hello everyone

oh dear oh dear ruby and i had a nasty experience earlier this week - as i posted earlier she's always been a bit wary of other dogs (only 15 wks old, only dog in our house so not surprised really... she's seen and been around other dogs since we got her but not really interacted with them, we're starting pup classes in 2 or 3 weeks which should help that)

well - we were out walking in our local fields on tues and one of the paths is quite narrow and overgrown. ruby's on her extender and happily trotting away by me when all of a sudden out of NOWHERE these two very boistrous westies ran up to her and chased her into the ditch by the path desperately trying to play/sniff her - not sure what really but i don't think they were biting her. well she was petrified and it took abou 5 mins - no kidding - for their owner to catch up and help me separate them all. i didn't want to do anything to provoke them into being aggressicve to me or rubes so had no luck in being able to pick ruby up until the owner appeared. well i'd got really distressed and was scritching at them adn when i finally picked her up i just walked straight off pretty much, didn't want to make it even worse for her by going off at the woman (or do so in the heat of the moment in case i wasn't fair to her)

ewll i carried ruby a few metres down to where its open space again, put her down and crouched with her for a few mins to reassure her and catch my breath (and try to stop bursting into tears - it was so horrible! her little squeaks were heart-breaking :( ) And then we walked home - she didnt' seem stressed, was happily bouncing along at end of her lead. and when we came onto the road, the lady and her pair of evil pup-molesterers (i know i know they were just playful - it was her fault for not having them under reasonable control, not theirs for being dogs!) were ont he other side of the road and ruby started pulling at her little leash towards them wagging her tail! [i know its prob that she was showing alertness/'ready to go' rather then happiness but at least she didn't roll straight on to her back!]

so i thought she was ok - the next day dad took her on the same walk and she was nervous of going down that path again, but he coaxed her down there adn it was fine. same happened yesterday.

also, for the first time the day after the horrible incident, we had a friend come round here with their dog. he's v placid and just sat by his owner's legs, was more nervous of ruby than she was of him! well she bounded into the room merrily but when she saw the other dog (instead of just owner as expected) she did a weeny submissive piddle. they stayed for about half an hour and although they didn't play, ruby did bob up to within about an inch of him at one point! brave girl ;) she did decide that it was much nicer to be on my lap though, but i was kneeling pretty close to the other dog.

I'm worried that ruby'll get a fear of other dogs - does anyone have any advice? am particularly worried as the pup-savaging westies live in a cottage 5 doors up form ours and that's their regular walk - am petrified it will happen agian. its occurred to me that asking the lady who owns them whether we could introduce them in a controlled way (ie all on leads, esp the westies) over a number of meetings would be the least she could do to make sure that that experience with her dogs doesn't screw my pup up. or i guess i could just find out when they go for walks and avoid these times like the plague....!

The pup class trainer's coming for a home visit on saturday pre-starting classes so obviously i'll discuss it with him as i don't want the classes to scare her even more.

any advice would be very much appreciated..... x

For one I wouldn't be holding her when the other dog was over to visit, you are just showing her that it is ok to be this way. T-Bone was very much like that all scared and scittish and when other dogs would come over to sniff her she would hide behind my leg at dog class, so I picked her up. BIG NO NO by the teacher. She told me that all I was doing was inforcing her behavior (mind you at home, or outside she is fine with dogs just didn't feel to comfortable in class). They told me to put her in a sit praise/treat and take one step away, too basically ignore her when she acted like that and tried to get up. WOW it worked :) I was also told if they go to sniff great and if any of the dogs looked like they were going to be aggressive don't freak all out and pull on the lead (they read your body language and you can actually make it worse), instead have a treat/toy/praise and happily call your dog and make coming to you happy. This way the situation doesn't get out of hand and all is happy. The meeting went well and you had it under control before things went bad. I was also told to be slack on the lead not holding it all tight because the dog can sense that as well.

Hope this helps some :) and good luck :)

ttfn :)

Good advice, dollface!
:)

And just imagine what that would have been like if she hadn't been on the lead. Just could have been 10 times worse than that.
I would find someone with a nice calm dog that will tolerate her puppyness and take the playful pounding she can give. With a calm dog she can slowly build her confidence back up without there being too much danger.
Good luck with her
Caz x

As you said yourself, your little girl does not seem to have suffered any ill effects and seems quite cheerful. I suspect the reason she got upset the first time was because you were screeeching! Its really imortant that you keep yourself calm, as you said yourself, they were not being aggressive, and there is no reason for you to panic. Dogs pick up on our own fears, so try not to show her yours. If this happens again, do not shout, just let her get on with it unless there is real danger. Even then, screaming and yelling will likely fire up the other dogs more! Hopefully the classes will make you more confident, and show you that she will be fine with other dogs. :)

dogs wanting to meet puppies is a natural thing and some are over enthusiastic. although it is hard to see your little puppy out of it's depth [in your eyes] - she needs to learn how to appease the dogs she is going to meet every day.
very rarely are dogs aggressive to puppies, who usually just act submissively, and show their tummies, as they are 'programmed' to do.

my puppy is very small and has met many very much larger dogs in the few weeks since she went out. she has learnt how to deal with it, and it was hard for me to see large dogs bounding towards her as she is only 3kgs! but she had to learn, they were just curious and bounded off when they had had a closer look - my puppy rolls on her tummy [tail wagging], and used to give a little whimper to say 'steady on i'm only a baby and you're soo big!'. now she doesn't whimper, but is just submissive.

a couple of dogs growled at her, out of jealousy when their owners petted her. if you don't panic, i'm sure they pick up that everythings ok and they get on with it between them.

as the weeks go on she seems to ignore dogs who ignore her, and the only way of socialising a dog is to socialise! not all dogs want to be bothered with puppies and not all people she meets will be nice, but she has to learn about the world in her own doggy way. we can't protect them 100% and they have their own doggy coping mechanisms. your puppy recovered from her 'encounter' well and may have enjoyed it though i bet it was a shock. the first one is always going to be a bit scary for both of you. good luck.

It is so hard to ignore them when they are screaming like that i know, but it really it is the best thing. As people have said here, by comforting her you have only reinforced the fact that she was right to be scared, when actually the dogs were just a bit boisterous. My dog used to be terrified of other dogs when she was younger, so i just started to introduce her to as many as possible. I didn't force her to go near them but i would touch them and show her it is ok. If she pulled back or made a fuss i completely ignored her, but if she stepped towards them or made an attempt to say hello without being scared i would praise her and make a fuss of her. Its difficult when the dogs are off lead and a bit over enthusiastic, especially when the dog is panicking, but it is important that you don't panic too. I don't think any damage has been done, she is still very young. Are you going to puppy classes or socialisation parties?

thanks everyone - i know what you're all saying and that's exactly what i've been doing in other situations - but this one, when the pup's screaming away and out of control dogs are bouncing all over her, what should i have done? the only other option i can see was just to stand there until the other dogs' owner came along and controlled them - and then wouldn't i have looked a weak pack leader in her eyes? At least she still looks to me for protection rather than bolting off now.

if we'd have just walked away they'd definitely have chased and kept worrying her and gone even furhter from their owner so it would have gone on even longer. i didn't want any of the 3 of them to get hurt, they'd chased her into a ditch by the side of the path that was full of brambles and then had her pushed up against a barbed wire fence - it wasn't just the screaming that was getting to me it was the fact that i really thought one of them was going to get hurt. it really isn't a safe place for boistrous play, not like an open field.

i'm just worried cos these dogs live 5 doors away from us and we use the same regular walk so i'm sure its going to happen again :(

PS - pup classes start in 2 weeks time, i am sure that will help with her general socialisation, its these particular dogs i guess i'm really worried about

hi katie,
i also have a cavalier king charles puppy, she is almost 13 weeks now and ready to go walks shortly, i do worry and expect similar problems to arise, i expect puppy classes will be the best thing for ruby as well as my little one..my older cavalier who is now 2 yrs old had a bad experience as a puppy and ended up with difficulties meeting other dogs..he still thinks he can take on any dog whatever its size lol!
but i must admit since he began training classes, he is much improved.
enjoy the classes, they are so worthwhile :o)