i cant take it no more!, we have an 18 month old staffie (male) and he just wont stop peeing ! i let him out he comes in and pee's he pees up the furniture on the beds and he knows hes doing wrong because when hes done it hesits and looks at me....i cant help but yell at him beacuse i know he knows hes done wrong but now hes peeing when i scold him..i really cant take it no more, im wondering if its actually a medical problem or whether my partner has just spoilt him too much , i love him to bits but i cant take it much more..

Hi i know how you feel i have 10 month old pup ,she doesnt pee so much as scent (i think ) we have two cats and if they have been somewhere in the house ,she pees /scents ,where ever they have been ,also she knows she has done wrong ,she puts her ears flat and crawls into her bed ...i do not shout at her (allthough its very hard not to ) i clear up when she is not insight !! like you we are at a loss to know what to do ,nothing seems to work ,she just seems to have to put her scent OVER the cats ,i have asked for help here before ,and have tried every suggestion ,! and still she does it ,it is causing problems as my husband ,just sees a puppy that with everything else is so very quick to learn and a wonderful companion to us all, but for whatever reason will not stop doing this, she always goes outside to do any toilets....and comes back inside smells cats .....and off she goes again!!!!! , this problem is driving everyone crazy!! we do not know what to do for the best !! any other suggestions would be greatly recieved,Bye Sue & Lola xx

Hi sue, i think u hit the nail on the head ! , i have 2 cats too!, and now i think of it he pees where the cats have been!, ive tried everything too but im at a loss, weve trained him to go outside , he knows when he needs the toilet , and he is walked 3 times a day ,weve done the cage thing weve started from scratch twice already , i think i shall take him to the vets this week and ask for there advice, but since you have 2 cats and your pup is doing the same its probably scenting that he's doing , when i speak to his vets i will get back to you , or if anyone knows a way that mine and sues prob can be sorted please let us know ,
our dogs ARE trained to go outside , but there still peeing inside !

I think the only thing you can so is not leave them unsupervised in areas of the house that the cats frequent most. Keep them in a place with easily washed floors (usually kithen) unless you can watch every time. at other times as soon as he tries to cok his leg scold and take outside. A Squirty bottle might help with this too.

Is the peeing a full blown pee, or just squirts to mark territory? I would add having looked after a freinds neutered male jack Russell, that castration may have very little efect on this if it is already an established behaviour, as he did it in my house, probably because I have all bitches.

Hi Levi, well i have read all of the posts but i cant honestly see what else i can do ,as i said before i have tried everything suggested here! everyone has been great ,taking time to try and help!but i dont yell at her ,or punish her , i wash wet spots with bio powder ,,what i truelly dont understand is ,if dogs have such a short memory how come (when she has peed,not had an accident !!),l she goes into a corner ,or into her bed ,ears flat not a wag in sight ,i know she has peed before i get to her because at all other times she is going crazy when we get in !!lots of licks cuddles and attention ,when there is a mess she knows what she has done ,this doesn't happen every day,as i have said before i have two cats and it has been a real problem with her and the cats ,ist cat is ok now he seems to know that she is just playing ,but 2nd cat has only just started to venture back in doors(its taken almost 6 months ) ,and Lola makes it very clear there's going to be a fight for pecking order !!and at the moment she is staying in the kitchen,but even when being watched she pees /scents ...not a full on pee just a bit !!!!!!! last night outside my daughters bedroom ,then later in the sitting room (not on top of where she has been before ..close to it though ..)it is causing real problems ,and it upsets me so much ,i feel i should be able to sort this out .is she doing it because she is unhappy,? what is it i am not doing right? Take Care Sue & Lola xx

First question. Is he fixed? THis can sometimes be the problem because he could be marking. So you could get him fixed but you will still need to retrain him.

I have two sets of advice. First take him to the vet and check to see if it is a medical problem. If that comes up negative then I advise youto go back to kindergarten with him. What I mean is start at the begining.

If you don't have a crate get one. Then first thing in the morning take him outside to go to the bathroom. Take him to the spot that you have designated and then say a command like Hurry Up. Say that every other minute till he either goes or until 15 minutes is up. If he goes then praise him to no end. If he doesn't then take him to the house and put him back into his crate. Wait 1/2 an hour then do the whole thing agian. Keep doing this routine till he goes. When he does go then bring him back into the house and feed him. He then has a 1/2 hour to play, with complete supervision, then back into the crate. After an hour in the crate take him out and do the routine agian. You are basically finding out what exact time he needs to go. At 6pm pick up his water and don't let him have anymore. Keep up the routine for the next couple of days. At first it will seem like he is in the crate a lot. But after 2 days of no accidents increase the time after going to the bathroom by 15 mintues. but keep up the routine. Then after another 2 days of no accidents increase another 15 mnutes. So soon he will not be in the crate at all. It works trust me. Plus you will learn when he really does need to go out. This will also teach him to go on command and in one spot.

i know how you feel our staff weed and pood everyday,i was at work all day but my boyfriend worked round the corner and used to come home at dinner let her out make a fuss ect this went on till she was about 1 and half.Everyday we used to get in and the kitchen had wee and poo everywhere,she knew she had done wrong,i didn't even have to say anything to her i would just give her a look and she would crouch in her basket beating/wagging her tail,on the 'VERY' rear occasion we came home and she hadn't done anything i would praise her,tell her what a good girl she was.Till gradually she didn't do it at all.Now we don't have a problem at all, its like it never happened.so persavier it will get better!i promise and you'll have a great dog at the end of it.
vicky&Saffie[my fully toilet trained stafford]

Hi Levi

Another thing to be aware of is how you clean up where the dog has peed. Using ordinary disinfectants etc, no matter how much you scrub, will often still leave a trace of the smell and this alone can encourage the dog to keep peeing on the same places. You can buy a special stuff from pet shops which will clean the spots thoroughly and get rid of the lingering odours. But there is also a common household thing you can use, which I think is biological washing powder, is that right anyone? I can't remember, but I'm sure someone will know!

Good luck!
Lesley

Yes - a hot solution of biological washing powder will help remove the smell - but if you can follow it up with a wipe over with surgical or white spirit it will help to break down the fatty acids that hold the residue of the scent - this is the bit the dog can smell even if you can't........

BTW OP - he doesn't know it's 'wrong' - dogs don't have any concept of right and wrong - they only know what's rewarding and what isn't - it could be that he's looking at you to make sure you're watching, because you reward him in some way when he does it - and it could even be that the reward he gets is your attention - so try and keep that to a minumum as well - no yelling (unless you can time it sufficiently to stop him in his tracks and shoosh him outside........) and put him outside while you are cleaning up so he can't pick up on your body language.

Please note: Your dogs do NOT know they have done anything wrong. What do do is read your body language and know you are going to shout or be cross with them and react to that.

You can get body belts for dogs that are supposed to stop them urinating inappropriately. These are just bands that go around their stomach/"hose" and fix on their back with velcro - about 4" wide. If a dog then tries to cock its leg it gets wet. You can also get pants for bitches which do the same.

The other thing is not to let him in where you have soft furnishings - use the kitchen for training and drape a cloth over a box or corner of a cabinet and the moment you think he is going to lift his leg then put him outside.

Christine

Well in that case my dog must be half human,because he does know when hes done something wrong, how come hes hiding under the table before i even know that he's pee'd?
i really dont believe that dogs dont know right from wrong i think people underestimate how smart they really are,when he plays with my youngest cat and i sneakly look out the corner of my eye he thinks im not looking and then treads on her! and when you look at him he'll lick her instead!ive done the cleaning with washing powder ive spent a fortune on dogpee removel cleaner all he does then is pees somewhere else!
but then again im not sure if hes peeing or scenting, whats the difference? he only pees a little at a time anway does this mean he's scenting? i really didnt want to get his "manhood" chopped because id love to breed him , he's a pedegree adn his mum and dad are show dogs, but if this will for sure solve the prob then i'll have to have him snipped..

Dogs are amoral; there is no "right" or "wrong" in their world. Only "safe" v "dangerous". An excellent book which expands on this is The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson which, IMHO, is the book that EVERYONE, novice or experienced should have in their library; preferably before they even get a dog.

The belief that dogs understand right from wrong has driven years of punishment based training techniques which are so harmful to the dog/owner relationship.

Before reaching for the "magic wand" of castration your time would be more profitably spent in trying to learn how your dog really sees the world which will help you create a bond of trust and understanding which, when formed, is unequalled.

regards

Storytime:

Once upon a time there was a little dog called Pixie who wanted nothing better than to please her owner. She tried so hard but every time her owner appeared she did nothing but peer round the room and shout at and hit her or rub her nose in pooh or pee, so Pixie soon learnt to try to hide or appease her owner by crouching down and being as submissive as possible.

Tragically this had the opposite effect and the more submissive Pixie became the more angry and abusive her owner became and Pixie could never understand why this was happening. The more submissive Pixie became the more her owner was convinced that Pixie knew what she was thinking - Pixie didn't - all the little dog was doing was responding to her owner's body language. To Pixie it was natural to eliminate as and when she wanted - if she could not get outside she did it where she was - then promptly forgot about it.

An experiment:

When you know there is nothing to find leave the house for a few seconds. Then return and act EXACTLY as you do when you normally return and watch your dog's body language. You may find this difficult to do as you will be thinking about what you are doing but IF you do it properly you should find the results very informative

Christine

crikey all i ask for was a little advice on what to do with a dog that pees everywhere i wasnt expecting a lecture on it , i dont beat my dog , ive never hit him when he pees i simple shout his name, and having him chopped is the very last resort i want to take this afternoon i took him for his usual hr walk he comes in goes upstairs and pees on my daughters bed then goes and gets under the bed.so your telling me he doesnt know that what hes just done was wrong? so why get under the bed?

He hides because he knows you're (understandably) angry. He may well have no idea of the reason for your anger. It may have become part of the routine, I don't know.

In the short term, would you be able to restrict his access to the places where he pees? If he goes upstairs to pee on your daughter's bed, would a stairgate to prevent him getting there be a help?
:)

ahhhhhhh !! i want to pull my hair out !!

im really thankful to all of you for your advice (please dont think im not), if levi (my dog) pees then gets under the bed your saying its because im angry?, but im not angry because im not to know that hes pee'd yet ! it's hard to explain to you without u seeing what he does, if i go out and come in and hes pee'd hes already under the table ,before ive noticed he's pee'd he gets the same reaction from me everyday i call him as soon as i open the door if he comes to me i know he hasnt pee'd yet if he doenst its because he's under the table and he has pee'd does anyone understand what i mean!? lol
and i would really love to block rooms of that he doesnt pee in but he pee's in every room if i shut him from there room he will then pee in my room , or the kitchen, stairs . hallway etc its a never ending circle

Why not just keep him in one room if you are not with him & when you return do not react at all to him. If he has done something, put him outside, clean it up & still ignore him, if he has done nothing they call him to you & treat him

He really will not "feel" guilty as dogs do not have "guilt" feelings but can be frightened & fearful, you do not have to physically do anything to to your dog to make him, just speaking in an angry voice & the way you react to finding the pee can instigate the reaction.

You can show the body language without even knowing it, they can sense moods too as well as chemocal changes in our bodies(epilepsy alert dogs sense the chemical changes that trigger seizures)

I learnt the hard way with a dog that ate the plaster off the walls down to the brickwork, I had to get her to realise that not doing it got a reward & doing got no reation at all & she never saw me clean up the mess

Try looking at it this way Levi's Mum - Levi's learnt, just as dogs learn that ringing a bell means food will soon follow (Pavlov's famous experiment), that when there is pee on the bed (or where ever) which he can smell, but probably can't remember doing, that you aren't going to be happy when you find it - so he's making sure he's doing all the right doggy things to try and convince you that he's not the one you should be angry with, because he knows nothing about it........

Hi,
It seems to me that to break this bad habit of his you are going to have to change his (and your) routine. You say <<he gets the same reaction from me everyday I call him as soon as I open the door>>. How does he behave if, when you come in, you don't call him? It would be worth trying that for a fortnight to change his perception of your return.
:)

It would appear he has too free access to your living areas. It is best to limit him to the area that is most easily cleaned. If he cannot go upstairs he can't pee there.

If you put him out of any room with carpet or soft furnishings when you cannot watch him constantly then he cannot have accidents or idulge his scenting behaviour. the less opportunity he has to do it the less of a habit it will be. It will have the added effect of not having him act or feel guilty (sdepending on your opinion) which will have a positive efect on your relationship with each other.

I would ground him but being older he won't have to pee as often, it does sound like he is marking in your home. I would not sugest taking away water I really don't see taking that away is a way to solve you problem JMOP.

First I really like the leash thing. Keep him on a leash every where you go so does he, unable to watch him kennel him, or you could even keep him in his favorite marking area and feed him there. Carry a water bottle or a shake can and when you see him about to lift his leg in the house shake the can or spray him but don't let him see you do it. This way he associates with every time he lifts his leg indoor he gets wet/loud noise and doesn't see it as you punishing him. The goal is to make his behavior is what is causing the unpleasent for him not you. I would also put him outdoors on leash and go with him. 2nd I would feed him and play with him in the places he likes to mark, dogs don't like to mess where they eat, sleep or play. Also if you catch him in the act and have nothing on hand don't yell at him use a disaproving voice and tell him how upset you are with him. He is basically marking to say this is his place treat him the same way you would treat any one else that would pee in your house. 3rd if he is not fixed get him done this may help since his urge to mark will not be as strong. make sure you have cleaned the area's real good because they will just lure him back.

I had a little male boston that marked all the time even my guests and would pee through his kennel. I did try the kennel thing if he didn't go to the bathroom and that never worked (he just peed through it)then I did the leash thing and it worked.

Hopefully he gets some manners soon and respects your home and see's it as yours and not all his.
Good luck
ttfn :)

thankyou everyone for your advice im now going to take it all in and get started , i will let you all know the out come, ive just had a good talk to him and hopefully he agrees that we need get this sorted ..lol
speak to you all soon !!

Hi Levi, Lola is my third bitch ,all have lived long and happy lives ,but she is the first to act this way,Digger says if they pee on the bed (,Lola has done this at least 3 or 4 times,),they will not remember doing this ! then how come she is going to remember me getting angry ?(and i can honestly say i have followed the advice here and not got angry, she has not seen me clean up,and i have not shouted or yelled at her ,does it make a differance with this marking between dogs & bitches?,and she is spending more time in the kitchen ,with stair gate , she can see us ..but this seems to upset her even more ,she is a very much loved member of our family ,spoilt ,but is expected to respect her home ! so how come she is perfect for weeks ..and then start's marking all over again?,and this ALWAYS coincides with Enzo(cat )turning up !!Thanks for every ones advice ,and like you i shall keep on trying to sort this out , and i chat to her all the time , just wish she would listen!! Bye Sue & Lola xx

Hi Levi

" i simple shout his name"

I know it is very difficult but try not to do this. The reason is that frequently the only link between your dog and yourself is his name, and saying his name should be a pleasant experience and he should respond willingly and/or come to you whenever you use it. If you use a sort of growl-ly noise almost under your breath this can be very effective at stopping dogs doing what you consider is wrong If you catch them in the act - always followed immediately by praise if/when they stop.

I am sorry if you think I am lecturing you but surely it is better for me (and the rest of us) to try to make it clear why we think something is happening, or the cause and effect than just to say "you shouldn't be doing that!" or "do it this way"?

Christine

Hi Sarah,thanks for your email,i am having a few problems with my sending emails, .....its bound to be my problem!! ..usually is !! as soon as i have found someone to sort it out ,i shall be in touch ,you were right though ,!!and it does help to know i am not alone with this problem with Lola ,i was just convinced it was my fault,(i'm still not convinced its not !!)but everything i try ..fails! reading your post was just so surreal you were saying almost word for word what Lola is doing!!i can tell by reading your posts that you love Levi very much , ditto with Lola ...in fact of the dogs i have had before her ,she has that something special ,and apart from chasing anything that moves usually cats ,she is everything you would want in a pet /friend !!but this peeing is just not getting any better,infact tonight i was cleaning up after her again ,(she was outside at the time ,so she didnt see me cleaning up ,no telling her off etc within less than five mins (she was let back into sitting room ,i had put her back into the kitchen ,and she peed /marked again,!about a foot from the last one ..as i was cleaning up AGAIN,John came home (Lola was back in the kitchen ,)he just looked at me and said "this is ridiculous"and has said we have to sort it out ,so i am going to make an appointment at the vets ,i just dont know what else i can do ,i cant think the vet can tell me anything that everyone here hasnt said already !!!!!!! and John thinks i have lost the plot not even telling her NO and naughty, when she just keeps repeating this behaviour ,as far as he is concerned "ignoring this behaviour " just does not work" ,today i have bought a vax machine as the carpets are such a mess ,and only 6 months old Keep in touch it really was good to hear from you......,and hey a problem shared realy is a problem halved well nearly ..... Take Care Sue & Lola xx

Hi Well its me again..! tonight we went out for my neices 16th birthday dinner ,were out approx three hours ,came home to ecstatic licks etc from Lola ,hugs and lots of fuss all around,then Charlie came in(the cat ) ,i picked him up gave him a cuddle ....and Lola peed at my feet..... please tell me ..why ?,this is not right, i truelly do not understand her behaviour ,and John is losing all patience , what reason is there for doing this ,help me to help her ,this is spoiling a very special relationship ,i am trying my best to do what is right ,but how do you manage to act as though everything is ok when its not ?i have said this so many times you must all be sick of hearing it ...i love this little dog with all of my heart ,but things have to change ,and with my hand on my heart i cannot think of anything i am doing wrong ,i have followed everyones suggestions ,.....!!!!!!!i honestly dont know what to do next ,Sue & Lola xx

Hi,
It sounds very much as though she is jealous of your cat. Dogs who are very dependent on their owners find it very difficult to 'share' attention with anything/anybody else, and will resort to whatever it takes to divert that attention back to themselves. I bet you gave Lola attention when she peed on your shoes! So from her point of view, it worked!

Once the reason behind the action is understood, it makes the solution easier to find. One option is that you don't make a fuss of Charlie when Lola is in the same room. If that is not possible, try to make sure that someone gives Lola attention while Charlie is cuddled.

This is not an insurmountable problem. But it isn't going to be easy, either.

Hi Jeangenie ,thanks for taking the time to get back to me ,i didnt think anyone would still be up and about at this time !to be honest this is upsetting me so much (well that and hormones ..lethal concotion !!) i am finding it hard to sleep!I agree i think she is jealous of both cats ,and i also think thats why we are having so many problems with her ,as i said earlier of all of the dogs i have had ,there is somthing very special and different with Lola ,my other dogs ,allthough primarily mine have been family pets ,Lola is too and loves everyone equally ,but she is somtimes a bit skitty (a little nervous) and then always comes to me ,she also gets a little jealous of anyone showing me affection,nothing bad ,just as soon as i have any contact with anyone she wants to be in the middle ,making a fuss of me and whoever ,but its as though she has to push them away from me ,they all think this is very cute !! i am not sure that it is though !when we rescued her they said she had been teased by children,and she was quite snappy and jumpy !!that has all gone now and she absolutley loves the children who come to the house ,all in all a wonderful little girl ...except for the peeing ....which i now think is due to attention seeking !! if this is so ,how do i go about reassuring her any more than i do already ? ,maybe its just going to take more time and patience ..! this may sound odd ,but both other bitches i had before Lola were great ,but they were bitches ,i often feel that Lola has been around before,as my friend said yesterday ,its just like having a child in the house not a dog ....hope you understand what i am trying to say ,i know it may sound odd its just how it is !!!!!!! Bye Sue & Lola xx

Oh Sue it must be so upsetting for you.
I would explain to your other half that ignoring doesn't work as a cure, but anything other than ignoring makes it worse.
It does sound as though it's a nervous thing, dogs weeing on furniture and scent marking everywhere are usually either trying to reassure themselves (I call it the canine equivalent of putting photo's out when in a new place, it's something familiar and feels like home) or lose control when they are very scared.
With the cats, it's hard to tell if it's an attention thing as previously mentioned, or perhaps even fear or insecurity in their presence. Especially if she usually chases them, she might be very confused and not sure what to do when they are in the house.
I agree a vet check is a vital thing, it could well be something physical. If the vets find nothing wrong, ask for a referal to behaviourist. That might seem a bit OTT for a house training problem, but it sounds like there is something else causing the problem. You need to establish the root cause, be it insecurity or whatever, and treat that.

With regards to the fear vs guilt thing, if she's as attached to you and as sweet natured as you say, she will be aware that you do not like wee on the floor, and will be acting 'guilty' as a way to appease you and try to switch off your distress. I know you are not shouting at her, but you are at the end of your tether and I bet there is a marked difference in your body language when you find a puddle. You'd be pretty unique if there wasn't! A dog being submissive does not mean that you are a bully, just that your dog is desperate to please you and is unhappy if she feels that you are upset. It's true that dogs can associate the presence of wee/poo on the floor with the owners being angry or upset, but they can't make the link between that, and the action of going. When they are going to the toilet they are not aware that they are in the process of making a puddle which will later upset you. If her toileting in the house is linked to any kind of fear or nervousness, you will appreciate that the feelings she experiences when she displeases you are just adding to her anxiety.
I'll give you an example from my own dogs. I've got Charlie who has always been somewhat neurotic. He would show similar signs of guilt whenever he had done anything wrong that left a mess. Whether that be messing in the house (he used to suffer from seperation anxiety and tended to lose house training when left - he's better now thank goodness!) or knocking something over.
When I got my second dog, I noticed Charlie would show similar signs of guilt when Len emptied the bins or stole from the worktops. That clearly couldn't be guilt because he hadn't done anything wrong. The time it really clicked with me was when I was sitting watching tv with the dog lying at my feet, and suddenly remembered something I'd forgotten to do. I said 'oh no' in a pretty dismayed tone of voice, and Charlie instantly started slinking around and being all submissive. I don't know about his experiences with humans before I came into his life, but I've never hit him, and he definitely hadn't done anything to warrant guilt then!
Anyway, back to your problem! The doggy nappies you can get are not a solution, but they might help ease the tension a little bit while you are in the process of finding a good behaviourist.
If Lola is insured, the cost of seeing a behaviourist may be included in your cover, if not, costs vary greatly, so it's not always the expensive option. Definitely cheaper than getting all your carpets replaced anyway!

I know how frustrating it must be for you. If you want to have a rant and let off some steam please feel free to email me.

Now, go and give Lola a big cuddle because this whole situation is probably upsetting her as much at is you!

take care,
Jo

Hi Jo, i cant tell you how much better you have made me feel!to be honest i have been staring at the computer all morning ,i just could not face logging on ,i am not a defeatest (i am far too stubborn for that) but this has upset me so much ,my relationship with Lola is very special to me and this is a partnership ,she is very bright and does not miss a thing (which is why this is all so hard to understand!!, i have the distinct feeling she is training me !! and not the other way around ....if only she could talk !!!!!we have been in the garden clearing leaves, for the last " TWO HOURS,"!!.....the house looks like a bomb has hit it ,but i thought sod it ,i have to learn to understand her ,i saw another post mentioned a book called"The Culture Clash,Jean Donaldson ,and the lady said all dog owners should read it wether experiened with dogs or not ,well i am prepared to try whatever it takes,and i guess it just goes to show that just because i have had other dogs before Lola,it does not guarantee,that i either know what i am doing ,.....or talking about!! ,(not much changed there then) (i almost smiled then ....havnt felt much like that for the past few day's !) i hope Levi's mum has read this post ,let me know what you think Sarah ,!,once again many thanks Jo , i have read and re read your post ,i think i can take it from here,i can but try ,.....so its back to the begining.....! Bye, Sue & Lola xx p.s. what a very clever young pup i have wrapped around my feet !,she must have been reading your post over my shoulder (lol)she has just given me the biggest shnuggle ever !!!!!!!.