Hi I have a 12 mth old G.S.D who is very unsociable to other dogs. He was not able to be intergraded with dogs when he was younger as he suffered parvo for the first 3 mths of his life & had reoccuring trouble until about 8 mths. He lives with 2 cats & gets on great with them. I have a child & he loves her & her friends and all other people but cannot get on with other dogs. He has already attacked one dog by leaping a 5 ft fence when out on a walk ( he managed to wriggle out of his chocker lead to do this) luckly it wasnt a serious case( well not this time!) but it is getting unbearable to take him on walks. My hubby is in the armed forces & only home at weekends & I am now expecting another baby so I find it hard to keep him under control when he see's another dog and it frightens me if another incident like previous were to happen when I had him. (luckly the last incident happened when my hubby had him & he controlled the situation). He only gets on with other G.S.D. dogs if he see's them. Dont get me wrong he is an absolute beauty at home & with everything else & I couldnt fault him for his nature, only his aggression to other dogs! Can anyone suggest any help tips apart from dog classes as the last time he went to one of them he was uncontrollable & frightened the other dogs. It is such a shame as it is making his walks which should be fun times both difficult for him & me.....I really dont want to have to resort to a muzzle if I can help it as he isnt a danger to people etc. Please help! A devoted & caring G.S.D owner.

First of all get ready for some penolising! They don't like choke chains on here so be warned! (I use them like :-))
If i were you i would contact your vet and ask them if they can put you in contact with a good dog psychologist/behaviourist. They may be able to solve the problem, i had one for my boy and it turned him around completely!
In the mean time try a muzzle, they look awful but it will provide you with peace of mind and keep passing dogs safe. The cage ones are my personal preferance as the dog can still open its mouth, take treats etc.
Good luck!
Caz x

I had the same problem with my bulldog after he was quite viciously attacked by another bigger dog . I explained this situation to my local dog trainer who advised me to sit in the corner on one of her obedience classes to get him used to other dogs being in the same room as him . He's been going for about 6 weeks now and the difference is amazing ! He can now sit very calmly like he used to prior to this incident and doesn't seem to take any notice . The trainer will also walk him around the class getting closer very gradually , she doesn't treat him with bics but with immense praise and I can't praise her enough ! Understandibly your dog is much bigger than mine but maybe its worth giving it a go with a good reputable trainer.

I agree - you need somebody to observe you and your dog, to ensure you aren't giving him any messages that he might understand as you needing protecting, and also to ensure you aren't pushing the dog into accepting strange dogs closer to him that what he is currently comfortable with. Then should then help you to enable him to allow other dogs closer, to find out it can be a pleasant experience. Angela Stockdale in Somerset is probably the best at this sort of situation, as her Stooge dog Stan is so very very experienced - he talks very good 'Dog Language'.......... It might be worth getting a couple of books too - like Think Dog! by John Fisher and Dog Behaviour Explained by Peter Neville.

YOu may find you have more control with a head collar and a double ended lead attached to his normal collar (take a peek at www.kumfi.com)

I would suggest a kind experienced trainer with some behavioural experieince, as if you get the right trainer now your dog could well be turned around at his young age. I agree Angela S. is brillliant with dog aggressive dogs. Take a look at www.apdt.co.uk and also consider asking your vet for a referral to a reputable behaviourist with some hands on experience.

good luck

Lindsay

Thanx people for the information. I was seriuosly considering contacting a behaviouralist so I think I will go ahead with that. I have actually got a head collar which stops pulling & it works for so long but he keeps getting out of that too. (little monkey) He may feel protective towards me as he is constantly watching me & sort of checking to see if I'm ok. I havent had him castrated & dont really want to resort to that because I have heard some people say it would stop their aggression if you castrate them but is it really necessary? I dont intend breeding him etc although he is of a very high breed but just want him as a plain old family pet.. I hope I can get everything sorted as he is my best boy & we want to continue a long & happy life with him. Thanx again.. :)

To give you more security with the head collar - try two leads (one on the head collar, one on the flat collar) or a double ended training lead attached similarly - when he starts tossing his head on the halti, drop the tension on that lead and use the collar - if he's got nothing to fight against, he can't fight........

hiya,
You are right not to jump straight to castration as the answer, sometimes it is, sometimes it is not, as some dogs, without the testosterone, loose all their confidence, and a nervy aggressive dog is a far worse thing!

You could however try teh Tardac injection, thats just a chemical castration and lasts a few weeks, which might give you a clue as to whether castration would help or not.

Basically there is no easy answer, just socialise socialise socialise, an then do it some more.
Take him, adn a big pot of treats, to a bench in a park where u can see other dogs, but can stay a fair distance away from them.
If you have toys you can distract him with then thats great too.

Id definately have him on a headcollar and a flat or half check collar, with a double ended lead. When he creates over another dogs presence, ignore him completely, say nothing. When (and it may take some time) he ignores them, even if its for a split second, reward that.
The problem with shouting at your dog, is that he may easily think that you are shouting cos of the other dog. Similarly, physical punishment for his behaviour is more likely to be linked to the other dogs presence than to his reaction, so if he realises another dogs presence means he gets a smack/jerk on collar etc etc, he could double his efforts to make them go away.

There is another trick you can use, however it works MUCH better if you have a set up of non reactive dogs (adn i can appreciate not many ppl do)....i call it the run away trick...Secure your dog to a post (NOT with a headcollar OR choke chain, but with a flat collar and longish lead), have another dog walk past at whatever distance is his closest 'safe' distance (ie as near the dog can get when he will JUST react to it),,,,,, the second he reacts, say 'bad dog' and run off away from him. The second he is quiet, return.
Do that a few times, and then have the stooge dog sit still, rather than walk past, and work with that....if he is a smart dog, he should fairly quickly realise that his action means he does not get your support.

However, that method does depend on you having stooge dogs and friends available to handle them, dont try it on strange dogs in teh park, and if it upsets your dog too much, dont do it.

The other thing i would suggest is get your dog to be a bit more independant, set aside quiet times where he cant see you or follow you around.

Good luck,
Em

thanks for that info. I am going to be moving soon to a place where there are g.s.d. guard dogs (army base) my hubby has asked the dog handler for some help & he has advised we will socialise him with the guard dogs due to them being very highly trained, so he can bark etc as much as he likes, they wont react! lets hope it will eventually bore him & that I can safely walk him without any problems. I am going to persevere with the halti collar. It is true he struggles to get it off his jaw when on & dropping the lead slack helps but I never thought of using two leads at the same time. I actually had him out yesterday & the police were near by with a sniffer g.s.d & my baby decided to join in, no aggression what so ever.. I dont know if he can associate himself with the same kind of breed (if you know what I mean) the police were laughing & asked if we could spare an hour !! He's staying a pet I told them laughing! anyways, i will contact a vet re the injection rather than castration & see what happens there. The only problem is that I am expecting a baby & I want to try & get this sorted b4 I have the baby so that when it comes to walk times he will come with no problems with me & the pram. I cant have him getting aggressive when I have not just him on a walk. It is such a shame that he suffered such trauma when he was a pup with his disease and wasnt able to socialise with ohter pups.. ie at pup classes.. The disease has left him with very aggrivated bowels.. which we try to alliminate with his diet. Do you think this may be causing aggression problems ? worth looking into...

Another thing you might like to consider is his feeding schedule - several APDT trainers I'm in a group with have suggested that dog/dog agression can be worse if the dog is feeling hungry........ And a residual belly ache might also be making him feel grumpy.........

Aggravated bowels are unlikely to be contributing to dog aggression. You pointed the problem out in your initial post - your pup could not socialise with other dogs just at the time when he should have been learning how get along, play and be comfortable around his own species. Most dog-to-dog aggression is out of fear, not out of true mean-spirited aggression.

You are lucky to be able to work with a dog trainer. Your dog may never 100% like other dogs, but he can learn to be calm and not overreact when he is around them.

Stacey

I suspect that the initial cause of his aggression was down to the lack of socialisation enforced by the parvo - no one's fault but very annoying. He is a shepherd too, after all ;) and they do as we know need lots of dog-dog socialisation. It is very possible though that, if his guts are causing actual pain, that they could aggravate the condition.

It may be worth getting a vet's opinion and then as you are there, discussing the option of referral to an experienced hands on reputable behaviourist. If you get help now at this stage, you may well overcome the early problems manifesting now :)

lindsay

i have a two year old white german shepherd and from a puppy she has been around 3 other dogs.A black labrador only a few months older, a Westie a year younger and a 13yr old toy yorkie.In march this year the black lab tried to get to the shepherds food.the shepherd saw her and a huge fight broke out.now ever since then they only have to take one look at each other and all hell breaks loose.a few weeks later we bred the black lab and she had 12 pups.the black lab wasnt too interested in her pups but the shepherd loved them.the black lab disliked this.we kept one pup which the shepherd gets on brilliantly with.but its just the mother black lab and the shepherd and now the westie has started too.we muzzled them together and they still tried to get to each other.it is now at the point where all doors must be kept shut and we panick in case either of them have found a way in or out.we have to put all the other 4 dogs outside for the shepherd to come in. do you have any ideas as to why things may have gone like this.we spoke to the vet and he said we will never get them back together and we must get rid of one of the two fighting bitches.this would break our hearts.so ideas and oppinions from any dog owners esp g.s.d would be very much appreciated.thankyou.pearl

Hi Pearl,

I really think for this it would be worth getting your vet to refer you to a proper behaviourist (David Appleby is very good). This is a really horrible problem which is only rarely cured. Once two bitches fall out, they really mean it, and it is unlikely they will ever be reliable together again. With proper advice from an experienced person who has seen your dogs at first hand you may be able to get them under control while you are with them, but not unattended.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
:(

been watching this post and have just noticed Jg has mentioned David Appleby, my vet suggested him to me today (the first appointment i could get is the 24th nov-must be good!) i can't wait to go with my naughty(but very cuddly) newf. x

Have to agree with Jg here......bitches fighting is a very different prospect from dogs fighting....wiht dogs 9 times out of 10 its just noise, body language etc, with bitches its teeth teeth teeth....they mean it, and bear a grudge, whereas dogs will get over it, avoid doing whatever it is that annoys the other dog, bitches will rarely if ever do that.
As your noticing, they now just need to see one another and war breaks out, i had the same with two bitches, one half the size of the other, that i am positive would have ended in the death of one of the dogs had i not rehomed one of them!

Id have a long hard think about it, its an awful decision to have to make, and see a behaviourist as well, see what they say.

Good luck!

Em

Thanks everyone for the help & supprt. I am pleased well not in that sense, but glad to know I am not alone with aggressive behaviour. I hope you can get things sorted pearl like me as you get quite attatched to the additional family members & I too dont want to think of the prospect of having to part with my boy especially after my baby is born. I have really read up on g.s.d`s & new arrivals in the house & have taken every step to ensure that when my baby is born the dog will not be left out or forgotten about. I have explained to my husband that he is to bring in the baby from hospital so that I can greet the dog & give him some fuss as I will be away in hosp for a few days. I hope this works! Gook luck and thanks again evryone for the info. Will let you know how things go!!

Hi Garfield,
If you are going to be in hospital for a few days having the baby, get your husband to bring home some of the baby's worn clothes, and used nappies, so that your dog can become accustomed to the strange new smell before the baby actually gets home, and is making strange new noises as well!
:)

Oooooh,
And, try and get hold of a tape of a baby making teh full range of baby noises, if you have a friend with a baby see if they can provide some baby noises?

Em

Thanks again never thought of that. Will try to get that sorted. Cheers