Not being a GSD breeder I hope that I am will not be flamed for giving my opinion of what Dizzy is talking about!
Having looked at the supplement (very briefly) one dog stood out as not being what my interpretaion of the standard calls for and he was awarded VA11.
and for further clarification I have been an admirer of GSD's for many years though not so in the last few, mainly because I do not attend the shows that I used to and used to be friends with a lady who was very well known in the breed but no longer with us Mrs Rankin.
Yes I know Bill Siggers or rather who he was, I have shown under him many times. He awarded one of my afghans many moons ago a Best Bitch at a champ show, before CC's were on offer for the breed.
Yes, also like Dizzy, I look at other breeds and form an opinion of them, I do not see any harm in that, and as I have done this all the years I have been in dogs I think it helps form an 'eye for a dog'. Many a time over the years I have watched Gundogs and formed opinions of them, and Dobermanns, and more, no I have never owned these breeds.
It looks as though Dizzy will not say so but for information, does just happen to have the top dog in her breed and without checking think that this is the second or third year running and has created breed history, and knowing some background does know 'her dogs' (meaning she can tell a good one and not just in her breed) and agree that this would be, as this is mine 'her opinion' on the matter of the GSD's.
There really is no need to be so defensive, I thought there was enough problem with the 'divide' in the breed as it was.

Lorahs, I assume that you are talking about Sheila Rankin? I didn't know she had passed away, I only spoke to her a few months ago!

LOL, and oops!
Sorry, I knew that as I wrote the name Mrs Rankin I had it wrong!
Thank you for putting me right.
I am putting it down to a 'senior moment', which is still with me as I cannot remember who I am on about :-) (talking about the late 60's here).
Thank you
:-)

Lorahs

there is only a divide in the Uk & in the USA-they have three types over there !

Agree with you. The Lindellas dogs are nice, but I've been told they're very small! (not sure if this is true or not!) :) That's the shape a GSD should be!!

Sarah.

the pictures of the lindella doga are lovley--------i agree, i think ive seen one in the champion stake classes too, it was well balanced---this isnt the topline im meaning to be wrong,

It seems a sad day if anyone gets "blasted" for passing an opinion on a breed of dog they dont have! Incidentally the "if it moves right its made right" is as far as I'm concerened, done to death. First of all you need to know how a particular breed should move - I'm sick of hearing this in my breed, as usually it means that the dog with the longest stride wins, and it is inevitably longer in the back than it should be.

i think i must of touched a sore point fillis--why else react the way they did.

:D For goodness sake, dont mention double handling :D

i didnt!!!!!! i only mentioned a few iffy toplines :rolleyes: wasnt brave enough to mention the shocking double handling that goes on in the breed or the scabbling---etc

I mentioned it though dizzy!;)

im still waiting for an opinion on the few ive asked about in the supplement, ??????? should be interesting how we all veiw them
the names are further up.

I admit I know nothing about the breed, but what fascinates me is the fact that they are shown in a manner which, to me, looks as though they are cowering and frightened to death - hardly what you would expect from a GSD.

Fillis you think Timo looks frightened to death ????????????????????????? with ears pricked & looking forward without the choker tight up round his ears ? Are we actually looking at the same photograph ?

Well all I can say is when i met him he was neither cowed nor frightened & very good with my pain in the a** Cavaliers

Hi dizzy, Can't comment on the dogs you've mentioned, but if you go to Genejenie's link, then look at the dogs we've suggested, you'll get an idea of what we're speaking about.

Sarah.

ill look now, and pic a couple i like------it was cavielover i was hoping to give her opinion, as i feel she has the argument all to herself .

right the one i liked best is rome vom pallas athena-i also liked fando vom sudblick----frei von hirschel- spelling might be wrong

i didnt like--santo vom wildsteigerland-jupp von der haller farm---uk von arlet

Dizzy who is Cavielover ? I have dogs not rodents

I do not judge dogs nor give opinions based on photographs which rely heavily on the skill of the photographer & handler I prefer Timo who someone on here as looking as it he is frightened to death, to any of the dogs in the supplement including the German dogs from the Sieger show this year

Yes I know he has an awful roach back & long ski slope croup :D in the opinion of all the members of this forum but me lol However I have met him seen him move & oh yes work ! tracking agility retrieve manwork etc what he was bred to do & I prefer him to anything else I have seen recently but JMHO

Not that it will interest people here but the Sieger is not solely a beauty competition but takes into account the dogs contribution to the breed hence the inclusion of Timo the grey dog to improve colour & bone etc A very alien concept to the UK the fact that the judge will know the breeding etc of all the dogs entered before the show

It might interest you to know Cavalierfan that I have Gsds IE middle of the road that have excelled in working trials and have all been hipscored well below average I use a combination of what I believe to be the cream of german bloodlines without the roach I believe that the english and german gsd have a lot to offer each other and its ignorant people who cant see past their their own nose that are this breeds worst enemy whatever you think of the English side a lot of us do hipscore and do breed sound dogs that are probably more correct to the standard than a few of the POORLY BRED GERMAN DOGS AND THE HEAVY ENGLISH DOGS and are not afraid to say that somerimes we might get it wrong but at least at lot of us do try to breed sound healthy gsds without any problems
edited to say that you think lindellas dogs are overly angulated in rear end well they do come from german breeding same as my own
Janines

What are you talking about hip scoring for ? Are you suggesting that Timo is poorly bred ? because you don't like him ? He is an improver for hips & bone & has many offspring working for a living not just doing trials-Our local police have several of his offspring which is how I came to met him-my late husband was a dog handler/tutor here before he died-& they are excellent workers

Having been around UK GSD's when some were heavily line bred to known epileptics & when I look today some"English"breeders are still line breeding to the same dog who died of"a tired"heart I hardly call that responsible nor do I consider people who breed for one aspect such as colour or coat responsible regardless of "type"

Yes there are people who breed in Europe to lines carrying epilepsy, creams long coats, bad hips etc & keep very quiet about it, but people are aware of them as well as of those who breed from the Haemophillia lines. However they will be found out once DNA testing is done

I give up call yourself a lover of gsds GOD WE CAN DO WITHOUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU see past your nose for gods sake did I mention that the dog you refereed to was poorly bred NO I THINK NOT I said that each side has a lot to offer the other . edited to say that I have dogs THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE MET AND BEEN VERY GOOD AT THE JOB THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING ALSO AND ALSO EDITED TO SAY THAT SOME OF THE GERMAN LINES DO INDEED GO BACK TO THAT EPLIEPTIC DOG THAT YOU ARE REFERING TO a lot of the NON gsd people on here wont know who you are referring to BUT I DO but also edited to say that they dont have a hump in their back
Janines

Pardon me ? I have never called myself a lover of GSDs & why the shouting isn't that considered rude ? & & please do not use blasphemy I find that very offensive)(Edited to add the use of the word God in block capitals & out of context is blasphemy)

Obviously if I do not agree with your opinion I am short sighted ! Like using the "English"bloodlines to improve the German German Shepherds over here in temperament, construction, colour,coat, health, working ability glamour etc etc Sorry IMHO the breed over here is doing OK without doing this

edited to add these links to the dog Hendrawens Quadrille of Eveley that you did not name

So are you inGermany, Cavalierfan? If so, then you'd surely agree that Hussan vom Haus Schutting is a beautiful dog (one of the best of his time) - where are his like now?

Sorry I have already said I do not pass comments on photographs of dogs that can be altered & rely on the skill of the photographer & handler I take it you do not like Timo either

Should I start looking for photographs of your breeds from 70 years ago ? Guess the Labradors, Poodles, Afghans etc might look just a tad different :D & Cavaliers hardly even existed way back then :O, but they have course have all progressed whilst the poor GSD has gone from super to bad:(I certainly would not want an Avion Prince offspring from the time when he was top dog the temperaments over in the UK were so bad they had to change the breed standard to include"a noted suspicion of strangers"so that the dogs could nlot be faulted if they refused to be handled or went for the judge. Glad I had German bred Brittas dogs in the 50's early 60's with no English bloodlines & no Avon Prince(he was the most coloured paled dog I ever had the misfortune to see)

In Germany ? no why should I be in Germany ? because I like German breeding ? Sorry no I'm not in Germany

Did anyone mention that they did not like Timo or have I missed something it is my birthday I am worse for wear with 2 bottles of wine but I think not

Jnaines

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!

CHEERS
JANINES

youve passed comments on 2 of the dogs from the article in one of your first posts--near the top of this thread. -----so ive no idea why you cant pass comment on the pictures ive asked you to look at, to see if you disagree with my ideas of balance-----if you dont want to because of the dog-lets forget the dog, wether its a good picture-touched up-roach added or removed-but as they are on the pictures taken

Timo was NOT in the supplement & I said the Siegerin looked nice but preferred Timo

I also said the dog in the "English"kennel "looked"long & would like to see it in movement as it"looked"over angulated I did not said I liked disliked any dog as you cannot tell from photographs which can make a good dog look bad & vica versa I should know I used to"correct"photographs of dogs(not GSDs) back in the 1970's to make them appear better than the originals because they were not taken by a dog photographer lol

So what do u think of mine please bear in mind that they do indeed come thru german breeding
www.janinesgsds.co.uk

Janines

" i can only hope you dont do much judging."from Dizzy & you ask me to comment on your dogs ????? Janines why would I want to they are probably very pleasant animals that you love dearly & are correct to your interpretation of the breed standard & breed to improve the GSDs in the UK & also I get told I write a load of rubbish as well so whatever I say I will be wrong If I say they are super I'll be creeping & if I say I don't like them I'll be baised because they have"English" breeding

havent you learned along the way to give an honest., clear answer to anything-everyone else has managed it, --give it a try, you might even suprise yourself.

Probably best that u dont seeing that the majority of their breeding is german

Janines

At the end of the day they are my girls and from the way you are so biased I really dont want an opinion from you my girls have done enough not to need it I love them and thats what really matters, and if you knock them you are knocking the german blodlines in this country one kennel really comes into the picture in there pedigrees are you clever enough to figure out which one

Janines

how kennel blind can one person be-not to mention akward. -you seem able to pass comments on some, but not others, you twist posts people have added to make it sound as if theyve disagreed when they havent. --why cant you pass comments on pictures, as they are, regardless of wether theyve been touched up----to see what you consider correct, as for attitudes on here, theyd have to get a lot worse to be as abrasive as yours,

I didn,t use blashemy I gave you my opinion its just that you seem so short sighted and will not accept what each other can offer the other we need to improve the breed on both sides how can we when each side will not fully accept the failings I have been brought up with shepherds since I was 10 and have followed it through you have to agree that there are definetly faults on both sides of the camp and its upto us to put it right I dont like to see heavy overbuilt dogs but nor do I like to see weak bones humty backed dogs there has to be a comprimise edited to say that its not just just the english then that are line breeding to ths dog then is its german lines are too

Janines

The Germans do not line breed to Quadrille the Germanic names are not imports nor german dogs I could register an all English bred dog as Otto Von Den Demien for example

AHHHHHHHHH but I know DIFFERENT not mentioning names as that is unacceptable

Janines

So the Germans in Germany are line breeding to Quadrille :O ! I must do a search on their pedigree database & look for his descendents Give me a clue are they the pure working side or show/working dogs & were any at the Sieger this year please it would speed up my search. Or did you mean in the UK people with GSD's who use German dogs have bitches from lines bred to Quadrille Now that I do know about & is why I only ever had pure import lines like those I had from Mrs Barrington

I give up with you did I say pure german lines in germany why wont you reason with anyone, like someone said earlier lets get your dogs on the net and see if you can take the hammering that you give to everyone else

Janines

Why are you so against english breeders just asking a question merely to find out would love to know especially as most english breeders have gone back to german lines please help me to understand

Janines

I'm not against English breeders, I have no real interest in what they breed except when they call them 1) Alsatians & 2)decry German German shepherds as Roach backed & fine boned A roach back is the shape of a Bedllingtom Terrier i.e. the back rises from the Withers in an arc/curve

I'm English so if I bred I would be an Englsh breeder

I call my girls GSDS

Even you must admit though as you are so keen to dismiss the heavy english dogs that there are some bad examples of german dogs out there now with the roach back even you surely canot argue on that one
JANINES

"I have never called myself a lover of GSDs "

But you own or have owned GSD's??
Why own them if you don't love them?

quote !!!! the breed OVER HERE IS DOING OK --so where is OVER HERE - :D oops. -your not german are you. :rolleyes:
if not then you must just be confused----as germanys OVER THERE!!!! and were OVER HERE .

Try Europe excluding the UK

"your not german are you" did you mean you're not German ?

I'm not German nor in Germany why all the interest ???? Because I haven't asked you where you live I'm living in Europe

"were OVER HERE" did you mean we're over here ?

Blimey now I am confused watching TV in one language & typing in another lol

as most of your posts have been gobbleygook. --just continue in the same style-we wont notice,

Totally confused

Janines

Hi Sarah,
I like that Hussan as well! Interestingly, he was German Seiger in 1932(see here. How the German dogs have changed!