if enyones have trouble with training there dogs Use a Clicker my lab pup was MAd and uncontrol able and ever since using a clicker she has been a angle (well most of the time) not only can she do the basics in training she can now do some Cool tricks eg counting has enyone else had such success with them?

I found it helped to sit/paw/stay/down, inside but outside she'd take no notice.

Sarah

I found it ok for stuff like to get my Lab to wag her tail more in the ring (that's right... get a Lab to wag her tail more! She was soooooo serious in wondering what I wanted I had to click it, worked well.)

Good for tricks I think, got her to bow using a clicker too which was fun. It's interesting to see the lightbulb comes on when the dog *gets it.* I don't use it much, but I can see how useful it can be.

~Sharon :)

I think its brilliant, i have used it for both my dogs for both obedience classes and agility and found it to be excellent. It doesn't seem to work for some people but i think it makes training so much easier. Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say and my 20 month old collie has her silver KC test on tuesday and my 7 month old retriever has her bronze then too, so i guess we shall see...

Are you allowed to use them in the ring? I didn't think it was allowed. I have sent off for a beginners clicker pack, to use on my unruly collie rescue, but it never occured to use it on my Jacks for their ring behaviour. Hmmm...

Caroline

Karen Pryor has a book called Click to Win specifically on clicker training for the showring. You would not be allowed to use the clicker in the obedience/agility ring during competition though and it would be frowned on in the Show ring.

I looked at that book on Amazon, but it was 4-6 weeks waiting time so instead I went for her other book 'don't shoot the dog' as it would be delivered quicker.

Do you recommend the 'show ring' book? You say it would be frowned upon in the showring (which was my understanding) so i take it her book works on framing behaviours that can then be used in the ring, without the clicker? I often 'click my tongue' in the ring to get my dogs attention, so why is using a clicker any different... The neighbouring dog in the ring is surely just as likely to get distracted by the bait in my hand.... Sorry, working through the answers in my head at the saem time as typing the question.
I think i'll work with the book I've ordered, and look into the other one once I've got a better idea about all this 'clicking' lark. ;o)

Caroline

It is probably available at Crosskeys Books. Most people use food in the showring at some point therefore you can choose your "click" to be a signal or sound. A lot of people believe that using a clicker with other dogs is distracting but as you use eye contact with your clicker you can effectively have a whole room full of people "clicking" away with no misunderstandings. :) The showing book concentrates on things like self stacking, movement etc

Thanks, that makes sense. I will look into that book

Caroline

I never took the clicker in to the ring, ever!

My lab would stand in front of me, looking at me with tail up, just not wagging it. (I had bait in my pocket which she knew I had.) She is normally a very happy girl and wags her tail a lot, just not at that point!

Entirely my fault, I found out I had been too serious with her as a pup and saying Staaaaaand... so she did, all serious like, bless her. (I know better next time!)

So at home I *clicked* a wag, adding a cue, "show me (your tail)" so I could say "show me" in the ring to her and she would wag and be "on her toes".

I conditioned the dog... gave a click... then treated.

Later... she wagged... at anything... I click, she looked for treat.

Did this a few times..... and she started to wag her tail on purpose! I added my cue then didn't have to click anymore as she had learnt what I wanted.

Thanks

A very enlightening post. My clickers arrived in the post last night, and I can't wait for my books to arrive so that I can get started with my unruly collie. I did order the Karen Pryor 'Click to Win' from Crosskeys yesterday too, so hopefully I can improve my jacks in the showring too!

Thanks

Caroline xxx

:(

What's up Sam? Surely any method that trains a dog without hurting or scaring it has got to be okay?

Maybe Sam's just scared that folk will find that building a trusting relationship with your dog makes the older techniques redundant..........

I might be wrong but i think Sam sees clickers as sort of circus trick training? (Correct me if i am wrong, Sam :) )

I love the clicker because it has taken me and my dog further in training than anything i have achieved before. My dog also loves it :)

It's based on the science of operant conditioning so is very viable as a method of training :D

Lindsay

I have used a clicker sucessfuly with three of my dogs. The others werent unsuccesful I just didnt use it. I have it for basic training and then for retrieving, recall etc. I like using them because it makes the dog use its brain to fathom out what you want and certainly for the Bracco that seems to satisfy his mind set.
Diane

hi everyone, where can i get a clicker from and are they expensive? Having training problems at home with my lab at the moment, whenever anyone comes around he jumps up them, dirty poors the lot, if i put him out he barks to come in, then i feel really bad for shutting him away, he also kept on licking my year old neice which my sister didnt like, i found it all really embarrasing and ended up feeling really upset for shouting at my lab. I have rang bark busters this evening, anybody know anything about them. Any help on above probs would be appreciated! He has also started chewing at 6 months, and he showed me his teeth the other day, not sure if he was playing or getting angry?? feeling a little helpless at the mo!!

You can get clickers from most pet shops and places such as pets at home quite cheaply. I got mine from my trianing club for £2.50. The best place i have found is on the net at www.traininglines.org.uk, they have a massive range of clickers at very reasonable prices.

I think they are brill - Its not circus trickery its just breaking down communication barriers by improving handlers timing and therefore aiding the dog in understanding what is required of them! My 13 week old pup is sitting, downing and tapping my hand with her paw which she does with no voice commands yet, just learnt through the click and if I wanted to teach 'tricks' I would see this as mental stimulation rather than putting on a show.? I do 5-10 minutes a day with my pup it gives her something to think about and she gets really enthusiastic - it has been particularly useful with toilet training as I can click from the back door as soon as she has done her business - perfect timing - no misunderstanding and she is really getting it. By the way, I bought a 9 metre lunge rein (horses) from Robinsons country lesiure to do recalls with my pup in a field for about £5 on the same order I found a clicker for £1.50 - They are £5.50 in Pets at home!!!
Sarah

Thanks will try the clicker then!!

Hi Rachnew, Sounds like your lab needs to know his place in the household :) let him know you wont tolerate his jumping up by turning your back on him and ignoring him (I suggest your visitors do the same) You should greet him on your terms and when all four of his paws are on the ground! I wonder if he see's you as a bit of a soft touch and trying to dominate you, hence the teeth??? You say you feel guilty when putting him out or telling him off - stick to your gun's, thing is if he barks and you let him in he will associate barking with getting what he wants! - he needs a place in the household hierachy. Clicker training is fab, and could prove useful to you, if you cant get on a training course in your area I would recommend you get a good book about this type of training to help you. Good luck.
Sarah.

Hello Sarah,

Thanks for your reply, i do tell my visitors to ignore him and turn his back, my son has a five year old friend who just walks aroung my house backwards now!! It does work with adults but is hard for children to understand. I think i need to be stronger with him, as he listens to his dad more than me, (im the loving soft one i think!) Did speak to bark busters today,and its £190!! I am having him castrated on friday, do you think this will help??

Sorry to butt in, but castration will NOT stop a puppy jumping up, infact the only thing castration really helps with is dogs who run off after a bitch in season, and even then it's not 100% (one of my own dogs would go awandering when the local tart of a Rottie was in season - he'd come back with a BIG smile on his face and spend most of the evening licking his 'bits' - no question where he'd been.........) Castration in a nervous/badly socialised male dog can also lead to dog agression problems as other dogs don't recognise him as a male, so assume he's a female, possibly read to be mounted - which obviously the castrated dog doesn't appreciate - so he has to learn (he thinks) to defend himself :(

Very worried if you are castrating in the hope of changing the normal behaviour of a pup, it could well make matters worse in that the pup will never go beyond the puppy stage, castration is not a replacement for training

How very true; what a pity more vets don't say that :(

hello digger, are you saying it is better not to have a dog castrated at all, or just to wait unitl he is older, i am just going on the advise of my vets and other friends that have dogs, although one totally disagrees and said i should never have him done

IT very much depends on you, your circumstances, and your dog......... If you have the time and patience and support to work through the 'teenage years' you'll end up with a more mature and dog aware animal. If you don't, then you should be aware of the potential for your dog to end up with socialisation problems, especially if he's a naturally lower ranking animal, or possibly a naturally very high ranking dog - niether take well to being taken for bitches by other dogs (which often happens to neutered dogs :( ). I'm afraid it's swings and roundabouts - you pays your money and takes your choice, but whatever the circumstances I would never get a dog neutered younger than a year.

I'm afraid I'm very cynical about all the things that vets say should be done as a matter of 'routine' (speying, castration, vaccinations etc) - I have to ask myself if the great god MONEY isn't at the root of it.......

It seems to me most of the things you are having problems with are normal puppy things - I believe your best bet would be to take your dog (and the rest of the family if possible) to a well run class where you should find support and advice for all the stuff you are going through and will go through. Most APDT classes are good, but what ever class you are interested in - make sure you can go along and observe for a week or two before commiting yourself to make sure their approach is right for you.

HTH

Thanks for your advise, when we first got him i did take him to puppy training classes, the nights drew in and the trainer changed the times, which i couldnt do, so i just stopped going, i will find another class to go to now. I have cancelled his op for tommorrow and am going to concentrate on training, i feel better knowing its normal behaviour for a pup! (He's a lab) and since yesterday he seems abit calmer. We are going back to basics!!

Hi,

Yes, i have heard of bark busters :(

I'm sorry to say i wouldn't use them - they dont seem to understand dog behaviour at all. The members vary but most will rely on just jerking your dog about and will probably tell you he is domimant and that its all your fault :(

Lindsay

You need to be aware that Bark Busters is just a franchise; members/practitioners are not necessarily well versed or experienced in the art of dog training!

Something I have never understood - why use a clicker instead of learning to use your voice? It is just another item to have to carry around with you?

Christine

The clicker is used instead of the voice because it is distinctly different from the voice. Most people burble away at their dogs far too much until it becomes just meaningless background or lift music. Many people DO use a word as a click however it should be a word that is not generally used in conversation. The clicker is used ONLY when training (you are not likely to use it for anything else, hence why you need to keep it away from the kids etc). It is clear, it is consistent (another problem a lot of novice dog trainers have is keeping their voice level without any tension etc etc) and so anyone can use it . The system of operant conditioning works whether one uses a voice/clicker/ or whistle etc; you are right it is not dependent on the use of the clicker.

If anyone is interested in using the clicker to help with serious training, i would recommend Morgan Spector's "Clicker training for Obedience" . I'ts very comprehensive and has helped me a lot :)

Also there are a few interesting sites to join - www.clickersolutions.com
www.clickertraining.com
www.clickertales.com

And some mailing groups - gruops.yahoo.com/group/clickersolutions (a general list for beginners and advanced for training and behavioural problems with experienced trainers on hand)

groups.yahoo.com/group/Pos-4-ReactiveDogs/ (for owners of fearful and reactive dogs)

groups.yahoo.com/group/PostiveGunDogs/ (list for those interested in clicker training retrievers and gun dogs)

Lindsay