Just over a month ago we bought a 16 month old ex show cocker bitch from a breeder. She is a pretty little tri colour, very tiny for her age so no longer suitable for the show ring. She is fine with my husband and myself but if other people especially children put their hands out to stoke her, she screams out. I can only think that she has suffered a bad experience before we got her. Our other cocker growls quite nastily at her when she does this . Has any one any advice as to how we should handle the situation? She has learnt so much in the last few weeks. She had never been out on a lead near any passing road traffic and she was cowering away initially but now is fine.
Our other cocker is extremely friendly and loves to meet people.
If a dog has been shown don't they get used to meeting lots of people?

Regards
Sue

Hi Sue

Show Cockers "should" be used to being handled, but that doesn't mean to say that she liked it! It does sound from what you say tho that she has had a bad experience with children. I take it that she has never attempted to snap or bite? If so I reckon it's a game of patience, time, gentleness and encouragement.

Rather than strangers/children going up to her, let them have a treat and encourage her to go to them. Make sure they don't stand over her but come down to her level. Let her see your other Cocker get cuddles and treats etc. Try to give her time alone with you and other people, ie without the other cocker around, but watch the other one doesn;t get jealous and make sure that one get's time alone too.

It's going to be a slow process I think. It can be difficult re-homing any adult dog as it will come with a history. Do let us know how you get on.

Pam n the boys

Hi Pam
She squeals and pulls away at the same time ,just as if she has been hurt. It is Misty that sounds as if she is going to bite Ginty(no name change) but fortuantely doesn't. As you have suggested we will try and have her in a controlled situation. It is quite a shock for the children because they know that they have not touched the dog. We fortuntely or unfortunately have not got young children any more, but the neighbours' children all loved to see Misty.
Sue

Whilst Pam's advise is good - if she's that frightened you'll have to be careful she doesn't think you're encouragement is rewarding her behaviour. I'd be more tempted to invite a really reliable neighbours child around for a while to help you. Ask them to ignore the dog, sit on the floor and have a treat ready for her if she does approach for the child to give. If she's that scared then it's going to take a carefully planned approach to avoid giving her the wrong message. once she's used to this child (which may take many sessions) then see if you can find another child (perhaps a sibling of the first) to come and do the same. The important thing is that she should never feel threatened and should always have a safe place to retreat to should she feel inclined (which she doesn't have when out on the lead - unless you pick her up, and then you run the risk of her 'learning' that behaviour to get the elevated position). When she's comfortable with them in the house, go with them for walks and see if their friends can help you in the same way - only treat if she approaches them on her own terms - otherwise they ignore her.

HTH

Fran

Sue

Fran is right - if she is that frightened - then you do need to be careful that she gets the treat for the right behaviour. This is sad. It will take time.

got my finger's crossed for you

Pam n the boys

I don't think Ginty has necessarily had a bad experience with children - it's more likely that she has had NO experience of children at all. It could be that coming from a show kennel, she has been living outside in kennels & will have had v limited experience of the outside world, except for perhaps the odd visit to a ringcraft class. I know this is a common complaint about dogs/puppies that come from a kennel environment - puppies need to meet all types of people including children while they are still young. If they don't get this experience, then quite often they will react with extreme fear when they first encounter children as an adult. Some show kennels of course do take the time to socialise their puppies but not all of them do - going to the occasional show now & again does not really prepare dogs for living in the real world. I have seen a few Cockers behave perfectly in the show ring due to expert handling but outside of the ring, they can be a bag of nerves :-(
I'm sure with a lot of hard work, you will overcome Ginty's aversion to children - it's just going to take time

Jane

Excuse my ignorance (again!) but what are show kennels? Does it mean that the dogs are kept in kennels just to be shown at dog shows. I wouldnt have thought so but just wondered. I imagined show dogs to be pets that were tidied up for shows such as Crufts etc. Am I wrong? As you can see I know nothing about showing dogs at all. Many thanks Gina.

Hi Gina
Show dogs come from a variety of backgrounds. Many, like my boys, do live in their owners houses as pets, much fussed and molly-coddled :D, and are also shown. Believe me, there is a bit more than just tidying them up for a show!. However, the other extreme is those that do live in kennels and are literally just brought out for the show. Many serious show people, do a halfway between the two.

This is one of the sad sides that there is to showing - you always have those for whom the winning is paramount - not the wellbeing of the animal or the breed. On the other-hand you have those for who winning is important - but not as much as the health and happiness of their animals. Sadly it's like anything in this life - you always have those who give it a bad name by their extreme behaviour which is not condoned by the majority.

I struggle with this myself at times, when I hear of the sad cases of show dogs who have no social skills etc and who clearly have no quality of life - all in the name of a title. For myself, I am still very new to showing and have learned so much over the past year or so. I know that I love my boys for the dogs that they are and for what they bring to our family life. Their success in the show ring is a bonus and if I ever truly felt that they weren't happy or that they were suffering because of it, I would stop immediately. I show then because I am so proud of them, they are good examples of the breed and it gives me the chance to meet like-minded people who are also potty about Cockers. If we win that's great - if not - no big deal, the best boys always come home with me. For others tho, it is all in the winning.

hth

Pam n the boys - who did very well today :)

Hi Pam. Yes I thought that was the case, i.e. that most people show their dogs but treat them as pets foremost. Sorry didnt mean a bit if tidying up for shows was all that you do just keeping it short and sweet LOL. I feel really sorry for the dogs that are kept in kennels and brought out just for showing - how can anyone enjoy just doing that and not enjoy their dogs for themselves as well (what happens if they dont come up to expectations?) You sound like you are having a whale of a time with your boys. Best of luck bet you are proud of them when they do get a prize!! I hope you let us know how they get on. Have you any pics that can download? Not sure if there is anywhere on this site for people to show pics of their dogs (like I saw on one site today when I went cruising when I couldnt get onto this board earlier) but it would be nice to see some of the members' dogs wouldnt it? Regards Gina.

P.S. Perhaps if there isnt Admin could think about having a page or whatever it is called (forum?) for this purpose? I have been into some of the breeders pages but cant always see photos so dont know what some of the breeds I havent heard of look like. Oh dear I am changing the subject somewhat LOL :o

hello gina , while there are some people that keep their dogs in kennels all the time, I would hope that there would not be very many, most show people that I know show their pets, Its just that the pets happen to be a good ambassador for their breed and they want to prove their worth,. that is again in my case. I do have kennels and i put my dogs to bed in them at night, and turn the heat lamps on . they live in and out of the house if you see what i mean. they are allowed walk in and out as they wish , they seem to like their own space. im strictly speaking about my dogs Gina. It is also good for me to have a place to put them if im going out ,bullmastiffs really like to chew.and it is not the greatest of things to come home to a wrecked home . so if they have their own homes , then they can be safe as well . and not have to go to vets for foriegn items to be removed from their stomach.I just feel since I built[well the builder] them that i am more relaxed , It is also good when the grandchildren are in as they are so small they could well get up to mischief with one of the dogs , and it is not right to leave a child alone with any dog. I have to say I deplore the practise of locking up poor dogs all day it is unnatural. but a happy medium suits me . excuse my ramblings gina , ive sidetracked the issue ,a few times ,best wishes mari

Mari. Sounds excellent to me. You must have great fun with your dogs. I hope you also let us know how your dogs get on at their shows as I for one would be very interested. Seems Pam has had a good day. Perhaps she will let us know where, when and what too !!! Regards Gina

gina , you are a refreshingly sweet girl , im sure everyone here will be only too glad to help you mari

Hi Pam

I agree that show dogs come from a variety of backgrounds but I don't think that breeders who don't socialise enough are necessarily those for whom winning in paramount (though there are a few of these!) or necessarily "bad" people - what happens is that gradually they keep more & more dogs until they have too many to be able to give individual attention to & so the dogs are left in kennels for longer & don't get taken out as much as they should - this is particularly true if breeders hang on to their "oldies" instead of rehoming to pet homes (as some do) & if they carry on keeping a puppy or two from each litter they breed. I know a lot of people who are like this - they just have too many dogs!! I wouldn't say this is extreme or unusual behaviour in the show world - it's all too easy for numbers to creep up & all to difficult for some people to realise they have too many dogs to cope with :-(

Jane

It just goes to show that it is always better to ask questions than jump to conclusions about things that "one" (ohhhh!!) doesnt know a lot about such as show kennels. I am learning an awful lot lately and loving every minute. Thanks Gina :o

congratulations ,pam n the boys , on your wins today i wish you many more good days mari