We have a lovely 11 month old Border Collie girl. She is really keen and responds really well to training, as long at the training is focused around her most favourite squeaky toy.

We are currently taking her to training classes, where all the other dogs are food motivated. It doesn't matter how much we try or how we approach it, our BC will not respond to food when we are training her outside, she just ignores us.

As soon as we are back at home she responds far more to food treats. But when she is outside all she wants to do is run and play, and try to herd the rest of the training class!! The only way to get her attention is with her toy. Other people had advised that this is typical collie behaviour and that toys are far more valuable to them then food

Does anyone have any advice - as we are trying to teach her to walk to heel and food obviously isn't the answer!!

You have answer your own question reward with her toy. I had a similar problem he just wasn't motivated through anything until we discovered cocktail sausages and ensured he didnt eat before training so he was a little hungary now he is as good as gold (as long as you have some sausages)

Use the toy!!!!! Not all dogs are food motivated; I have two of the same breed; with one I use food the other I use a toy. The only caveat I would say is you would not be popular with most trainers/fellow classmates if you insisted on using a squeaky toy in a group! All the terriers and gundogs will be wound up to the sky!!!! Use a toy, but a quiet one!

What treats are you using?

For the treats try hot dog sausages or edam cheese (doesn't go so manky as normal cheese)

If toys are her thing and it is with my BC, then use a toy but keep it special just for training. I find a small raggy is ideal, it is easy to have a game with when she gets it right.

Regards
Sandra

Hello,
I have 2 Border Collies, one is 4 and the other is 18mths. The older one is a complete pig, he loves his dinner! He is also quite happy to play with his toy so we do a mixture of training, using the toy and treats.
My 18mth old is not keen on food (even her dinner). She will eat it, but would much rather have her bally. So we train her 95% using a toy. This has worked brilliantly for her as she is very motivated. The only thing we have used treats for is to get her presents for recall and retrieve more accurate, and we used a clicker along with the treats.
It sounds like you need a trainer who will use the methods your dog needs - in this case it isn't treats, but toys. Her progress wil be much slower if she is not enjoying her training as much as she could.
Char123

Have you tried liver? I make my own liver cake and both my dogs will sell their soul for it, (especially my Border collie.) If the toy is working i see no reason why you can't continue to use at (apart form the squeak of course) but i find some things are just easier to teach with food.

Hello - I have now joined the forum properly.

Thank you for all the suggestions. Its good to hear that we aren't the only one whos dog is not food motivated!!

The treats we have tried with our BC have been cheese, ham, tripe burgers, reward treats. She enjoys these treats at home - but not out when training as I explained.

It seems the way forward is to may be have a de-squeaked toy that we only use for training.

Would anyone recommend the use of target sticks?? (especiall when trying to get her to walk to heel)

Yes target sticks are excellent for teaching that sort of thing. I taught my dog to heel by getting her to follow my hand which is very similar....have you used a target stick before, or is your trainer introducing them to the class? :)

One thing you could try with your BC is to graduate the rewards ...... so get several toys and work out which ones she likes best, then make sure she only gets her fav. toy for excellent attentive work etc. In efffect you are gradign the toys - Top fav, second fav., etc :)

Lindsay

What is a target stick and how would it be used? Sorry if Im being a little slow.
Would clicker training help your BC? I saw a post on it a few days ago the poster was very enthusiastic about its results.
As I said earlier in my previous post. I dont feed Mr B before we go to training so he he is a little hungary and willing to work for a sausage or livercake. Recently he has been quite happy to work for a little tickle.

A target stick is really any type of longish stick that you teach the dog to 'target.' I just use a piece of wooden dowling You start off my holding the stick close to the dog and when they give the end a little sniff with their nose you click and treat. (You have to get the timing right so that you click the moment they touch the stick and not after.) You continue this until you can eventually give a command 'touch' and they will touch it with their nose. They will eventually follow the end of the stick whereever it goes. they catch on quickly and seem to love it! Once they are following the stick you can use it to teach sit, down, stand, heel, twist, anything really. The good thing about it is that the dog is not just following food, which is really useful for dogs that won't do anything unless there is a piece of food stuck in their face!!!

Doesn't even have to be a stick - you can teach the dog to mark your clenched fist.......

I've never used a target stick before, but have read about them and our trainer has mentioned the use of them.

I think this may be the only way we can get our BC to walk to heel.

I can imagine that it will still be a little bit tough as she is so stubborn and if she doesnt want to do something she will ignore you. It very hard to stop her pulling on the lead. We have tried stopping everytime she pulls, but she doesnt stop.

The only time she walks to heel is as we are nearing our front door - or walking back to the car after we have been out, so it takes longer to get there!!.

I think my dog is too clever for me!!

I think pulling on the lead is a Border Collie trait. Mine does lovely competitive heelwork, but on the lead up the road.........no chance. She is so good with everything else I must admit I have given in a bit, luckily I don't have to road walk her very often.

My old BC was the same, he eventually started walking beside me when he reached about 10 years :)

Can't see how a target stick would help with roadwork, unless you are prepared to look a bit silly, even then you would have to keep clicking, stopping and treating.

You could try a halti, not that it worked for me I ended up with a kangaroo on the end of the lead. We compromised in the end, I left the halti off, she didn't pull too hard. :D

Sandra

Thank you SandraH!!

Its nice to know we are not the only BC owners to have this problem when trying to walk on lead. Every morning I drive past a border collie pup walking perfectly to heal - yet as soon as I take mine out she seems to be in a real rush to get somewhere!!

We did try a halti - and it worked so well that our BC refused to move until we took it off again!! I shall just have to practise with her.

You've no idea how much better I feel, too! Sparky (6 month BC) does wonderful heelwork in training, and around the house/garden, but completely shows me up whenever we go out of the front door - and all the neighbours shake their heads and smile at me sympathetically as if to say "Well, we warned you about Border Collies". We are now trying a halti, having tried half check collar, mikki harness and gentle leader. It's early days, but it does seem to be helping. My main problem is if anyone else is with us, then he seems to know my full attention isn't on him and pulls like mad. Like you, I also watch enviously as other BCs go trotting along the road past our house and wonder if we'll ever get there. Suppose it's just a case of not giving up, and accepting imperfections!
Tracy

Don't worry you are definately not on your own! Despite almost two years of training, my BC still pulls really badle and now i have finally given up and started using my halti. She hates it but it is the only way i can take her out. She walks nicely to heel in classes though! THe odd thing is that my retriever is nearly 8 months old and walks really nicely to heel most of the time. Definately must be a collie thing. (My boss has to use a halti too.) They are too clever for their own good though. I tried turning back everytime she pulled, and she would walk really nicely, almost hanging back because she knew that i would turn back to the way we are going eventually and then she would pull again. I suppose that i should have just continued walking back, but it seems a shame to end the walk when she is walking nicely. You just can't win against the mind of a BC!!

Border Collies truly have very entertaining personalities!!

How did both of you train your heelwork? I would like some pointers - to ensure that I am going down the right route!!

I am basing my training of heelwork around a toy which has been de-squeaked.

Any do's and don'ts??