Would anyone want to have a go at explaining why over the past year or so there has been a steady supply of purebred dogs (puppies) imported for sale in the Atlanta area. This list of breeds include Westies (my passion),Yorkies, Soft-Coated Wheatens, Kerry Blues, Jack Russells, Cavaliers, actually the list goes on and on. How and why would this be possible? Is this prevalent in other major U.S.cities or is it limited to the Atlanta area? .....Bee

Welcome to the forum Bee.
I would hazard a guess that someone has found a cheap supply of puppies in Ireland and has decided to make a quick buck :-) There must be a demand for puppies or they wouldn't be going to such lengths to import them. As to how wide spread the problem is in the USA, I have no idea.What does everyone else think?

For the record, I have to tell you, re the irish soft coated wheaten terriers. A pup going to america from my friend would be easily 2000 dollars, I know there is not a flow of them going as they are rare enough. But I do know that most wheaten terriers sent to america are from england, this is fact leigh. My friend regularly does seminars over there, and specimens of the breed for her appraisal are from england . There are very little registered jack russels in ireland and I think there are two parsons being showed at the moment. so the supply of jacks are not from Ireland either. Having said that I know there are are puppies going out from Ireland as well as england scotland and wales , there will always be exporters of puppies,which has been discussed here on many occasions but it is not true that they are all coming cheaply from Ireland . Sorry to be on the defensive here Leigh but a guess is not good enough best wishes Mari

Hiya Mari,

No need to apologize, for being a bit defensive :-) Bee did ask for opinions? Specifically asking about Irish Imports rather than English,Welsh or Scottish :-) Maybe Bee can be a bit more specific about numbers? Are the puppies for sale from retail outlets? As you rightly said Mari, puppies will be shipped from all area's of the UK, but Bee did say Ireland.You are right,there will always be 'wholesale' puppy exporters :-( and if money isn't the incentive, what is?

Leigh

To partially answer/respond to comments. . . I have not called the telephone number listed in the adds for the puppies. However it is the same number for all ads and the ads run continuely with only slight variation of what breeds are available. Since I primarily take note of the Westies, I can tell you, the ads have been constant and the price for Westies in the ad is US$875 which is almost double the price in other ads. I think the soft coated wheatens run around US$1000 and the cavaliers are usually the most ranging from US$1500-2500. If you want to read the ads I think you can access them at ----- ajcPets.com ---- I understand there is a monetary motive from the seller here in Atlanta, what I cannot understand is how there could be so many different breeds and for over such a long period of time. Even through the height of the 'foot/mouth' crisis last year . . . they were still being imported. I only posed the question, because I was curious if anyone on your side thought it odd/unusual because of the volume and variation of breeds available.

US$875 = £615. US$1000 = £703. US$1500 = £1,054.54p.US$2500 = £1,757.35p

Now I feel stupid . . . after giving you the email address for the ads I checked and their ad for westies is not there today . . . I guess I should have checked before speaking. However, their ads have been running on previous weekends. The telephone number, always the same 770-297-3181. Anyway, I do appreciate the comments your members have given on the subject. Thanks for you time.

Bee, keep checking back. I am sure that Mari will be interested in what you have hilighted :-)

I get the impression that dogs generally are cheaper in Ireland than in the UK, therefore I suppose the puppy farmers also charge less, so it means a dealer in the US would get a better mark up on the price for the 'goods' :(

I also wonder whether there may be less red tape with the export paperwork and the airlines?

Unfortunately there are puppy farmers everywhere. Responsible breeders only ever export the occasional individual dog.

We get commercial Kennels in UK sourcing Puppies in Northern Ireland to my certain Knowledge, as there is one set of people selling them our breed, and it is where most of our rescues come from.

sorry brainless show puppies in ireland are the same price as england A bullmastiff pup is £700 here a shar pei is£700 an ISCWT IS £4OO more than that for export ,. toys are also three or four hundred pounds some westies are £300to £400 collies are £350 to £450.YOU can like every other country get the backyard dogs for half that , but no Ireland is not cheap for dogs , truly . best wishes , mari

Yes I most certainly would Leigh . I know I could not do much about it , but I could make it public as long as I had facts and figures , mari

I saw an add in loot from an Irish "breedrer" looking for someone to sell in the manchester area.
Out of morbid curiousity I rang. She asked which breeds were popular and how much they sell for, I asked did she breed a few different breeds and she said that she could get any breed if it would sell. She said she could buy cheap pups out of local ads and just wanted someone in the Manchester area to sell them for her for a cut of the profits. UNBELIEVEABLE!

Hi I am new to the board, I nearly passed out when I read your post. When is our goverment going to stop all this.
Can you imagine the treatment all these poor pups get. Who is the breeders selling to these people also.

There a larger punishments for dropping litter in the street.

I bought a Westie 6 months ago and believe me I saw a few hell holes before a good lady took me by the hand and introduced me to a good breeder.

I wish I could help stamp out this behavior.

The fact that you bought from a good breeder is a start! Just make sure you spread the word, every one person you draw away is an achievement.

Sounds a little bit dodgy to me. I would be wary about buying a pup from such a place, but maybe i am wrong; wouldnt be the first time.

In Chicago I see adds for Cavaliers all the time, same number, supposedly private breeder. I've never called, but have wondered about it. I shall check all the ads next time to see if there are more breeds coming from same number. Really makes you wonder what is going on.

Just to chuck another idea into the pot. We know that a certain person is using Ireland as a way of exporting dogs from England using the reciprocal agreement between the KC and the Irish KC as a means of getting rid of the "Not For Export" endorsement. In the past these dogs we know found their way mainly to Japan and the Far East but??????

Regards John

Thanks John I knew about that arrangement , well heard of it . so could not comment as i dont have the facts , but I do know some of the dogs going to japan are for the table , so thankful for small mercies the ones going to america are not for eating mari

Hi John & Mari,

You have me worried. How does this wrinkle work? I live in Scotland now, but I'm from Northern Ireland, go home regularly, and so sell some pups (always endorsed not for export & progeny not for registration) in Ireland north & south.

Sharon

PS Mari, I got a bit defensive too when I saw the beginning of this thread :-), and I can confirm that pedigree pups cost just as much in both parts of Ireland as they do in GB.

Hi Sharon touchy lot arent we:o . yep and some of the native breeds are an arm and a leg to buy . but it is cleared up now , no cheap puppies in Ireland . except from the dodgy breeders .we have to admit sharon they are here as well.:o I am going to let john answer you on the registration fiddle as he knows a lot more about it than I do . no point in giving you second hand info .best wishes mari

Basically the way it works is that a dealer buys a puppy posing as a normal puppy buyer. When the documentation arrives if there is a not for export or not for breeding endorsement the puppy (puppies) are shipped to Ireland where the Irish KC have a reciprocal agreement with our KC. New registration Documents are raised which no longer have the endorsements and away the puppies go!

There are also ways by which the British KC will overrule a breeder and remove the endorsements themselves that I have heard of but I won’t go into them on an open board, it may give others reading it ideas.

Suffice to say that the price good quality puppies fetch in some parts of the world make this a lucrative trade!

Regards, John

Since I started this, I felt I should atleast do my share to resolve the open-ended speculation on the subject. So, I rang up the number, which I hadn't had the nerve to do before. I started by asking about the Cavalier, which there are (3) all different ages, same price US$1800 each they were imported from Ireland, along with about a dozen other breeds; which according to the girl who answered the phone they are doing to help improve the breeds here in the states, which she tells me are mostly "linebred & inbred" But the puppies they import from Ireland come from an extremely reputable breeder in Ireland, Melody's cousin (the woman here who sells them) who has a well established kennel in Kildaire,Ireland. Her cousin's kennel in Kildaire never breeds before 2-years of age, never breeds her more than 3-4 times and then retires them after age 6-to-8. I think this girl on the phone is the same person who gives the advise on some of the internet sites as to what to ask breeders when looking into buying puppies. (smiley face needed here)
She also had one little westie for me "show quality" for US$875 - but only the one. They are expecting another shipment in shortly, which will include many other breeds they are out of presently. And no---they are not a pet store or retailstore; she does it privately to accommodate the need for quality puppies locally, as well as worldwide; a puppy just left for Chili (South America).
Once again, thank you for your time and giving me the guts to call them.

Bee. kildare is only 80 miles from where I live so I can ask a few people at the st patricks day show in march if they have any knowledge of a person breeding all those different breeds. I would guess it is a dealer buying from different people , or as john says bringing them in for the re reg , I dont know what can be done about it though as It is legal . I wish it was not so. but thats the way it is .best wishes mari

Well Bee I have made extensive inquiries since by phone, this woman is either hidden in the mountains or not there at all . kildare is a small town where everyone knows everyone else. there are people that breed westies . there are people that have other breeds , but no cavaliers. and nobody that has all the breeds together. funnily enough though I have been told that they were probably brought over on the ferry from wales . to an agent of a dealer in wales in order to avail of the re reg loophole. and stay untill they are 12 weeks . Then up the twenty miles to the airport for export . Whoever the agent is more than likely buys some more puppies in Ireland as well. but that is all I have on it for now best wishes mari

Mari....Happy V-Day, and thanks for taking the time to check out these Irish puppies for me..I have to chuckle when you said the person in Kildaire must be hidden in the mountains somewhere, because the woman selling them here stateside, is in fact, up in the mountains of North Georgia,:D:D:D which is why she is probably evading the attention of the local/state regulators. I hope I haven't come off as a 'die-hard'---'bleeding-heart-liberal'----animal rights activist; really I'm not, I just have a very very soft spot, especially for dogs and cats ?Maybe I am just a little.?

I agree with your original scenario of a dealer/broker in Ireland collecting puppies from various puppyfarms, and undoubtedly from all accross the U.K. because not all ads say Ireland some only say 'imported'. But I didn't realize that you had dealer/brokers over there, but I guess they're everywhere. :(:(. Alot of the puppies advertised are only 6-to-8 weeks old, they must certainly be some taken from the mother way to early and some maybe older than stated, to collect them all at one time for a "shipment" ....Poor babies.

Without turning this into a post too long to read, I will close in saying the only consolation in the story of these puppies is that the dealer over here atleast has them priced high enough that they are most likely going to good homes with atleast enough
financial means to care for them.:)

And as you said, there is really not any way to prevent them from carrying out their scheme.

Thanks again.
Bee

My family has imported dogs from Ireland but they have all been hunting dogs.......Irish setters, English setters etc... the reason is my father is from there and says the dogs r better from there

well we are a biased lot as well :). :d