that will help alot. I am going to call my vet tomorrow and see if I can get it.
Sara

If your vet is not taking this problem seriously, then I would consider a second opinion

Vet Bed

Unfortunately, I think Delilah will eat it....she eats everything she can!
But I will see if I can find one.
Sara

Its excellent stuff - a lot of people raise pups on it because its easy to wash and dry - she probably won't eat it. It also absorbs smells and liquid away from the dog, so she should be drier when she gets up, even if she's been leaking. You can buy it on a roll :)

Good luck

sara, id have her checked out----the fact shes damp when she gets up, and smells isnt just submissive surely ??? i once had a puppy whos bladder tubes werent conected up right, so she was constantly wet, and couldnt help it, id get a thorough check up,

calling the DR. Monday morning!!!

i have heard of a similar condition, have a look at this link
ectopic ureter

Hi Sara

I had to reply to your post. I have 4 ESS and my girl was exaclty the same. She is now 18 months old and hardly ever does it now. She used to wee whenever anyone greeted her, but she was always worse with my other half, although i have to say he loves her as much as me so it wasnt a scared thing. I think your other half is making things worse by shouting at her as this will then scare her into doing it more. My girl has actually grown out of it now although she occasionally gets in the position when meeting someone new she doeasnt actually pee. I think you need to get her checked more thoroughly by your vet and dont let him fob you off be firm and insist he run some tests. If all is clear then i unfortunatly dont know what to suggest other than wait until she grows out of it, and re train your hubby.

Hope all is well
Brinny

It is something ESS seem to be prone to (aka English Sprinkler Spaniels ;)) My little 4 year old rescue was the same with hubby - and a more gentle caring man you couldn't wish to find - but by understanding the situation, taking her outside to meet and greet, being aware of body language and her stress levels, and training using only positive methods (NO aversives like rattle cans or water sprays......) she's improved 1000 fold.

Hi Sara,
I have a 3 year ols ESS bitch and she also had similar problems, she grew out of her submissive piddling but was also prone to wetting herself in her sleep. I put her onto a homeopathic tablet called Causticum, it is supposed to strenghten bladder muscles and it has worked for Willow, she simply gets a tablet in her supper, but you can give more than one tablet a day for severe problem. I buy Causticum from a local health food shop sold under Weleda brand. She no longer wets herself (except when she goes to the vets!!) I also give her Denes Kidney tablets (which I get from Pets at Home) which are also natural and supposed to help prevent cystitis and other kidney/urinary problems.
With regards to you husband problem, a springer spaniel is more loyal, loving and they never let you down. When I met my husband I came with my springer or not at all (he now has one of his own).
Good Luck

Hi Sara and welcome to the forum,
Speaking from a mans perspective, is your husband perhaps intolerant towards Delilah because he thinks your giving her more attention then your giving him, could you sit him down and ask him why he's really that way towards her, and if it comes down to jealousy, tell him you've got more then enough love for them both.
Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but if your husband really cared for you he wouldn't be giving you ultimatums of any kind.
I speak from experiance, we have two cats, I say two, one dissapeared last night and I swear I had nothing to do with it lol :D, any way my wife always said hello to them first when she came in from any where, over time I really got to resent these two cats, not to the point I'd cause them any harm, but I just totally blanked them. Then one day we sat down and I said how I felt jealous that she said hello to cats before me, and she explained she didn't realize she was doing it. and now every things back as it should be, I'm not saying its solved that easily, but its worth talking about, then you can get rid of the husband lol

Robert

That's a really nice honest post, Robert :)

I wonder whether in the spaniel's case, it is partly due to submission and partly medical? A bit of both?

Lindsay

Hi Sara, Unfortunately I have no experience of either ESS or submissive wetting, but I just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you, and I agree with most of the other posters, you shouldn't give up Delilah, just because your hubby gives you an ultimatum :( Try telling him exactly how much she means to you, and how his behaviour isn't helping anyone, least of all poor Delilah. If you don't feel that your vet is treating the matter seriously, find another one who will!!
Good luck, I hope everything works out well for you, your husband and Delilah.
Sharon
X

Hello Sara. In one of your early posts you said your husband is 'HEAVY HANDED' with Delilah. Does that mean he hits her, because if he does, no wonder she wees. Besides any underlying medical condition, which it sounds she may have, she is probably nervous around him. On a lighter note, my American Cocker Spaniel also wet herself when young as she is a very sensitive and docile girl. For a while she had the nickname of "Potty Poppy, the Piddling Pup". but am pleased to say she grew out of it.! She is now 4 1/2years old, and the light of my life. My motto is ' Love me, Love my Dog'

Hope it works out for you.

Roni.