I have some questions out there to anyone who has offered advice. I joined this forum about a week ago and found that most of you are wonderful people with some wonderful training suggestions and advice. But I have also noticed that when I give advice I am spending more time defending my training methods then being able to offer advice. Now just to give you a little back ground I have been training dogs for about 15 years proffesionaly. I train service dogs, retrain rescue dogs or abused dogs, train puppies and offer free training to people in the surrounding area who can't afford training for their dogs. I also work with several rescue groups. I joined this forum to add some new training ideas to my regeme and in a week I am adding some advice from you wonderful people already, plus to help anyone with a problem that I thought I could help with so that less dogs get taken to pounds and such.

My questions are

1: how many people are finding that they are spending more time defending their advice or reading more and more of people having to defend their oppinion over and over agian?

2: How many people find this worth while? I don't mind people saying they don't like my method that is their right but to do it over and over agian and to try and draw me into a debate is what I don't like. I find it a waste of time. I am just trying to help like everyone else. It is up to the person wanting the advice to pick and choose what they want to try. I though the best was to get as much advice as possible.

I have also noticed some people who like to try and force their oppinion on others and can get rather insulting about it. I see this as childish and pointless just like yelling at a puppy for an offence. It doesn't really work and puts people off. Why can't these people just give their advice and then sit back and see what others say with out getting insultive and negative. I am just happy that there are so many helpful people out there who will sit down at a computer during their day to offer their free advice to someone in need of help. Someone they usually don't even know.

As this is a discussion board, surely debate is what it's all about? An exchange of information? And of course that information has to be valid - backed up with evidence or experience. If I (or anyone else) gives advice I would expect to have to back it up - otherwise it may be dangerous hearsay.

Sensible debate is good - it's what sorts out fact from fiction! When it gets heated is when it becomes pointless.

Smileys also show intended mood.
:)

well said JG :)

I've questioned some of the advice you've given. In my experience its easy to get stuck in a rut, using the same old techniques (and yes, they can work) but without being open minded about different techniques, or the potential for a technique to cause future problems (I'm thinking of using both physical and confrontational methods to restrain a nipping puppy), if those of us who are aware of potential problems, and duly highlighting them, we'd be doing the dogs who belong to lurkers as well as posters, a disservice if we stayed quiet.........

I also questioned your advice, and agree with JG. If you are going to give advice then you need to be sure it can stand up with hard facts behind it.
It's ok to say "Well i did it this way with my dog" but to say "You should do it this way" needs to be backed up.
And it's no good doing a Shirley Temple when they don't listen either. ;)

Sarah
p.s It's very rare i give advice, i sure do look for it though.

The trouble with a board is that we can't see the dog. We have no knowledge of the original poster's experience and a simple statement such as "My puppy is aggressive" is open to interpretation by any who post advice. If for example someone with the experience of say, Jeangenie or Brainless who started the thread then I would know that she would have big problems because she would know aggression is she saw it. On the other hand, if it was someone with their first dog I immediately think that it was, in all possibility, normal puppy play. As the original statement stands we really have no idea where to start!! What one person reads into a post may be totally different to another. Who's to say which is right?? We can really only ask questions in the first instant to try to read what's in between the lines.

What correction would a person recommend? Obviously that should depend on the dog and what the dog is used to. A dog used to a smack may well not take notice of a voice correct. A timid dog could literally be destroyed by the hard handling which another dog would not even notice. But again, we have no way of knowing the dog!

The one thing I will say is that giving advice on a board is fraught!!! Our chances on fouling it up are legion! Really, our only safe approach is to air on the side of caution. I sometimes wonder why we risk giving advice at all!!

Regards, John

I would say John that you and others give advice because you have a wealth of knowledge that greedy people:D like me ;) want to hear and store away for future use.

I must say I try not to give advice on training just my opinion or some experience that has worked or not for me in the past 24 years as a Stafford owner :D

My thought is you ask for advice because you want it, when you get it you sift through the replies use your common sense and decide whether or not to follow the advice.

Karen
( Always willing to drain people like John/Brainless/JG etc dry of good advice)

Well said Kazstaff.
I only give advice on things I've experienced myself, which have worked on my dogs (doesn't mean to say it'll work on all dogs, everyone's different). It's the same with books, you pick what you think will work on your dog, depending on their personality.;)

Sarah.

I also firmly believe that there are as many solutions to a problem as there are dogs! So all potential solutions may be the one that 'clicks'. The usual solutions have been tried and tested over the years - and indeed have made their way to the printed page. But none of us know everything, and any new 'unorthodox' treatment to a problem should challenged and be carefully examined from every angle, and all possible side-effects noted and passed on.
:)

Edit: Never forgetting, of course, that this is an international forum, and 'accepted practice' in one country may be unethical, or even illegal, in another.
:)

I can't remember if i have questioned advice from you or not Nicole - i try to be polite when i discuss other people's advice, as we all have different experiences with dogs and learning and sharing is important. I am passionate about training and sometimes have to stop myself from leaping in and saying "oh my god, no no no!!! " with some advice (not yours ;) )

I agree owners must pick and choose, but then the other side of that is that there are some people who come on and pretend to be very knowledgeabel and give very worrying advice indeed that many of us can see is going to lead to problems. Not so long ago a very worried owner was told her staffie was showing predatory instincts by a so-called expert, and needed correction. Ha! in fact the dog was showing defensive aggression as many of us thought. That was later born out when she visited a behaviourist and got some great advice :) If that lady had followed this other advice it could have destroyed her dog forever, yet that advice came across as being from a knowledgeable person.

I must admit i do worry about the advice given to hold a pup's tongue - not saying it doesn't work, maybe it does for all i know, but most owneres would find it difficult to grab a pup's tongue and not hurt. If you grab the tongue of a very reactive breed for example like my Terv, she would have gone completely off the wall :) No offence meant, i'm just trying to explain why we all say what we do :)

I have to say i do so agree with John's post, it is very difficult to give advice over the net withoiut the potentiail of causing harm :( Witness the most recent post of an aggressive Lab puppy (owners thought very aggressive) and once a more knowledgeable person visited this dog, he was deemed to be absollutely normal.... :)

I really hope you will continue to post here on Champdogs, we can all learn from each other :)

Lindsay