i know every one here is very anti breeding if dogs have any problems but i would really like to know something i am in two minds wether or not to breed from my gsd bitch she is about 1.5-2yrs as of yet i have not had her hip scored elbow scored or eye tested and unless these r brilliant when i do do them i wont even dream of it

i havent had her from a puppy and she did not come from a known breeder to me or i doubt any of u

the thing is she has a beautiful temperment seems very capeable to be bred from looks stunnin i have been told by hundereds of people that "she is a pedigree no question" including by my vet on top of all this she is a very very fast learner

the main problem is i have no papers for her altough being promised by the breeder many times and have given up on getting them

i have been told by many people that if i did breed from her they would love a pup because of her looks and temp mainly wether she came with papers or not

in addition to this i am not sure if she has had a litter or not but i think she has if she sees a teddy bear or somerthing otf the sort she will nurse it licking it and lieing next to it etc she also pays alot of attention to dolls of pups in windows etc when they are up against the glass she will lick at the glass am i going madf or could it be that she lost a litter of pups

any advice would be greatly appreciated criticizm also welcome but do it gently!!!!!!!!!!!

1 more thing how do i add smileys ?????

Ahh rob now youv done it . there gunna b on ya like a pack of wolves :P
I think your going to breed her anyway .if she looks good has no health probs why not try to get the papers find her mother and farthers name.then ask kennel club who may be able to help
And if your going to do it well better do it proper .. make a list of who will want a pup and decide if you can give these pups a home if you cant! dont do it!!!
find a really nice dog to breed her with. i know if u want to breed her you will anyway :) this is a >champsdog< message boad. i do wish you luck with you posts :) girls be gentil with him :)
Ops i better add boys too we have a few :)

Ahh rob now youv done it . there gunna b on ya like a pack of wolves

Not exactly a helpful comment

lovelady--you should perhaps think of doing hands on hip scoring, -----infact they could just describe the dog and you could score it :rolleyes: --this dog maybe a lovley pet-------but!!!!! its not kc registered, therefore cant have the relevant tests--to tell her if she looks good and has no health problems????? of course she looks good --its there pet!!! as for health problems------sorry but its much more than just looking at the outside :(
i think the dogs best as it is, a loved pet,

Could I just ask why you can't have tests done if its not KC registered?

Because the hip score system is done through the KC and the BVA not sure about elbows.

you can have dogs hip scored etc if not kc registered. We do several Am Bulls at the practice I work at.

And who does the scoring not the BVA panel as far as I know. If it is just the opinion of the vets doing the x-ray it's not worth the bother as they are notorious at getting it totally wrong.

Hello

I would not rely on friends and family to much IF you did decide to breed her, the fact of the matter is i would feel slightly dubious that the breeder never sorted out the dogs paperwork for you - makes me wonder if the dam was bred more than once in one year.
Anyways it would be pointless even considering breeding her without her papers, all i ask you is to look around various rescues, how many german shepards do you see in them?
My local one has quite a few, and they are young and old dogs, do you really want to possibly add to those statisics?
Im trying as hard as i can to be nice, without distressing you too much, but there are quality german shepards for sale out there with all their relevant paperwork and kc registered.
I am sure your girl is lovely (i happen to like german shepards) but you should just leave her as she is and enjoy her.
I am not anti dog breeding, but it should be done proporly and you have no history from your girl at all - so it wouldnt be a step in the right direction as far as i am concerned (please dont take that the wrong way).
Dean :)

Hi Robert,
Can't help with the breeding I'm afraid as I'm not a breeder but for the smileys :) click on help at the top of the page and that will tell you how.

Kath.

Sadly the thing is without papers you do not know her back ground, and within her background she may have all sorts of problems including epilepsy which is fairly common within GSD's. As she has no papers you are going to have a job to find a sire who has and is well connected so to speak. You will be producing puppies having know idea if they will be healthy or if they in turn are carrying the genes for a hereditary condition. You will to all intent be producing mongrels as without background information every pup will be a lottery ticket, some people who buy will have a winner others may not and some will get the wooden spoon.

To hip score I believe you have to have a KC registered dog. Eyes can be checked not sure about elbows but there are a lot of things you can't check for, Epileptic fits & von Willebrand's being just 2 of a long list of congenital disease your bitch or the stud may be carrying.

You have the correct idea that to breed for good temperament is the first consideration but after that you will be in the dark and even that good temperament is not for sure if there is a problem in her background you know nothing about.

Hope for the sake of the pups you may produce and the people who may buy those pups you will think again.

Sorry, but I hope you don't breed from her for all the reasons above. If you do, you will amazed by the magical way all these people who would like a puppy from her disappear!

Sad, but true Anwen. In my breed, we have a network of owners who let people come to meet their dogs. So many leave, really wanting a puppy, meet a breeder, go on their list and then not a word is heard until the breeder contacts them to confirm the bitch is pregnant, and find they have changed their minds! :(
Would also like to point out to original poster, that without information on your girls breeding, you cannot tell which lines will be right. You could be creating a potential health problem.

thankyou everyone for your helpful advice i really do appreciate it.
i dont think i will breed from her but do you know if there is any way i will be able to find out who her parents are or if she has any tests done and anything else the papers may show it would be intresting as when i bopught her she was around a year old and was told i would get papers but dont trust the breeder as far as i can throw and geuss wot i havent i am not to worried as i never purchased her with the intent of breeding her oh and just to let you know she is a belgium s d

the main thing that worries me is i bought her off of a gypsy and he had only had her a week i saw her and basically saw the condition of her coat she was filthy and looked like she had been through hell like a mongrel etc and i didnt dare put her n e where near my labs gave her a bath and brush and bang she was a gsd well bsd same difference :) do u think if she did have a healthy litter it would mean she would stop being so sympathetic to other dolls of dogs in windows etc worrying

oh and also i am not after the money at all and if i knew they were going to good homes would be willing even to give them away

i just think it would be a shame if i didnt carry her genes on to other pups

once again does any one know how i would get papers or any information on her would i have to find the breeder if so is there any other way and what do i ask him/ her

Robert the trouble is you don't know what her genes are carrying, it could be all sorts of heredity problems and would you want to know that the pups you are responsible for breeding could suffer from some incurable problem and that the people you 'gave' them to could be in for years of pain and expense trying to help their free puppy through life, only to give up and take the dog to the nearest rescue centre where the dog would be destroyed because sick dogs can’t be re-homed.

OK I have painted the worse picture but the truth is you just don't know, and you could also be putting your much loved bitch at risk just to produce what can only be very risky pups.

a year ago took on an unwanted,not to healthy Belgian shepherd...
fell in love,had to take her home and give her the cuddles she deserved.
Now after lot's of vetinary care and two Cruciate ligament op's,she's finally on the road to recovery.
As you know,she'll never ever be as active as she ought to be but iv'e made sure she's
loved loads and is as comfortable with the pain as possible.
If only the people that breed her had taken genetically inherited health issues seriously.
In a year iv'e seen £3,ooo plus, go into the vets till,to me that's unimportant but you do need to know in advance exactly what you are taking on.you are right.

How about getting her a whole lot of teddies so she can just play happy families?

ROFL  Thanks still giggling :)

once you get her speyed she will stop the mothering instincts. It s fairly likely she will be prone to phantom pregancies if you dont!

Hiya, GSD/BSD same difference?  What sort of Belgian is it as there are several.
Our Belgium shepherd is nothing like a German.More like a big black furry teddy.
she like yours is intelligent,attractive,affectionate,loyal,loving-all the  qualities are there.

However we could not possibly dream of breding from her as in reality we have no history
or papers and although she looks and behaves beautifully ,she is actually
unwell,unfit&overweight,then theres her hips and back legs(another story altogether)

Having owned a Belgium Shepherd,I'd so love to have a baby one just like her.
But i would make sure it's parents were 100% in every way.looks and temperament
are important yes but a good healthy background is a must.Perhaps then the pups would
stand a chance of a long,happy,healthy life.

thankyou very much always wondered how to do that tried all sorts of things

She sounds like a lovley dog and I'm hoping that you appreciate her.

I have to aggree with everyone else and advise you against breeding - even though she might be the perfect dog you can't be 'furthering the breed' when she isn't kc registered and has no papers :( Sad but true.

Count yourself lucky to have found such a good tempered and adorable pet and the next time people comment on how they'd love one like her point them in the direction of the local rescue centre... sadly these are brimming with gsd's of all ages and abilities.

The only real reason you could have for wanting pups from her is to make money and that's the worst reason. Maybe you should consider getting her spayed, this might help with her 'puppying' soft toys and remove temptation at the same time? You'd never forgive yourself if you were to lose her due to breeding from her. :(

Sadly, if you dont trust the person who bred your bitch, you will not be able to find out anything about her. The breeder is the only one who knows who her parents are.

buy her the best dolly from the window-------less risky,

ok then thank you all very much for your help i wont mate her was tempted though :(

do u think if i was to go and pester him he would give in and give me some info on her like was she nicked would be heart broken if she was and she obviously had had alot of training pumped into her so i doubt it was him

he never even had a name for her he said call her and she will come i said call her what and he had no idea nor did this kid who was workin for him very upsetting to see some a******e like that with such a wonderful dog

oh and i will buy her a doll n e ideas (i aint going to harrods they cost about £60 she would give it to my labs and there would be a doll with 1 eye no nose and 1 leg ) and they say u cant buy happiness :) spose u cant unless ur a lab and ur owners got a massive pocket and u still have all ur teeth :)

:( I suppose she could have come from a dodgy background and finding out would be the risk you take if you pump him for more information :(

Maybe you could have your vet check for a microchip next time she's there, as lots of people are using them these days.

I really wouldn't know what do do in your situation 'ignorance is bliss' as they say.

Hi Robert,

For your own curiousity, if you want to find out how good a representative she is of the breed, from a structural perspective, I would take her to a Belgium Shepherd breeder - one that shows dogs -- and ask her or him to take a look at her for you.

When I got my first GSD everyone in my neighborhood that saw her thought she was gorgeous. She was a purebred and registered with the Kennel Club. I got no end of compliments about her appearance. Her temperament was solid as a rock and she had more brains than most people. It was only years later when I got my second GSD puppy, from a very knowledgeable breeder, that I realized she was not a good representative of the breed. She had a plush, but very open coat. Her head was not the right shape (she was "appleheaded"), her ears were too broad ... and so on. It didn't matter to me in terms about how I felt about my dog, but it was a real education to me in terms of understanding dogs and good breeding. In other words, what friends and neighbors think about a dog often turns out to be different than how a breed specialist would evaluate the same animal.

As others have said, please do not breed your bitch. First, you will not find a reputable owner of a stud dog who is willing to use him with your bitch. Second, breeding is a huge responsibility. Third, pregnancy is natural .. but that does not mean it isn't hard on a bitch with potentially disastrous consequences.

By the way, I think it's great that you gave your shepherd a wonderful home.

Stacey

Rob already said he wouldent breed her unless hips were fine. and Iwas actully joking with him since he said be gentil with him , so chill!!
I have to giggle at that i mean how more obviouse can you get then two smileys with the words girls be gentil . lol I think we need to joke a bit more here

Why do people keep saying GSD when this person said it was a BSD ?? they are two different breeds, but then how does any one know what it is it, could be a cross GSD/BSD with out it,s papers it could be any thing,( IMO ) it should not be bred from. you will do what you want any way.:-) the other thing is some one must have loved her once and may be the doll thing is what she remembers from happy days!!!! it sounds as if you care for her so why make her go through whelping yet another litter.

I believe all bitches that haven't been spayed do this with dolls/teddies, mostly it happens after having a season and they aren't pregnant.
(May be wrong but my friend's dane does this).
With regards to breeding, i'm glad you've changed your mind. Breeding from a rescue dog IMO is heartless, the dog has already been through enough.

Sarah

Mygirl, I've had several bitches, both spayed and unspayed, and none of them have ever 'mothered' toys, even when having phantom pregnancies...
:)

What a shame rob that its turned out this way for you. I must say that you should not breed from her no matter how lovely she is. Or find the breeder and get the papers off them.
Maybe thats something you can think about for the future. When you get another dog make sure they are kennel club registered and have excellent pedigree. Maybe you just have to forget it this time around and have your girl spayed.
It is never a good idea to buy a dog in the circumstances you got your girl from. On the other hand she has a loving family that adores her so much. Just enjoy her for who she is.
Nutkin :-)

In his original post he says gsp, which can only mean one thing to me.

In his first post, Robert says she is a gsd, but on the 16th Nov he says <<she was a gsd well bsd same difference>>

They're completely different breeds, Robert! Until you know which she is, how on earth can you possibly consider breeding? :rolleyes:

When did the BSD arrive, bit of a worry if we do not even know which breed we are mateing, talking about or even owning?

all i can really say is thank you all so much for your help i will not breed from her is it just me who always gets problems with dogs i got 2 labs who both appeared fine at first then i realised the dog had a cataract in his eye and i haD HAD HIM FOR 2-3 WEEKS AND THE BREEDER SAID I COULD SWAP HIM AND he would be destroyed. IT MADE ME FEEL so sad TO EVEN IMAGINE THIS AND COULDNT do it. the bitch is fine an anoying little dog when she can be but other than that fine.

oh and the difference between a Belgium shepard dog and german shepard dog is that gsds are shorter have longer fur are fatter and the bsd is taller shorter hair and HOPEFULLY! thinner but i never found that out till just recently when i can find digital camera will be happy to post a pic if some one doesnt mind explaining nearer to the time

oh i think bsd's are more likely to get artheritis in their legs as well if that helps any one

corso girl dont worry relax !!!! i wont breed rom her at all

has any one seen a bsd out of curiosity

i always thought the doll thing would be that she has been bred from and had all her pups removed from her too early asnd ith is only puppy dolls if its a human doll it will be ripped up

when i first got her she also appeared terrified of my dad when she saw him she would run away and hide but if i was in bed and he came in my room she would growl bark snarl etc (rather worrying)

could this all be down to what happend to her in the past if so im happy im not her

on top of this out of curiosity how do u know soooooooooooooooooooooo much about dogs it really is amazing is there anything you dont know!!!

one more time before anyone gets angry or forgets
!!!!!!!!!!!I WONT BREED FROM HER I PROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think that just because im an annoying little b*****d i will go to the breeder and ask him for the papers as i was promised them but i just want to find out even just who her parents are.

if you are still awake thank you all for reading this it really iss helpful
ROBERT

:( There's more difference to BSDs and GSDs than that, Robert! Colour, for a start!

Have we met your sister here?

belgian groenendael

belgian laekenois

belgian malinois

belgian tervuren

german shepherd

here you are robert have a look at these and see if there's a resemblence :) :)

sorry one of the links hasn't worked

okay she seems to have the build of a malinois but the markings of a tervuren i dont know if that helps

no my sister has never been onto this site what makes you think she has???

sorry i called him a breeder i dont know what he is he had loads of gsds and bsds i geuss. Dont no much else about the breeds they were but he seemed to be selling jack russel puppies at the same time as gsd puppies he said he was going to sell me an older dog which he hadnt been in possesion of long i think he said he had had it a week or so so would you call him a breeder??? i spoke to the rspca after as i was concerned for the dogs condition but was told he wasnt harming them and that he was a "settled gypsy"

he promised me that when he got the papers for her he would send them on to me and i still havent even got a phone call :(

oh just to let you know i wasnt going to breed from her immediatly i was just curious to see what you would think about it if u aggreed then i would of done alot more research into the breed before even thinking of doing it you see i have never mated a dog before so know hardly anything sorry if i sound stupid im trying to answer your questions as well as i can but despite owning dogs all my life dont know much about mating them

also im sorry lindsay that is what i was told that bsd's are more likely to get artheritis than gsds but could be wrong

Malinois and Tervueren are exactly the same (or should be) except for the length of the coat.

The person you bought the dog sounds like a dealer to me. Breeders worthy of that title do not operate in such a slapdash manner. for a start they would have given you lots of information about the dogs heritage, of which they would be proud, and had all paperwork ready for you. If KC reg were unavailable then you should have had a signed letter to say he would send them on once he had them back from the KC (if he was transfering the dogs ownership to himself). You should also have had at least a 3 Geneartion pedigree (most people give five) giving all the ancestry.

There are two Belgian Shephewrd Breed Clubs. It is worth joining one of them as they hold shows, educational events, and produce publications which will help with studying the breed.

I'm impressed you know what a terveuren looks like, Robert, if you were going by that link!
:D

i do know a LITTLE bit more about computers than i do breeding dogs so accessed it through the site amazing isnt it i know something :D

to be honest i thought the exact same thing about her being stolen so i took her to the police to see if she was tattooed (did have some rather weird green paint which i thought was water paint because it moved when she was wet also she wasnt chipped and ill be getting her chipped very soon!!!

bearing in mind he had loads of dogs horses ducks chickens etc and he was in london Leyton what do you think???

Sounds suspiciously like a stolen dog too :( Not by you, by the man who sold her and promised papers on an adult dog then didnt pass them on - there have been lots of pedigree dog thefts recently. :( Strange how a man would sell a dog he's only had for a week, and get confused about what blinkin breed it is :(

I'm a little confused, in the beginning you said that you got the dog from a breeder who was going to give you the papers, but then you said she was from a gypsy at a year old. Also another difference between a BSD and a GSD, one originates from germany, the other from Belgium! GSD won't necessarily have longer haired becuase they can be short haired surely? What type of BSD is she as they are all different?

BSDs are certainly not more likely to get arthritis in their legs ...... they are normally very healthy and have less health problems than GSDs. And yes :D they can have long and short and rough/wire coats..... and are square in outline whereas GSDs are rectangular in outline :)

Lindsay