I have a 6 month old golden retriever and I have no intention to breed from her so I want to get her spayed. She is booked in for this friday but a friend of our s has said we should wait until about 3 months after her first season (I dont know when this is supposed to be). I have looked on this site and found there are lots of differing opinions about when to get dogs spayed, and the pros and cons of it(Preventing mamarry tumours, causing incontenence) and also phantom pregnancies(What is one of these?) also some people say it stops them maturing ? Please can anyone help advise me as I really dont know what is best to do ?

IMO never spay a pup, if you really must spay then at least let the baby grow up.

Mammary tumours are easy to spot when they are small and although spaying will or may reduce the likely hood of them it is not 100% and if you ask your vet to show you how to check and you do it every time you groom then you will not have a problem. If you want to make sure your bitch or dog, does not have mammary tumour them remove the mammary strip not the womb. Phantom pregnancies are natural to the bitch and yes there is a high chance your bitch may suffer, medication is available. The worse thing that can happen to an intact bitch is that they may get pyometra, ask your vet to tell you the signs of this and you should be well set to enjoy your bitch as nature intended with all her hormone producing glands still there.

Thanks for the advice but I have heard that when they are in season it can be very messy and we dont want all the male dogs in the area gathering around the front door when she is in season, hence us definately wanting her to be spayed but were just not sure when. As we dont want to stunt her mentally.

Are all the male dogs in your area out of control? And did you not know that bitches had seasons when you bought her? With some bitches you will have to check every morning to find out they are in season, often the first is the worse and then the bitch manages herself, the only thing you need to do is keep her in from about day 5 to day 20 and the keep her on the lead for about another 7 days. Bathing after the season will also help.

I have kept dogs and bitches for over 50 years and I have never had dogs around my door when my bitches are in season nor have my dogs escaped to pester any one else with an in season bitch.

she won't be mentally stunted! Let her have one season at least first before spaying; the reason you wait 3 months after a season is to ensure that there is not an increased blood supply to the organs and that everything is "quiescent" in order to make the operation as safe as possible.

How about physically.

Physically they do not develop the stature and physique of a male (a bit like you can always tell a stallion, bull etc) and I tend to think that it can prevent a bitch looking "finished". Emotionally they can stay a puppy for life; having said that ALL Guide Dogs are castrated/speyed and live long and useful lives.

Of course there will always be people who have had bad experiences with everything, both my bitches and both my dogs have been neutered with no ill effects and are/have competed at the highest possible level. I prefer to spay my bitches because seasons interfere with competing; my first dog was castrated to improve his sexually motivated aggression (which it did) and my second was castrated prior to coming to me because he was a cryptorchid. I have never personally met or known of anyone who had a health problem caused by neutering but that is not to say it does not happen; certainly in the competitive arena of working trials, agility, and obedience many bitches are spayed otherwise their competitions are severely restricted.

You are right in one respect I am only stating my findings on 12 animals, but 1/3 of them were neutered and they all suffered to some extent. And I would never do it just for my own convenience. The animals health yes any other reason no.

Jackie,

You have had unusually bad luck with regard to neutering and spaying. Your experience, fortunately, is not representative. That said, if the same had happened to my animals, I would feel exactly as you do.

Stacey

Jacky how about a male the same applies I had Kobie my Lab neutered at 7 months do you see any positives and or negatives in neutering a male? please advise.

Sincerely

Sorry I can't see any good reason for castrating a male, I did it once and the poor dog suffered for 12 years till he died because I was persuaded to castrate him at 13 months. I will never forgive myself, I don't know why I did it there was no good reason except the fact that it was suggested to me that it was the way to go and I was too dumb to think it through.

EDIT: sorry a bit emotional but the dog in question only died at Easter and I am still beating myself up over the miserable life he lead.

Hi again Jacky Kobie was neutered as per our vet's advice I must admit however that he's doing wonderfuly well he's still the same Spunky Lab as before the procedure, the only difference that I can see since the procedure is that he's not as hyper as he was but the energy level
is the same a tremendously strong dog and very lovable I give him plenty of excersize on a daily basis runs like the wind and a great swimmer and not to mention the fact that he gets upset if I don't let him jump in the shower with me every night just a great great dog.

cordially

Vic

What was the nature of the suffering that lasted 12 years and resulted from castration?

To start it was a skin infection because his coat changed making him scratch and he smelt, his skin became so sensitive that we were unable to groom him, this lead to areas of deep pyoderma he then developed hormonal related skin disease. then at just over 2 years he started to develop early onset hormone related arthritis, this caused pain which needed medication. He then started to have feminisation syndrome that mimicked disorder of adrenal cortex but having sent blood samples to the USA, we do not have the necessary sensitive equipment in the UK to diagnose this, it was found he had a hormonal disorder he had to go onto male hormone replacement, this in turn caused his immune system to fail and he started to have recurring episodes of chest infection and other problems including demodectic mange. Which in turn had to be treated aggressively because that was the only way to deal with the infection, his own system having by now broken down, think you get the message, sorry for my typing if it is a bit way ward I am typing through the teat=rs of what I did to my dog because it was ‘the thing to do’

I think you may be blaming yourself for contributing pain to a dog whose life was certainly marred by ill health. The symptoms you describe could not be definatively attributed to neutering and seem to be of an immune deficiency genre rather than attributable to neutering.
We all blame ourselves for the suffering of our pets and look for reasons - sometimes the the only reason is bad luck. Once one gets it in ones mind that neutering in is the devil one tends to attribute all wrongs to the same devil.

I am sure you did everything for your boy but sometimes nature is against us.

SB

Sorry my vet saw and treated the animal, you did not. If they and the specilists in the USA say it was then you will exchuse me if I believe them.

I assume you chose a male over a bitch, because you prefer how a male looks male, and a bitch looks feminine. Having had your boy neutered before full maturity will mean that he will stay sort of half finished, like a Callow youth, and never look a real male. Also the dogs neutered before maturity of both sexes that I know have this Peter Pan sort of metality, and nver seem to be prperly Grown up. That is just my experience of my won and a number of other breeds.

Not all bitches are 'messy' when in season, most take care of themselves very well - if you're worried about furniture/clothes you can do what we did - put a sheet or towel over where the dog normally lies or across you lap. If your girls doesn't seem inclined to take care of herself (as my Springer didn't) then you can buy several pairs of little girls panties and cut a hole for the tail - make sure they don't rub and change them frequently (they are so cheap you probably won't even want to bother washing them).
I had my bitch speyed for health reasons after 10 years and never once had any problem from any neighbourhood dogs - the only preventative measure I took was not to walk her while she was in season......

Thank you all very much for the advice. In response to the question from Jackie H not all the dogs are out of control in our area but there is a male german shepherd who is just allowed to walk freely around the neighbourhood and we live next to somebody who has a male pitbull and I wouldnt want it trying to get over the fence when I take my dog in the garden. I am very ignorant when it comes to these matters, but I did know that buying a bitch she would have seasons but I was informed that I should just have her spayed if I didnt want to breed from her I wasnt told by the vet or the breeder that this could cause problems. How do I know when she is in season, is it a simple case of when she starts bleeding she is in season and when should her first season be ? I think as far as the pants idea is concerned as we leave our dog for a few hours when we go to work Im sure she would end up pulling them off.

Both my bitches were speyed at 6 months as our vet likes to spey before the first season, they have suffered no ill effects from it and aren't juevenille in their behaviour and haven't been difficult to train because of it either.
Gina

Thanks Gina. It seems as though we are advised by the vets to have them spayed early and its good to know that you havent had any ill effects from it. How old are your dogs now ?

One is a GSD X Rough Collie and she is 4 years old. The other is a working sheepdog (border collie without papers) who is 3 years old.
Gina

I had Toby (71/2 months old) castrated at 6months and so far he is fine, still growing fast still healthy and still boisterous, it certainly has not stunted his growth for a 71/2 month old dog he is huge, and doing very well with his training.

Heidi

I was informed that a dog should be allowed to mature and he shouldnt be done before 2 years ???
Lesley

Actually early castration means that the dog will actually keep growing ih the long bones somewhat longer, so on average will be taller thanit might have been. What it doesn't do is gain the same mass or bone density that it would if left entire. The head will also not have that characteristic male look. This may not mattter to you.

What country are you in Pickledoe?

Well may be I have been unlucky with my dogs, but I follow them through from birth to death and also have intact dogs to compare them with, may be I am over reacting but in 50+ years I have never seen a nurtured dog live what I would call a normal life and therefore would not do this to my dogs unless it was in their interest and not just for my convenience.

Current knowledge indicates that the advantages of spaying young far outweigh the risk of speying later or not spaying. Mammary tumours are a major killer of older bitches, finding them is not the issue surgery to remove them, again and again and again is!
Pyometra is also a big health risk, not just to older bitches but from 18 onths 2 years old. Incontinence is a minor risk and can in most cases be helped by hormone tablets.

My advice to puppy owners is - if you are not going to breed spey! It does not stunt growth, prolong puppyhood or injure the bitch - it does mean reducing food intake to prevent the bitch putting on weight. It does also mean the coat can become "fluffy", "wooly" and loose quality but those are manageable and cosmetic issues - tumours and pyometra are real health issues.

I can't comment so well on dogs as I have seldom castrated my own, many puppies I have bred have been castrated maybe between 50-100 over many years - no owners have reported any problems.

I had my Lurcher castrated at 6 months. He had been a sickly puppy but after castration matured into a lovely big dog.He lived until he was 12 and it was only in his last 6 months that he suffered any sort of ill health. Mentally he was a very balanced dog.
Personally I would wait until a bitch has had her first season but can base no real reason for that other than that is what I would do.

"My advice to puppy owners is - if you are not going to breed spey! It does not stunt growth, prolong puppyhood or injure the bitch - it does mean reducing food intake to prevent the bitch putting on weight. It does also mean the coat can become "fluffy", "wooly" and loose quality but those are manageable and cosmetic issues - tumours and pyometra are real health issues."

Changes in coat do not happen with all breeds of dogs, probably not even with all dogs of the same breeds. In GSDs, typically a bitch's coat gets *better* and she stays "in coat" longer following speying. In Cairns there is absolutely no change in coat post-spaying.

Food intact decreasing is also depends on the individual animal and breed. In fact, a lot of what is seen as bitches getting fat after speying has to do with the typical age of spey, which occurs about the same time caloric requirements decrease because all the big growth spurts are finished.

Personally, my advice would be that is someone cannot 100 percent guarantee to keep an intact bitch away from unwanted male attention during her season thanthe bitch should be speyed. If someone cannot keep their intact dog from roaming looking for bitches in season, then the dog should be neutered. Speying and neutering to prevent the possibility of cancer or pyometra I do not believe is a justifiable reason. Great that there are side benefits of spaying and neutering, but they should not factor into why someone would choose that route.

Stacey

Hi,

I hve a 5yr old golden which I show so not speyed,lives with another male Golden her
seasons are no problem at all certainly not messy I separate my male when she is in season never experience any difficulties at all.Do not intend to breed off this bitch and I see no reason even when I stop showing her to spey.
In my opinion if you know you can safely secure your bitch for that 3 weeks or so don't spey just my opinion if you think there is the slightest oppotunity a dog could get at your bitch then you may have to consider speying or putting her into kennels?

Briony :-)