Hi everyone, hope some of you experienced breeders can help me. I am going to mate my two dogs shortly and as the puppies are already sold to good homes I want to get it right. I did think I knew what I was doing until last night at training classes. I have always presumed my bitch was a late ovulator. She lives with an entire male( who I am going to use). He does not bother with her at all at the usual times i.e day 11,12,14 etc. After a cursory sniff each morning he ignores her. But round about day 16 to day 21 he goes absolutely mad, clawing through doors,screaming etc, you know the kind of thing. And if he meets her, he will mount readily and frantically. I always thought that because the change in him was so great that he knew by the smell of her, when she was ready. Last night I was told that the vast majority of bitches ovulate on day 11+ and he may be missing her completely. If this is so, what on earth am to do because he is not remotely interested on day 11 etc but I know he will start later on. Its always been this way with her seasons and he always reacts roundabout day 16. As to her reactions its very difficult to tell becaquse she will stand for practically all of her season and cock her tail to the side for all of it as well. I know I could get her swabbed at the vets but I am worried that he will tell me she is ready at day 11 when he is not!! sorry if this was long winded but basically can male dogs tell when the time is right?
cheers Alie

I think the dogs generally know - I have a bitch who will stand for around five days given the chance and this time was ready from around day 15. We mated her grandmother on day 23 as she was not ready till then and it was quite pricy finding out as I did not have a male at the time to tell me and had tests done at the vets every 48 hours as the dog was a fair distance away.

I would listen to your male - if you really want to be sure then have her blood tested. All bitches are different - even on different seasons.

Christine

Hmmmmmmmm, think your dog knows more about bitches than the humans at your training class!!!!!!! Else the canines would have died out. Rely on your dog and enjoy your puppies. JH

ive had bitches mated on the 12th day take and then another on the 21st day(only mating) and had a good litter.
Just varies but i always test with my stud dogs first and they usually know.
My old boy who is 10 now in his younger days would mate the bitches and if they came back for a repeat he would sometimes not touch them (all the bitches took who he did this too)
quite embarassing when they come back and have to travel a long way...
have fun
vicki

I agree that the stud knows. Every bitch can have a different cycle.Sometimes it helps to seperate the male from the bitch by a fence so they can run along side eachother and then put them together, because sometimes a male will not breed a bitch he always runs with.But it sounds like yours is eager to do the job, so go with him. Vet blood work etc. to me personally is a waste of time and money if you have a reliable stud. By the way, how old are they and is he proven?Good luck and let us now the outcome!

Dogs don't read text books! Ovulation times vary from bitch to bitch and season to season. My bitch whelped a litter of six pups from matings on days 14 and 16 - the stud knew she was not ready any earlier, and so did she.
Our own stud dog would go and have a sniff at a visiting bitch; if she was not ready he would go away again and lie down. When she was ready, his nose told him, and only then would courtship start...

He is 4 and not proven, which is why the concern set in. If he had successfully sired a litter before, I think I would have told the people at training to take a hike!! But because like all studs he has to have a first time, I got worried and thought maybe he is a complete twit that dosn't know what he is waiting for!! But as I said before the change in him is enormous and he goes from a nice calm dog at day 15 into a whirling dervish on day 16( or thereabouts) He gets so frantic by day 18 that I am ready for a long stay in a rest home for frazzled owners! He will mount 24/7 if I would let him so the will is more than there, I was just worried about his timing.
Alie.

Go with his instinct, at least that's what I would do this time. If you don't get her pregnant I would have a sperm count done on him. Usually though if they're that interested then they probably have what it takes. Then again sometimes they need extra help to get the job done, like will she stand still long enough for him so he can do his job, is he reaching her, sometimes with longer haired breeds it helps to clip the hair in the area for a better connection. Also K-Y jelly can be used on her so that he can get in easier, especially if it's a first-timer.If you really don't want to miss this season, than take them to the vet. They can check to see if she's ready and if it's before he will mount then you can artifically inseminate the bitch.Only takes a few minutes and is no biggy. But still, I would go with the male, help him if you have to, by holding the bitch, instead of going back and forth to the vets to find out that your stud was right after all, and your vet smiles as his wallet grows fatter and fatter and well you get the picture.

I know what you mean about the vets wallet getting fatter!! but I wouldn't mind paying if I could make sure she got pregnant, as I said all the puppies are sold to very good homes and I am keeping one myself. I already have the KY jelly on my shopping list! One thing I was interested in,artificial insemination, if I do get her swabbed early and she proves ready when he isn't, will the KC allow pregnancy by this means or will I have to go through all sorts of red tape to register the litter. My vet is a bit of a "jobsworth" and likes to do things by the book so theres no chance of the KC not finding out.
Alie

Hi Allie,
Unfortunatley, I don't live in UK and so I don't know about registry there. I deal with AKC and it's fairly simple to have the pups registered. When you have the procedure done have the vet fill out paperwork saying that he did the insemination on a specific date and to the specific dogs involved, then he has to sign and date it. AKC has special forms for it, but it is no more paperwork really than registering a natural bred litter. I don't know if your registry might require DNA from each dog. Does the KC have a web site? I can download forms from AKC on line. Check it out it could be very worth it, especially if you have homes already lined up for pups.Maybe another breeder on this board could fill us in, if they have ever done it and the paperwork needed. Is anybody out there????Help!?!?

Artificial insemination has to be approved by the KC before happening, and there are strict rules about how/when it is done. Extremely complicated and not to be undertaken unless there is an excellent reason (ie dog is in a different country and they can't possibly meet).

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Re AI - I seem to remember it requires quarantining and that the dog had a valid rabies jab at the time of collection as well?

Christine

To be honest, I did think there was problems with AI in this country but how easier things seem to be in the states. I think I will go with my male and let him get on with it. All that frantic passion can't be for nothing!!! Thanks to everyone Ali.

Yes - depending where the dog is from. basically the pet passport rules apply.

Joan
take the rough with the smooth.

Boy, they sure make it difficult over there. What next, they'll have to witness the dogs breeding in order to have a litter registered? Since it's such a pain in the a** to have such a simple procedure done, I would definetly let the male have a good go at it.

Hi, I would trust your dog, he may be a novice at being a stud dog, but he is showing such keeness I expect he will mate her. If he thinks the bitch is ready at 16-18 days he is almost certainly right. Just because most bitches are ready at 12 -14 days, doesn't mean to say he's wrong. I have had bitches - and I am sure others have too - that are not ready until 16 or 18 days, and would refuse to mate any earlier AND more importantly the dog wasn't interested at 14 days either. I would definately let him try to mate her normally, from the day she is receptive- whatever day that is - and every day till she's not interested any more. Even armed with all the scientific knowledge in the world - the dogs and bitches usually know better than we do, when they are ready!!

Hi there!!

What can I say? We read the books, the dogs don't yet they seem to get it right more times than us!! One of my first brood bitches was the result of a 21st day mating, yet she always caught on day 11/12 herself!
Like quite a few of the other folks who have also replied my stud dog seems to automatically know when the time is right and will act like the devil possessed to get near a bitch when the timing is right! Yet show him a bitch who has gone over and he will throw me a totally disgusted look and go lie down in the corner!!

As regards AI you have to apply for permission first and it is NOT permitted if both the Sire and the Dam are both resident in the UK, I think the only time you can get away with that is if the semen is frozen semen from a deceased dog who has been dead for 10 years if memory serves correctly. There is a downloadable copy of the application form on the KC website which explains it, www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/ I think they say 10 years to allow for sons of the deceased dog being available etc anyway have a look on the site if you want to know more!

At the end of the day I would trust your dog not the training club!!