After reading recent posts about not stopping your dog from growling one of my 17 week old Bichons has started growling regularly when something happens to upset her eg. the lab sitting beside her, my husband or me putting our hands into the crate even to pet her, one of the kids doing something she doesn't like although they are not doing anything that should annoy her.

Mostly a growl is all she gives but sometimes we get a snap to follow also. This is frightening for the kids in particular. They are good with all my dogs as they have been brought up with a dog in the house since they were born. In fact as I mentioned in a recent thread they have been taught about reinforcing the pecking order and respect for the dogs as we had to get rid of a dominant dog who bit my son. Any thoughts on how we can nip this in the bud before it progresses and someone gets bitten? She is quite a nervy dog. I would hate her to turn into a snappy little dog that we can't live with.

Hallo :)

Your pup could be doing this for all sorts of reasons. I appreciate you are trying to do your very best esp. after having a dog previously that bit. Can you give a little of the history of that dog and whether you had it from a pup? And what happened when it bit your son?

I see that just one of the Bichons is doing this - has she ever been dropped ? What specifically makes you feel she is a nervy little dog? (If she lacks confidence this could well be part of the problem.)

Lastly, what are the children doing that she may not like? I understand from what you have said that the children are well behaved towards dogs, but for example are they going to stroke her, or what?

Do you take the pups to any training or pup socialisatoin classes?

Sorry for all the questions, it's important to build up a bit of a picture and not jump to conclusions :)

Lindsay

Hi now this is not being said to upset anyone but children being children will be rough with apup/dog when you are out of the room or out of view it doesnt mean they are bad kids but you must understand a pup/dog will not put up with it for long and this is what it sounds like to me and you have said that you have got rid of one dog because it bit your son why did it bite?

I am not a completely ignorant dog owner or parent! My children are never unsupervised with any of the dogs. None of them are tiny children and well understand what is acceptable and unacceptable and I never leave it to chance having had one bad experience. Do you honestly think after 5 stitches in my son's hand(could have been his face!) that I would let them ever be unsupervised with a dog again?

Why is it so often assumed that these situations are the child's fault? There are occassions where that is so, but there can also be many other factors at play. The dog who bit was a 10 month entire male golden retriever. He was always hard to handle,very mouthy despite a great deal of bite inhibition training and totally fixated with me. The decision to rehome him to a couple with no "pack" only came having spent a great deal of time and money with a behaviourist and our vet. It broke my heart but I could never trust him again. My husband witnessed the attack. It was totally unprovoked and my son and the dog had a history of being very good together. The dog was simply putting my son in his place in the pecking order of our pack as his nearest perceived threat to my affections as eldest child ie. the pack of which he formed a part. That was 4 years ago now. We have owned a lab for 3 and a half years who has been a total joy apart from some scavenging. I got her as I felt confident that we had learned a great deal about preventing these things and I did not want the children to be terrified of dogs after what happened.

We have 2 18 week old Bichons. One of them is a placid easy going dog who is happy to be groomed and is keen to please. My problem girl is not easy going. She prefers not be touched in certain places and growls and snaps if you do. She growled and snapped at the vet at her 2nd injection and refused to have her ears checked. She has also growled and snapped at me if I try to groom her hindquarters. I am clearly not a child and I am certainly never rough with her! This is how she is showing her displeasure. She also does it to my other dogs when they get on her nerves. They are not children either!

I have spoken to the breeder today for advice. She knows me and my children well and would not have homed her pups with my family had she not been happy with the way that we handle our dogs.( By the way they all go to classes.)She assures me from her many years 'experience of the breed that Bichons come in 2 types exactly as described,placid and bossy(not nervey-I used a bad description). She has told me that my snappy girl is a bossy Bichon who needs to be shown her place in a gentle but firm manner and that she should not be allowed to think that she can get away with snapping when life doesn't go her way. I will take her advice for my dogs thank you.

I made it plain in my original post that the children were not to blame- believe me I am here and I know what goes on. I was looking for advice in handling my dog NOT my children.

Gee

I think your breeder is right when she says "handle in a gentle but firm manner". Your dogs problem could be fear related or just a 'balshy bitch' phase, it is often difficult to tell.

Could it be that with your previous experience you are a little scared of her when she behaves like this? They will pick that up very quickly. If this is the case I would suggest a muzzle when you groom and handle her (not to be left on). You can get the canvas type that the vets use, that would give you the confidence that she couldn't bite you. Then gently handle her by running your hands over her, when she accepts that, use a soft brush gently on her. Make her stand while holding her collar during the handling, you might find it easier on a table, but make sure she has a non slip mat to stand on. Take it slowly but firmly, I wouldn't shout at her if she goes for you just carry on knowing she can't bite.

With her growling at you while she is in her cage, I would leave a light nylon lead on her while you are around and call her to you with a tidbit while you have hold of the lead. If she growls at you gently but firmly pull her out, when she comes to you of her own accord, it need only be a step, give her the treat.

The important thing with all of this is not to show you are frightened of her, but handle the situation confidently. I would also make sure you are on your own with her while you both build your confidence in each other. Put the other dogs away too. You have to stop this now or it will only get worse as it becomes a habit.

Don't give her any privilages during this time, no on the sofa, no cuddles, no treats without working for them.

I wish you luck, let us know how you get on.

Sandra

Thank you so much Sandra. :)This is spot on. I wouldn't say I am scared of her as she is still very little and only has baby teeth. I know that at this point she can't do too much damage but I am certainly uptight now. My breeder suggested the same way of handling her for grooming sessions. I will try the line idea...it makes absolute sense. What sort of length would you suggest, my concern being that she doesn't strangle herself with it in her cage. I work with all the dogs separately every day but I will try several short sessions with her every day. She is very reluctant to come whether it's from in her cage or under the table but the line would work with this too I suppose.

When you suggest I make her work for her privileges such as a cuddle on the sofa, what kind of work do you mean please?

I don't want this to become a habit as you say and that's exactly why I posted. She is certainly more work than the other two. She wakes very early and will eat her own and the other dogs' poo if you don't watch her like a hawk. Having said that she's a lovely girl who's full of affection so long as you don't cross her. I hope that she will grow up to be a happy well-mannered dog with whom we can enjoy years of companionship. I am quite prepared to work for that.
Gill :)

Gill

The length of the lead would be as long as you can get in a thin lightweight nylon one. If you have a haberdashery shop nearby they may have something similar you can buy by the metre, you will just have to attach it to a clip. I certainly wouldn't leave it on her unsupervised but put it on during one of your sessions with her and let her retire to bed or under the table.

Working for her privileges - By this I mean just doing simple things for you. You call her, she comes. You ask her to sit, she sits, all you are doing is showing her that you are the leader and when asked to do something you don't expect her to argue. Keep it very simple at first, just things you know she can do, then start to show her new things when she is doing this in a happy manner.

Personally the only privilege I would award her at this stage is a stroke and a good girl. I would keep her off of your furniture where she thinks she is of equal status to you. If she jumps on the furniture and you haven't invited her it is even worse, as she will see she is above you and doesn't need to ask permission from her leader. Obviously everyone in your household will have to follow the rules. When she starts behaving as you want then you can start introducing the nice things in life to her again.

I am not heavily into 'I'm the boss and you will obey' but you do need to have mutual respect to live in harmony with each other. It will come, she is only a baby, don't be confrontational, just firm.

Sandra

Thanks for the clarification Sandra. I'll give it a go and let you know how we get on. I appreciate the help and avdice very much.
Gill:)

Gill,

I agree that the advice from the breeder sounds sensible and also Sandra's advice re. long line, working for privileges etc..... many of us do advocate this sort of training with difficult little dogs :).

I'm not sure if your second post was directed at me or Corso girl. In my view, it is nothing short of stupid for ANY advisor to attempt help unless they ask a few questions and get a better overall view. It's probably not wise to even give advice over the net as no-one can see the dogs, circumstances, methods, environments etc etc of the posters, but we do our best :)

With your second post, i for one learnt more about your situation, which was what i wanted. However, it WAS necessary to discuss a little about your first dog that snapped. Believe me, so many owners think their dog has snapped with no warning when there has been ample warning, evern the dog going out the room when the child walks in is the begining of trouble, but how many owners see that? :(

Its clear you aren't like that, but we aren't mind readers...;) hence the questions.

We on here dont know you and you have to appreciate that. We all try hard to give advice, we don't always agree and have different experiences, but do our best :)

I must admit, i actually feel a bit upset by your reaction. I bumped this post up because at first no-one had replied, and i felt help was needed :(

Lindsay

Lindsay, i think she was mad a t me for asking about her children if you dont ask you dont find out anything? i was not saying anything about her kids but she took it that way. I dont think i said anything bad but there you go!

Lindsay,
Corsogirl is correct I was replying to her. I should have made it much clearer who I was replying to. Sorry. She immediately assumed that the children were the problem unlike you and launched into a whole lecture about dogs and children. This is a subject that I have made it my business to find out about as our first dog was a horrible experience for us all to say nothing of the cost involved.(£650 for the dog, £550 in vets fees, £575 in behaviourists fees and £1500 to tile the floor that he ate the lino from:() Perhaps I should have been even stronger in saying that my children are NOT allowed to be with the dogs on their own and are quite definitely not my pup's problem.

I fully appreciate that warnings can be given that people might not pick up if they are inexperienced dog owners. I have had dogs since I was a child but I am nowhere near as experienced as many of the dog owners on here. However my retriever ( my first dog as an independent adult)gave no warning of his feelings that I could pick up and none that his extremely experienced breeder picked up either. She is my next door neighbour and was around almost everyday (to make matters more awkward), also a teacher in my son's school and also one of the stalwarts of our local dog training club. It was highly perplexing to us all.

This situation is quite different to my first dog in that she is giving warning and I wanted to know should I let her growl as we had none of this with the retriever but how to stop it progressing? Maybe this was not something that advice should be given remotely on and I should have phoned the behaviourist on.(MORE money:( )

I had no objection to answering your questions (which I did in my 2nd post) just to the assumptions made by Corsogirl when I thought that I had been clear about the kids. Obviously I wasn't. Sorry for upsetting you. I am grateful for the advice offered.Honestly!:)

Regards
Gill

Hallo Gill

<<sorry for upsetting you...>>

Oh Gill that's OK :) - i guess i am a bit touchy today, one of those days, you know? ;)

You certainly sound as if you are a very dedicated dog owner, and if you don't even allow your children and dogs to be on their own together, then you can't do much more from the safety angle :) :)

I do hope you manage to sort things out with your little Bichon; please let us know how you get on?

Best wishes
Lindsay
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Thanks for that Lindsay.:) I'm on the touchy side myself just now... let's just say it's our age.:D I recently posted on idle chat to ask for ideas on what to feed the family for a change and that ended up in a lecture from another poster about family eating habits. Perhaps I am posting in a particular fahion that might lead people to feel that things are problematic with my kids too.:D

Oh well,I'm glad we're alright and I will certainly let you know how my girl gets on. Everyday brings new challenges with her. Yesterday was a poo eating day so I started them all on the Deter. Today she appears to have forgotten where to wee.:D It's as well I love her!

Best wishes
Gill
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Life is never boring with dogs, is it!!! Have fun ;)

Lindsay
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