This message is for Laurie I'm new on this thing and I really don't remember which board I was in,in any case I have two males a Silver lab
and a blue Waimaraner both still puppies and wonderful dogs your question about the Silver Lab, the color is very similar to a standard Waimaraner (silver gray type) but more chocolatie the AKC in the U.S will not recognize the breed as silver but rather (chocolate) I did some research on the color and back in the early 40's they started breeding a black Lab and a chocolate hoping that they would get this type of color, well the article went on to say that hence following so many attempts they finally got it to an acceptable level which is now recognized as silver
however not yet accepted for showing by the AKC but word has it that soon they will, according to AKC news which I suscribe to.
There's approximately 25 to 30 breeders of Silver in the U.S. mine came from Indiana his name is Kobie extremely intelligent animal and very lovable 8 months old, he's just a joy to have many people mistake him for a waimaraner.... I hope I've answered your question.

Sincerely

Vic

A chocolate lab and a black lab produced a silver lab??

I had heard they were crosses with weimeraners??

I could be completely wrong but surely if the pup came from a pedigree chocolate and a pedigree balck it would have to be recognised as a pedigree lab itself regardless of its colour???

sorry have jsut reread the post properly and realised you meant they were just called chocolate rather than silver. I thought you meant they couldnt be registered at all.

Sorry

As far as I understand there is no such thing as a silver Lab, it is a chocolate with poor colour and poor pigment.

Hi Jackie if you would like more info on the so called silver, visit (www.dogbreedsinfo.com) you might get a better understanding to the controversial silver Lab and as far as the poor coloring and pigmentation really doesn't effect it's looks in fact I kind of like this type of liver color much better than the full chocolate, however everyone is in title of one's opinion, I did see a much more silvery color Lab mistaking it
to a waimaraner (not sure of the spelling) the other day so I placed mine next to the more silvery one and there was a big big difference
Kobie (my Lab) looked almost like chocolate compare to this one, so I guess it's like anything else there's various shades in all colors.
I hope I've been of some help.

Sincerely
Vic

Hi Vic

It will not be a subject that will please many of us Lab people here as we are battling at the moment with a trend of people breeding for colour rather than the good of the breed and good temperament.This is due to big demand in chocolates as it is fashionable. As a result there are more and more dogs coming up to rescue due to dubious temperaments etc.

Sorry if it offends at all but it is only the because of the and love of welfare of Labs that I have posted this.

Best Regards

Lucy

I've kept out of this so far because my feelings on fads and fashions are well known. I fear that by the time breeders finish with this "Designer Dog" business the breed will be ruined! Labradors come in three colours. If you want a labrador then why would you want one that is not in a colour that Labradors are supposed to be? If colour is so important to you why not pick a breed which is that colour?

Odd colour and deliberate crosses are just a money making scam!

John

Yes and Weimaraners are GREY not BLUE. If you want a blue dog get one that comes in blue. The breed standards for Weimaraners and Labradors are clear and unequivacol.

I could not agree with you more John!

John let's not misunderstand each other, first things first, my number one priority in a dog is the breed I could care less about the color
what's important to me is the history of the breed in my case is the magnificent (labrador retreiver) it's gentleness,intelligence,fun loving
the perfect Family dog, in my opinion if they could only talk they would put a lot of us humans to shame a tremendously faithful servant.
the color it's not important to me secondary at best....and Breeders that breed because is the fashion today it's a sacrilege. I have what they call a Silver or in your case liver because when I first saw his picture as a month old puppy I magically fell in love with this gentle creature at that point I wouldn't have cared if he was black yellow or chocolate one thing I knew for sure I had to get that particular puppy
and both my wife and I LOVE HIM to death...now do you get my point?

Sincerely
Vic Esposito

I'm a bit confused, Vic, with the terms for the colours. Over here, according to the breed books, "liver" is merely the original (and not so popular) name for chocolate. No connection to (or hint of) silver at all. When was silver accepted by the AKC?

Hi there, first off let me apologize to the people on this board if I give the wrong impression the AKC in the U.S. does not recognize the color
silver under their ruling, they are registered as chocolate perhaps a lighter shade of chocolate but definetly not silver however it is recognized
as a fully pedegree Labrador. Now the various breeders throughout the country have them listed as silver check out the website
www.dogbreedsinfo.com and you will get a better idea how the silver color came in to the picture. I read a posting earlier on this board
that the color chocolate is in fashion therfore more breeders are breeding chocolate than yellow or black this is something that I have a problem with, even I know the difference between clothing and animals....the problem throughout the world is that breeders will continue to experiment with this wonderful animal contrary to the laws of nature to satisfy some sick human beings that ultimately all they're going to
get is nothing but mutations.
regards
Vic

"when I first saw his picture as a month old puppy I magically fell in love with this gentle creature at that point I wouldn't have cared if he was black yellow or chocolate one thing I knew for sure I had to get that particular puppy and both my wife and I LOVE HIM to death...now do you get my point?"

I get your point Vic and I think that the fact that you so obviously love your dog very much is all that matters. Welcome to the forum by the way :-)

I couldnt agreee more with you john, silver labradors are not pedigree labradors, in order to get the silver colour weims were bred with labs, hence the 'silver' labbs looking cvery much like overweight weims, lets hope they dont catch on over here

I'm sorry to disagree with you but the silver is indeed a fully pedegree Lab if the AKC say so it's good enough for me.

regards

Vic

Hi Gundogsrbest please allow me to rewrite an article taken from the AKC archives: Consensus at the "Silver Lab"meeting held on July 14,1997 1) The foundation fot the AKC registry is based on parentage and not color.
2)We should register all Lab pups coming from purebred AKC registered Labs.
3)We should not register Labs as "Silver".
4)After a review of pictures,the file and historyof this issue which goes back to 1987, we feel the most appropiate color for registration is Chocolate.
5)We will entertain complaints of impure breeding on an individual basis,but complaints should be based on more than color.
In 1987 we "AKC" conducted an inquiry into the breeding of the litters that contained the dogs that were registered as silver and one of our representative was sent to observe several of the dogs that had been registered as silver. Color photographs of these dogs were forwarded
to the office of the American Kennel Club where the staff of the AKC and the representatives of the Labrador Retriever Club of America examined them. Both parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retievers, however both parties felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard describes chocolate as ranging in shades from Sedge to Chocolate,It was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate than silver.

Robert Young of AKC on 3/27/03 giving AKC official position
on the issue of "Silver Labs"

P.S. I hope that this might be of help in your doubts of the purebred Lab

Sincerely
Vic

Hi

This is to John and to everybody who is so negative about other people's dogs. I am truly saddened that so many of you out there are so elitist.

What happened to loving a dog for being a dog and not worrying so very very much about colours etc. I realize that pedigrees need to conform to a breed standard, but what is the point of knocking someone like parma who is obviously very very happy with his dog.

Some of you folks are more bitchy than supermodels.

Hi,
Can you quote where someone has "knocked" Parma?

I read the thread as being about people's justifiable anger at possibly unscrupulous breeders passing off a pup of a non-standard colour as a rarity and charging the unwary buyer an excessive price! And this incorrect colour being mis-registered! Nobody has attacked Parma personally!
:)

Hi Laurie, no offense taken by anyone here on this board but thank you so much for your support if my dogs were just mutts I would still love them to death and it really doesn't matter to me what other people think
I know they mean well and so weather or not they're in disagreement with my posting the fact of the matter is I'm the one that has them and I'm the one that loves them I will send you a photo of Kobie and Jake if you'd like, in any case thanks again and a very happy day to you.

Sincerely Vic

"Supermodel"! Never been called that before! "Obsolete Model", occasionally. "Doddering Old Fool" regulaly but "Supermodel"!! No but I could grow to like it!

Regards, John

Good morning John I hope all is well... I've been called so many names in my life that I could write a book about particularly when I was in the Navy so I had two choices to either take it as a joke or fight they can call me anything they want but please don't call me late for dinner!!!!lol John I'm going to send you a couple of pictures of my boys would you mind?

Sincerely
Vic

Thanks for the pictures Vic, I've emailed you. :)

Best wishes, John

Hi John hope all is well...how did you make out on Saturday any luck? in any case you have a beautiful yellow Lab I'm sure he made out ok.
have a happy day.

Vic

Hi Vic, We had a lovely day! Anna did some nice work in most unseasonably warm weather. :)

Best wishes, John

Hi John it was very warm here as well, but I'm glad Anna did her thing she's an amazing beautiful dog I showed the pictures to my wife and she echo's my exact sentiments. Have a great day and keep in touch I will send more pictures at a later time.

regards
Vic

Thanks Vic. I think shes sweet but I could just be a little bias!! This is her fourth season in the field, she has slowed a little but that means she now has time to use her nose and is all the better for it. I must say that to me there is nothing like seeing a dog doing the job it was bred for.

Best wishes, John

:D@John!

Laurie

I do think we all have one thing in common. The love and welfare of our faithful friends ! :)

Lucy

Hi LJS I couldn't agree with you more and no offense taken, but when I hear that breeders bred because it's fashionable it irks me to no end
they treat these beautiful creatures any dog for that matter as designer clothes don't these breeders realize that a dog has feelings just like humans I think the whole human race is reverting back to the Roman Empire under the ruling of Nero.

respectfully
Vic

Vic

Unfortunately by you buying and now owning a 'Silver' Lab has only made the problem worse. I know that you have all good intentions etc and must love your Lab but it is wrong that they are promoting this colour which is not recognised in th UK and hopefully will never be so.

Regards

Lucy

The Labrador is to me the most wonderful of dogs. To want a Labrador I cannot see how anyone would want one which did not conform to the breed standard. Some years ago the Kennel Club announced in their wisdom that they would not accept any "Non Standard" colours. They then, if my memory serves me correct decided to water down the rule and register the dog but with "Non Standard Colour" beside the name. Later still it would appear, (Although I never saw it in the gazette) they dropped even that because I have seen registrations for White??? Golden retrievers, Cream Golden retrievers and Honey Labradors on registrations!! How for goodness sake can you have a white Golden retriever? If it's white it cannot be golden!

Some years ago a vet had the temerity to list on one of my Labradors vaccination document, her colour as Honey! He never made that error again with one of my dogs!

Regards, John

I'm not even going to get into this one do we have a smilie for zip up mouth ? :)

unfortunatly i fear possibly the crossing of lab/weim has alrady taken place on two or threee occaiosnion that i know of by a certain(and i say with certain amount of discust)'breeder' in the north london area, now at the moment she is advertisings them as crosses but i dont think it would take too long for her to cotton on to the idea that a silver lab could be rare and therefor cost lots of money.she also has my contempt as i know she also sells any she cant sell herself at a well known'pet shop' which i think should be illegal in this day and age as they encourage impulse buying and they have no idea where the poopr pupps end up

And guests and members get surprised when most of us get cross when they say they want the 'latest' designer cross, or the new seasons colour. Now guests have some excuse they may just not know any better, but members will, one would think, have read the board and know why they should not be encouraging the sort of dog producer (breeder) you describe.

I had a look at a so called 'silver lab' on the web it looked nothing like my black lab ( the poor dogs face was nothing like a lab) If you were to mix black paint with brown I dont think that you would end up with a pot of silver paint!!!! so how can peolple say that you would get a 'silver lab' by mateing a black lab with a chocolate lab.
I love the lab breed so when I got my boy (13 weeks old) I realy did not care what colour he was. As he is my family pet and my two kids love him to bits.

I thought it was ilegal to buy and sell cats and dogs in pet shops???!!!

Charley

Not in the US.

Not in the UK either. :(

Hi Angela see for yourself and tell me if my Kobie looks anything like a Lab.

Cordially
Vic

John

"I have seen registrations for White??? Golden retrievers, Cream Golden retrievers and Honey Labradors on registrations!!"

But John - aren't Cream Golden Retrievers within the standard?

May just be my ignorance.

I stand corrected, the standard reads <<Colour Any shade of gold or cream, neither red nor mahogany. A few white hairs on chest only, permissible>>

What I was trying to get over that it is a Golden Retriever and the colour is really a shade of.

Regards, John

I am interested in the genetics.
Is it correct that the Weimaraner is Red (recessive) and Dilute (recessive) giving the (almost) unique colour. If this is so, presumably Weimaraners cannot be any colour other than - Blue? (genetically referred in some breeds a lilac).
If the "silver" colour in Labradors is the same colour as the "blue (or lilac)" in Weimaraners then there would surely be naturally occurring 'black+dilute=?' cropping up in Labrador litters from time to time, also pale "red?" 'chocolate+dilute' and 'yellow+dilute' (not sure what that would be!). I know nothing about either breed but if anyone has any answers I would be very interested to understand the inheritance.

I have just got a Black Lab 8 weeks now

The Fiance and I have always wanted a Lab and were told to have a look at the Chocolate because everyone was saying that they were the dog to have and shouting about how superb they are But I didn't like the look of them...very pink nose and funny pigment...they looked weak if you know what I mean???.....ended up getting a black as I prefere them to the Yellow :)

A guy in work said to me he had a designer dog (Weimeraner) and he was boasting as his cost £450 and mine was £200 I told him he was sad and to get a life!!!

You dont get a dog to say you have a so and so you buy one to love and to have fun with.....and Labs are very friendly outgoing and love water which is perfect for me as I have a river running behind my house...cant wait for her to have her second injections so I can start taking her out!! :)

Hello chaps - Can I just ask a quick question to Vic, what colour eyes does your Silver Lab have? I ask this as I have also done a bit of research on this and have found that quite a few of the American Breeders who specialise in Silver Labs state that even as adults their eyes can still remain blue/grey. I checked the breed standard and it clearly states that the only acceptable eye colours are brown or hazel. So where does the blue come from? I was also under the impression that most if not all of the original Silvers were bred from Chocolate to Chocolate matings where the colouring gets paler as it gets more diluted. Thats why most Chocolates are mated to Blacks, to retain the richness of colour.
Theres tons of stuff on Silver labs on the net - one kennel in the USA is offering a huge monetary prize if anyone can prove by DNA that their Silvers are not pedigree labs - but if its true that they're diluted forms of the chocolate, then no-one will ever win the prize as they are, in fact, pedigree Chocolates!!
Anyway, rant over (for now, LOL):)
Ali

The color of Kobie's eyes are blue/gray he's 9 months old and the vet said his eyes will stay this color for the rest of his life unlike many people's opinion that eventually they will change... at this point I really don't care one way or the other I love my lab and that's that.
the AkC in the US did some in depth investigation with this color and they came to the conclusion that the silver is indeed a pedegree
labrador retreiver and the color was developed between two Labs A CHOCOLATE and a BLACK, now my boy is not silver like the weimie
it's more on a light chocolate side and as I stated before the AKC will not recognize the color but the breed as a full pedegree Lab they do.
The AKC has him listed as another shade of brown but not Silver,therfore I could enter him in a show as chocolate I hope I've been of some help.
Someone stated that the silver is not a pedegree breed well I got news for them they're wrong if the AkC ACCEPTED him as a fully pedegree Lab that's good enough for me. All the signs of a Lab ARE PRESENT, looks like a Lab, SWIMS like a Lab,has wonderful dispositions like a Lab
but what's more important to me than anything else is that we love him to death.

Hi Vic-thanks for the clarification about Kobies eye colour:) I bet he also EATS like a lab (or would do if you let him)LOL

Ali

Hi Mentalcat you bet, he would eat like a Lab if I let him we're trying to maintain him at an acceptable weight between 70 and 80 lb, I belive he's close to 48 lb at the moment 9 months old...my wife and I both dedicate much time in training them properly when we sit down at dinner or breakfast etc. Kobie will not come around the dinner table and beg like many dogs do he'll just lay down on the living room floor and wait till we're done and then he knows it's time for is mile walk so he get's the leash and literally hands it to me and I better be ready or he'll give me that (not so friendly look) and starts barking it's the same ritual every night they're so intelligent it's almost scary, the other night I wasn't feeling to well so instead of getting ready to go I slowly layd down on the couch and he knew something was wrong so instead of getting the leash he layd down next to me unbelievabe creature just a joy to have him as part of our family and now that we're empty nesters we have two childrens again, Jake the greysh blue Weimi is 3 months old and he's just as wonderful as Kobie...I will say this however they're an awful lot of work when they're puppies but that's the type of work we don't mind we've already being rewarded just by having them around.
Sincerely
Vic

I dont mean to be argumentative in any way but out of curiousity if your lab is brown why do you call her a silver lab?????

I wondered this too, as it is dilute chocolate I would have thought the colour should be cafe au lait, or beige???

for me silver is palest grey/cream almost white, as in a Samoyed. In other breeds where ilver is mentioned it refers to sprinkling of white hairs, or all white body coat.??? Very confused.

Also never understood why the dilute brown such as is seen in Weims is called Grey when it is in fact lilac (dilute Brown), whereas Blue is dilute black. Grey to me is wild dog colour or Agouti.

No problem at all, my lab is a light chocolate color when I bought him he was labled as silver from a silver lab breeder, as I stated in an earlier posting at that point I really didn't care about the color I fell in love with the picture and I had to have that dog believe me I'm like most of you good people I believe in nature big time and not the alteration of it all I know is that I love my Kobie it's a boy incidentally and that's all I care about, sometimes depending on the light it seems like he has a shade of silver or gray but as I said earlier he's a light chocolate color but recognized by the AKC as chocolate I hope I've answered your question.

best regards
Vic

Hi Rachael Parker I'm new at this and I'm not knowledgeable of attachments to posts, in any case can you tell me how can I attach a picture of my Lab to a posting? your help will be much appreciated.

Cordially

Vic
p.s. you can send the info to (victor.esposito@goodrich.com)

If you have a website URL you can add it to your profile. If not, you will need to email the picture direct to other members.