So...Im in the park walking a male, 15 month old beardie. He is a very obedient dog and yet...suddenly he goes haring off after another dog. They are running around, not really that far from me but the beardie was obsessed. I kept calling him and calling him and he seemed oblivious. The bloke that owned this other dog completely ignored what was happening and continued to walk away from me and his dog went along in his direction too......along with my beardie. I had to run to catch up and finally caught them and got hold of my dog......this blokes dog was in heat!!!!!!!! and he was casually walking her around the park like nothing was happening!!!!!! And then he goes "I think he likes her"...well of course he bloody does!!!!
Some people are so stupid! Good thing I ran for him.

Some people are unbelievable Good job you caught up with them, you could still be running after them
Give a man a sniff of a sure thing............. :D
Sharon
X

dont wish to offend you but the bitch cant help being in season. There is nothing the owner can do (unless you think the bitch shouldnt go outside for 4 weeks)!! when kara was in season i obviously kept on her lead whenever other dogs were around and to be honest was very irritated by people leaving their dogs run well chase up around the park because they didnt have the common sense (even after i told them that she was on season) to put their dogs on the lead and walk the other way.

Obviously carrying on walking away was a but dumb but i can to be honest sympathise more with the guy walking the bitch than anything.

could of been a lot worse if hed stood still and waited for you------- . they might of been tied and turned--then youd probably get sued. ---as his was under control :D

I dont think the bitch was on a lead either so how was Steph supposed to know the bitch was in season and yes I walk my in season bitches but they get road work where other dogs are on leads aswell.I dont think the dogs owner was being either fair or responsible.Gillian

Oh please tell me you are joking Andy???
You expect everyone else to put their dogs on leads because your ONE dog is in season. Well Im sorry but a dog CAN still tie with your bitch even though she is on a lead you do realise this?? :CONFUSED: And yes I do think all bitches should be kept at home when in season, well unless of course you are waiting for an accident to happen, which it sounds like you do.

I dont have mine out while in season--im lucky enough to have a big enough garden to cope with a few weeks confinement-----but if i had to take one out, it wouldnt be to the park, id probably road walk it, as you shouldnt see many lose dogs on the streets----not forgetting a thick stick :D

Just to add my two-pennorth, having owned entire dogs and bitches, I would consider it very unkind to not take a bitch for exercise when she was in season. Yes, you have to be careful, and try to avoid times when other people are walking their dogs, but the idea of keeping her at home for the duration....!! I would expect the dogs, both male and female, to be under reasonable control.

It's called tolerance.

well put jeanie - picked your spot on the fence well and made sense lol

no, i expect them to exercise the same caution i do and whenever another dog is near put them back on the lead!!! ok the guy should have at least warned you so you could have given chase earlier.

if i came on here and told any1 i hadnt exercised my dog for 4 weeks you would quite rightly be disgusted.

If both animals are under control then no accidents would happen would they.

my point was that it was just as bad you letting your dog run off and blaming the man who was exercising his dog which happens to be in season for the fact that yours gave chase.

Hi Andy

you said 'i expect them to exercise the same caution i do and whenever another dog is near put them back on the lead!!!'

well a dog can smell a bitch in season for miles, he does not have to see her to give chace, this happened to me about 8 weeks ago, I left my dog off lead the same place i always do, he is very good and will not go far (he stayed very close cos he was on his own cos my bitch was at home in season) as soon as i left him off the lead he was off, at first i left him go cos i thought that he would be back but 30 seconds later he was still going so i chased him about 700 yards up the path and around the corner he was going for gold on this bitch that was not on her lead and no owner to be seen, well it was to late cos be the time i got there he had turned, then about 45 seconds later the bitches owner came up screaming at me (and this was not my fault)
well to make a long story short i paid for the bitch to have the morning after jab (the owner did not give a dam cos the bitch was also a stafford but i was not going to be part of an unplanned litter being born).

Natalie

PS i do walk me bitch when in season but it will be very late at night and on lead only most of the time it will be a short road walk

Zoe

What happens to the bitches in season that do not like going to the toilet in the garden, i have a GSD bitch she is now 6yr and since she was around 1 she would not use the garden she would wait all day, so now season or no season she will be taken out 4 times a day.
If you were in season would you like us to take away your convience of using the toilet, it think not.

Cordelia

But would you keep her on lead when you took her to the toilet and be watching where she was and careful of other dogs? THAT's the difference.

Wendy

i also take walks at different times when shes in season - seen too many stupid o'clocks lol. i do appreciate that a bitch in heat is a doggy magnet and theres not a lot anybody can do about it. I think its really unfair for anybody to think that a dog shouldnt be given any exercise though - mine would go mad!!

Anybody that lets a dog wander around on their own is irrisposible - especially when in season!!!

personally, if i came across another dog not on a lead i would do by best to keep them seperated and hang around until the owner caught up.

Was just a little irritated that anybody could blame the owner for a dog being in season and for giving them exercise.

Seasons are a fact of doggy life and have to be dealt with - preferably with out blaming the other party!!!

Think thats a little less ranty than the last post lol

I disagree - the most trained and reliable entire dog tends not to be so reliable when a bitch in heat is near. Someone walking a bitch in heat somewhere and at a time where other dogs are walking off lead (in a park, for example) is just asking for trouble.

Bitches are not always reliable either when in season. we had a 14 yr old Lab, who we thought frankly was past it, luckily I used to be a sprinter, as I had to rugby tackle her a warp speed when she spotted a boy she liked across the park (he was entire!)

When I have has entire bitches, I have either street walked early or late, or exercised in contained areas, friends large gardens or tennis courts

H

i have an entire bitch...when in season i walk her at 6 am when no other dogs are about and ensure good exercise with a ball, chasing, friends bitches etc in my garden. If she were to be accosted by a dog i feel it would be entirely down to my own fault.....i would have NO grounds to complain to the dogs owner. i wouldnt risk an unwanted mating at any cost.....terminating it would be ghastly.

My dogs are out at 6.20 every morning so they've had a good long run before I go to work. But the owner of the local (& only) village shop has an entire male Springer who is left to wander throughout the village. IF he were to catch any of my girls, I would lay the blame fairly & squarely at his door. The dog shouldn't be wandering, he has tried to bite me in the past which I have chased him off and basically he is a risk to traffic too. This has been going on for almost 5 years and yet his owner seems to be oblivious to the dogs wanderings.

I have a male dog of my own too and would never dream of letting him chase bitches, whether or not inseaon, like this.

When I first started rescueing dogs I was very niave. I believed the olds wives tail that the dog would get fat and would lose most of her spuck and so on if fix. Of course if the dog is properly taken care of this isn't true. Anyway I wouldn't fix my girls but I was very responsible when taking my girl out. I would only walk her during her season in parks where the dogs had to be kept on a leash and always during the times when their would be less dogs out. I think a dog should be walked every day even in season but I also believe in my being responsible. Which means for my dog to get the same amount of exercise she would normally get in the off leash parks I would have to take her for longer walks in the leash required parks. It can be a little inconvient but since i didn't fix them then I am excepting that inconvience. I don't think it was fair to keep her locked up but it also wasn't fair for me to let her run or walk in off leash parks and distract the male dogs. Plus it would be a change of senery.

NicoLJ

If you go to a park where all dogs have to be kept on leads then that is different. But I take my dog to some woods and you can not see around every corner as it is quite enclosed (luckily my dog has been castrated), Im sorry but a dog can smell a bitch in season from very far away and we can not, so for people to say owners with dogs that can not control their dog when he smells a bitch in season is irrisbonsible is ridiculous. I stick to my point when I say a bitch can still be mated if she is on a lead, and also I think not taking your bitch for a walk for 4 weeks is a lot less discusting than a load of unwanted puppies being born.

Just out of interest, Zoe, have you ever owned an entire bitch? Or an entire dog, for that matter?
:)

Are the anti-mate sprays any use at all? 4 weeks is a long time without a walk and not everyone is blessed with a big garden.

They're not brilliant - many dogs now recognise the smell as meaning there's a bitch in season! :rolleyes: The chlorophyll tablets are better.

As dogs can smell that there is a bitch in season from so far away, there is little point in keeping her 'confined to barracks' for the duration - the dogs will smell her anyway!

It's down to common sense - both dog and bitch owners have the right to exercise their animals properly, but both have equal responsibility to keep their animals under control.
:)

Yes JG I have. And Im sorry if I seem a bit harsh but Im fed up with all the 'mis-haps' that happen with puppies.

I've owned entire bitches for 11 years now - I don't walk them during seasons (well - not around the 'fertile period' anyway) and can honestly say - hand on heart - I have NEVER had a problem with local 'studs' - I contribute this to the fact that bacuse I don't walk them, they don't get the chance to lay down their 'come and find me' scent. BTW - I don't live out in the sticks - we are talking major towns/cities....

Thing is, problem wouldnt have occurred at all if BOTH dogs were neutered to start off with. I see lots of people who arent breeding their dogs and yet leave them entire/unspayed. :(

I don't see a problem with that - surgery is not something to be undertaken lightly. Reproductive organs are an integral and vital part of any animal, and not an optional extra!
:)

Unfortunately they are abused left right and center for profit, and left in their "rightful" place can be a huge part of the cause of many cancers and of course pyometra :) Not going to get into an argument on that though (each to their own) but having been a vet nurse and seen the benefits I would always neuter - its the responsible thing to do if you're not breeding (and for the right reasons of course). Because my new dog Ruby's womb was left in, she was abused and puppy farmed. She is now 6 with boobs that are likely to turn cancerous because of her previous owners lack of regard for her health, but she is spayed (thank God) *wink* What I meant by my post is that there are so many suggestions as to who was at fault for the dog chasing a bitch in season, when it all could be prevented (and not one person had suggested it). :)

can neglect cause cancer???????? hadnt heard that before,

In a way yes Dizzy, breeding over and over and over heightens the risk of mammary cancer, especially when her breasts are so ruined now (they hang right down and probably never will shrink). I'd be VERY surprised if Ruby didnt get mammary cancer, although I hate to say it. The vet agrees that she is at massive risk.

I didn't think it was feeding that had a negative effect on the mamary tissue but the hormones associated with seasons. the dominant hormone during lactation does in human studies at least have a beneficial effect. I took part in a studdy that showed that women who breast fed were less likely to develop breast cahncer than those who didn't. Again might have something to do with the fact that breast feeding women usuqally stop having periods (cycling) for a while.

I know what you mean, but with Ruby it goes way further than that - not just the lactating that put her at risk, but the huge size of her breasts (really horrendous) and the fact she had to be spayed mid season too :(

This post has interested me, I have a 15 week old bitch and when she went for her first vet check, the vet kind of assumed she would be being spayed as I said I would not breed from her, as JG has rightly pointed out surgery is certainly not something to be taken lightly and is in-fact a very scary experience for many owners. We have recently lost a bitch to mammary tumours - but not all bitches will be lost this way - surely we cant take out an organ just because we can and that way it cant be attacked by cancer??? My mothers BC X has just been spayed, who's to say she wont get incontinence problems as a result?? At the end of the day it is down to personal choice of the owner. As for walking bitches in season, if I decide not to spay I will continue to exercise my bitch morning and night, but I will be cautious! I am the one who chose a bitch and all that goes with her, so I will have to keep her on an extending lead perhaps and maybe exercise in less built up area's or do roadwork. Owners of entire dog's cant not let them off in case their is a bitch in season nearby surely? Dogs would never be let off if that was the case! I think we have to be sensitive to each other - the guy we were origionally discussing should have mentioned his bitch was in season or shown a bit more concern. But hey, thats just my opinion!
Sarah

Kathy,

"What I meant by my post is that there are so many suggestions as to who was at fault for the dog chasing a bitch in season, when it all could be prevented (and not one person had suggested it). "

It could also have been prevented - as well as the numerous incidents of dog bites mentioned on this Board - if owners of bitches and dogs kept their pets on leads when in public areas. No one suggested that either. Neutering is not the only option. Although I expect not allowing dogs off lead in a park is equally repugnant to many here as neutering.

Stacey

but how many poor unwanted pup are already in the world living in rescue homes or just sraying I think that people who don't want to breed there dogs should do the right thing and get there dogs fixed, and those people who do wish to breed make sure no misshaps happen!!!!!!

How about letting those who don't wish to breed make sure no mishaps happen either?! :rolleyes: There are more ways of avoiding unwanted matings than neutering!
:)

The problem is JG not all owners are responsible ones, and there is a vast deal of difference between a responsible owner with an unneutered dog and an irresponsible owner with an unneutered dog. People who dont neuter their pets through informed choice rather than ignorance are few and far between unfortunately :( Obviously you looked into the whole neutering idea and decided not for your dogs - fair enough, you obviously "take precautions" (pardon the pun). Even so though, accidents do happen, and especially with those who dont exercise caution (or dont care).

Edited to add: Unfortunately bulldogowners post about the springer says it all - thank God there are rescuers/saints in this world *sigh*

I agree absolutely, Kathy. What I find absolutely infuriating is the glib assertion that "all responsible owners neuter their animals". It is perfectly easy to be a responsible owner, have entire animals, and not have unwanted litters all over the place.

If people aren't willing to accept their responsibilities, maybe they'd be better off with a goldfish. No offence intended to anyone!
:)

I agree with your point too - I may be proneutering, but everyone is entitled to their choice. Believe me, I get as infuriated as you for the opposite reason - I am disappointed that neutered pedigrees dont get access to the show world as much for example (so I've been told, as to be honest I dont know a lot about showing dogs). I like the bit about the goldfish too *lol* - someone once said that if you cant be a responsible dog owner you should get a cat (not even going to tell you what I told them *lmao*)! :(

I have both entire dogs & bitches but have no intentions of breeding them & unless there is a medical need for it, thats the way they`re staying! :)

Christine, Spain.

My knowledge of dogs is very limited at the side of just about everyone on this forum so excuse my ignorance, I wonder why you think it wrong to leave a dog entire just because it isn't being used for breeding? I have a dog who is not being used for breeding but would not consider having him fixed, similarly I've not had children and don't intend to but would not put myself through the sterilisation process. If I had problems with my dog perhaps I would but I never have. What are the benefits of having him done?

Hi Sarah,
There are very few benefits to a dog of castration. In fact it is believed that castrated dogs are more likely to develop prostate cancer than entire ones. The supposed benefits all seem to be for the owner.

Hi Jean - would love to see the veterinary vidence to support that, as all vets I know say neutering lowers the risk massively :)

This is quite interesting, as is [link http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=574]this.[/link]
:)

It kind of leaves you wondering which to believe *lol* - it was good of you to post both sides, thanks. :)

There are lots of benefits for neutering pets. I'm not one to choose to neuter because of the benefits to me - I neuter because of the well known and proven health benefits. In a male dog these are that it removes the risk of testicular cancer (a common killer of older unneutered dogs) and prostate cancer, lowers the likelihood of them wandering or excaping/running off after a bitch which obviously puts them at risk of injury and accident, in most cases lessens male on male aggression (yes a behavioural reason, but lowers risk of fighting and injury etc). I'm sure there are more health benefits, so I will look into it more. For a bitch to be left unneutered, her risk of mammary cancer greatens EVERY time she is allowed to come into season, as is her risk of pyometra, a deadly (and sadly becoming more common in older unneutered bitches) womb infection which could be avoided altogether with spaying. Cancers of the reproductive organs are not as uncommon as thought, and that can also be avoided. Obviously the distress and discomfort of seasons is out of the window once spayed too. Did you know that if a bitch is spayed before her first season, her risk of mammary cancer is nearly nil?

Edited to add: I read the results of a US veterinary study the other week that showed that spayed bitches had no higher risk of becoming incontinent than an unspayed bitch (in fact the incidence was higher in unspayed bitches). Of course, a breeding bitch is more likely to have those problems.

All of these health benefits and thats even BEFORE I go onto the moral side of it. Unspayed bitches, unless locked up each time theyre in season are highly likely to get caught - being on a lead does not stop that (I'd like to see anyone try stopping a dog after a bitch in season *lmao*), I find it pretty irresponsible to suggest it as a preventative when there are so many pups in rescue that were created in just that way.
I DO believe its a personal choice, and I didnt for one minute say it was the ONLY solution to the first post. I was just surprised that on a forum as popular as this, not one person had mentionned neutering.
Jean - what are the reason for NOT neutering? Health benefits on an unspayed bitch etc?
Thanks
Kathy
xxx

Here-here KathyM, I agree with you about spaying if you don't intend to breed! Isn't it a safer world for the dogs/bitches too if they had been done, ie: maybe the lost/stolen lists wouldn't be as long???
Just another thought to add to the pile.

Just a thought, Jolanta, but how are dog-stealers going to tell if a bitch has been spayed or not?

I agree that most dog thieves wouldnt even look for a scar on a female, but on a male its pretty obvious at least *lol*. Unfortunately a lot of dog thefts are by someone who knows the dog in a small capacity, and many "prime" their victims by talking to the owners eg in the park etc to find out more and to work out when you're not in. I dont think spaying a bitch lessens her risk of being stolen though. The "lost" list would be a hell of a lot shorter though if male dogs werent running off after a bitch in season?

I see you point, I forget that there are a whole lotta cold and strange people out there. Let me put another spin on it then- Wouldn't there be a whole heap less unplanded litters in this world that eventally end up in the rescure centers? As there seems to be a lot of people that just say, oops after the fact!