I have two one year old Border Terriers (brothers from the same litter) and couldn't be more fond of them (when they are behaving), but my wife and I are at our wits end with their behaviour - we know much of the blame lies firmly at our door, but are at a loss as to what to do to remedy the situation.

Problem 1 - they are guaranteed to run away whenever they are let off the lead. Since they were a few months old, we have walked them for at leat an hour and a half each day. To begin with, they didn't stray far, but now we don't see them for dust. We might as well be walking alone. We have been to training classes, and when the dogs are concentrating on our commands, they are well behaved and will come when called. As soon as they are out on a walk, deafness sets in. Now we keep them on long leads at all times which is boring for everybody

Problem 2 - they are very destructive, especially when left alone, even if for just 10 minutes

Problem 3 - we let them outside regularly during the day to do their business. However they would much rather run upstairs (where they are not allowed) and pee on our bed or poo on the carpet next to the bed. Every night (usually around 10pm) I spend a frustrating 20 minutes walking the around the field, watching them sniff grass and eat cat poo and resolutely refuse to poo themselves. 5 days out of 10, we will come down in the morning to a poo on the kitchen floor. They know they have done wrong, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

We feel we are doing all we can - plenty of exercise, rewarding them when they are good, ignoring when bad, we try not to leave them on their own. We also suspect that one of the dogs is much worse than the other, altough it is difficult to tell as we never actually catch the culprit in action.

I know that terriers are terriers and are inherently mischievous, but I would appreciate any advice as to how to improve things even slightly

Hi,
I had very similar problems with my two litter brothers, although they're a different breed. This is such a familiar story, of two pups being kept from the same litter, which is why most breeders never sell two pups together. (Mine were homebred, and nobody wanted dog puppies, so I only have myself to blame!)

Re the running off: what worked with mine was either walking them separately (by far the best idea) or only letting one off the lead at a time. It took till they were about 2 years old before they could be let off together.

With the messing upstairs - again, one of mine started to do this - a stairgate at the bottom of the stairs cured that.

For the destructiveness when left, I would suggest crating, or otherwise confining them, when they are left alone. With a single dog, a stuffed kong is a good activity to channel the chewing into another area, but if there is any chance they might scrap, then either omit this or crate them separately so it can't happen. Single crating overnight (you can have the crates side by side so they still have each other's company) will also let you discover which one is messing at night.

What time do they have their last meal? It could be that it is too late for them to need to poo at the time of their late walk. And have you taught them a 'command' word for toileting? That would tell them what they are out there for!

Hope this helps.
:)

This is a big help - thanks

We started to walk them separately, and also with one on the lead and one off. They were slightly better, but still took off if they caught sight of anything interesting

We give them their last meal between 5 and 5:30 - this sometimes slips a bit - we need to get better about this as I think you are right - it may cause some of the problems. And yes - we use the "quickly" command but with very little effect - perhaps we are over-using it?

We didn't want to resort to the crate again, but I don't think we have a lot of choice!

You dont live in devon do you??? :(
When we were hunting today we found two border T boys up on dartmoor, complete with collars/tags etc. they followed the horses/hounds for a while but the fog came down & i was worried about them so got off & carried one (the other then followed). Made some baler twine leads & led them back off the moor only to meet a frantic owner in the car park on mobile phone to husband to say she had lost "the boys" again!!!
I suggested she kept one leashed at all times in an effort to encourage the otherone to stay with her. Needless to say she was relieved to have them safely returned.

I wouldn't put it past my dogs to run the 200 miles or so to Devon, but I think they have been kept on a tight leash today. That lady has my sympathies!

Two terriers loose together are far more likely to go off on a hunting adventure than one on its own. As previous posters have suggested, one at a time is really your best bet, but don't count on them 'growing out' of this behaviour. Once they've discovered the delights of rabbits etc, then it won't take them long to remember again.
Mine go through phases, they won't run off for months then one day they'll disappear for hours. This has lessened recently due to introducing them to my 'dog walking coat' which is now known to be always bulgeing with dog treats, their's for the taking whenever they come to me, called or not. i also use flexi leads and the 'one-at-a-time' treatment whenever it is lambing season. My dogs don't go after lambs, but the farmer lays out poisoned carcases on his land boundaries to kill off the local fox population, sadly it kills dogs stone dead too, as many of my neighbours can testify!
Can't promise it'll work for you, but i can sure sympathise with terriers who like to go a-hunting!

Caroline

I agree to def. let them off individually and do training with them on walks. Don't just leave them to their devices - practise plenty of interractions so that you become the leaders in their eyes.....play games, hide toys, anything you can think of. /Also change direction lots and dont call them - let them find you. Mean it when you walk away too ;) YOu may have to so this at home at first before they will bother with all taht out on a walk though! I appreciate they are not border collies but this approach should help just a bit.

Also do lots of fun recalls and big fuss and rewards - top value rewards such as liver - they may return for something nearer to their particular needs such as a tuggy with an old bit of fox fur? The best thing for them is hunting, but with plenty of practise you may be able to get some sort of better response :)

When you say the dogs know they have done wrong, i can assure you they wont :) Submissive body language etc. is due to expecting owner anger, and they are trying to appease you - but this does not mean they "know" what they have done. If in the past you have been cross with them over housetraining issues, it is possible they are now concerned about going in front of you (as to them, poo or wee + owner presence = cross owner) . YOu may have to go back to basics.........

Get a copy of "The Perfect Puppy" byGwen Bailey as this will outlline teaching housetraining, plus many other things you have mentioned and leads you into adolescence..... all good fun !!!

Hth a bit anyway :)

Lindsay

Please don't take this the wrong way. I was encouraged by your posting. I am at my wits end with our 8 month old English Pointer. When I was researching breeds, I narrowed it down to either the border terrier and the english pointer. I went with the pointer...and let me tell you...all morning I have thought I should have gone with the terrier. Other than the housebreaking, I have many of the same issues you describe, but my dog is tall enough to reach everything from the Barbie bubble gum toothpaste to my credit card left on a desk. When do these creatures chill out?

Hi

Well adolescence has to be got through first :D

You have a very active dog who will probably be happiest training for a bit of work....... that can also tire them out more, as using their brains knackers them :) A good book to look at is Roy Hunter's "Nosework for fun" - fab for owners who have active dogs and want or need to do just a little with them.

Probably have to order it specially, try www.crosskeysbooks.com

Have fun

Lindsay

Lindsay

Is the Roy Hunter book specifically for Terriers, or would it suit working dogs too?

Hayley :)