Just wondered what peoples views were on the above, after 3 awful years with cancer in both my labs (different cancers) and now being on first name terms with the oncologist Having visited so many times, we sadly lost one of our dogs in march. I am still visiting the oncologist with the other lab, so asked her as we have had cancer problems with both labs are they more susceptable (spelling?) to cancer problems, sadly answer was yes, she sees a high number of labs. I asked what we could do to try to ensure we were not so unlucky next time, what to look for etc.. She said if you want a healthy trouble free dog, that barring accidents will probably never have to visit a vet and live to a good old age get a cross breed they have far fewer problems than pedigree no matter what the breed... Thought about what she said alot and yes still got another lab puppy as no matter problems they are my preference and if anything happens we have insurance and the very best that can be done for her will be, but have nothing against a cross, I have just done all the normal things to ensure my choice gives me as much protection as possible.. Has anyone found that their cross had or has less heath problems than the pedigree. I have also always been as careful as possible when choosing a puppy, do as many checks as possible to try to ensure the puppy has the best chance, so my problems did not stem from breeder in breeding.

Maybe I've been lucky with my two breeds. Pomeranian's, most of my dogs have lived into their mid teens. One lived until she was 16 and we have 3 others who are over 12. Spanish Water Dogs, still only young. Dilita is nearly 12, her daughter is 10 tomorrow. No problems as yet. My friends Spanish is neary 15 and he's going strong. So yes I've been lucky, but there are some breeds who die young unfortunately.

Hiya
My collie (Working sheepdog not kc reg, off a welsh farm and we rescued her) hasn't had touch wood any problems, she's 3 years old. My x-breed however, is just 4 years old and she has had major problems.
a) Spondylosis all the way down her spine
b) Degenerative Disc Disease which caused neurological problems in her back legs. Had an operation which cost the insurance comnpany £3,000. Cannot do much these days, just walking and trottin, tires easily.
So in my case the pure bred is better even though people think she is a double merle. We always thought x-breeds had less problems. Still I would get another crossbreed as I love them. Are you looking for another dog? As I know of some black and some merle collie X labrador pups.
Gina

Hi Gina
no I am not looking for a puppy at the moment thankyou, I couldn't resist and decided to take another chance and now have a 14 week old lab puppy. Fingers crossed she will live a long and healthy life ;o) but whatever she will have the best I can give her.

Technically the Heinz 57 dog is a mongrel & the mixing of two or more breeds a crossbreed

The problem with mongrels & cross breeds is that no one tests them for HD, PRA, CEA Elbows etc etc & you cannot really predict what a puppy will turn out it. Also if the mating was an"accident"or Street mating by the local "top"dog there could be temperament problems as
the "Top"dog will only be that because he has fought off the other males.

My old girl I lost this year was a mongrel & died simply of old age everything just packed up & it was time to let her go. The same can be said of all of my dogs except one a cavalier died from post vaccine reaction & a five year old mongrel from cancer

I've never owned a cross breed so cannot comment on crossbreeds other than I was bitten years ago by a Golden Retriever x Labrador Retriever bred the the Guide Dogs for the Blind & whilst it was working as a guide dog-so I'm not a great lover of that cross

My Pedigree dogs have always been healthy & I have quite a few live well into their teens with no major health problems(including my BC with HD !) 1/2 & fit as a lop). It might have been true years ago about survial of the fittest in dogs but that was long before the health checks & tests now standard with good breeders were available.

basically you pay your money & make your choice

We had a crossbreed which we lost March :-(she had a tumour, she was 18yrs old, (Rosie),
she was a rescue dog we had her for 16yrs, my two youngest children 14/10yrs had not known life without her,
apart from flea/wormers and a phantom pregnancy she was never at the vets until the tumour,
we all found it so hard to live without her that we bought Toby a ped lab as some of you know he is 7months now and we love him so much, although he doesnt take the hurt away from loosing Rosie it does help,
I hope we have Toby in our lifes as long as we did Rosie.:-)

heidi

Thing is with Labs beong the breed with largest number of puppies bred, it would be logical for the oncologist to see a lot of las.

I was at the vets recently where I spoke to a couple with a real bitsa, as their previous pedigree dog had died young they got a mongrel as it would be healthier. This poor dog was not yet middle aged and had bone cancer, and was possibly having to loose it's leg.

Also I sometimes do wonder whether a lot of easy come easy go cross breeds have the same care and money lavished on them than an expensive pedigree????

A crossbreed I would imagine would be susceptible to whatever breed specific ailments the breeds in his make up were prone to. If it is not inbred (many mongrels from certain areas can be) then it has less likelihood of inheriting recesive conditons.

Man usually avoids close breeding, but there are still plenty of genetic conditions that we suffer from.

I own two crossbreeds, and they have as much money and love lavished on them as any other dog in this house would, thankyou! ;)
Just because some people choose a crossbreed over a pedigree, does not mean they are easy come easy go dogs. I personally chose mine because they needed a home. In fact they chose me ;)

My opinion is that crossbreeds are healthier than pure breeds is partly myth and partly truth.

1) If two different breeds prone to cancer, or hip problems, or whatever are crossed -- then you end up with a mixed breed prone to those same problems. The more "mixed" the mix, the less likely there are to be genetic problems, since crosses will include breeds not prone to the same types of problems. (In other words, very much like breeding two clear, health checked pure breds together .. who each have a family history of good health.)

2) Mixed breeds do not show up at the vet as often as pure breeds. Hence, vets experience with cross breeds is more limited than with pure breeds.

3) Many (most?) pure breeds are purchased from pet shops and home breeders out to make some "fast money." They have not been health checked and no concern is given to breeding animals free from known problems. I am sure that these animals have more problems than cross breeds or pure breeds from reputable breeders.

I have only had one pure breed who came down with cancer .. and that was when she was nearly 13 years old. I have only had one mixed breed, most probably crossed somewhere with a lab. She had terrible skin problems.

It only makes sense that a vet would see a lot of labs with cancer. Cancer is very common in all types of dogs. And labs are a very popular breed.

Stacey

"Many (most?) pure breeds are purchased from pet shops and home breeders out to make some "fast money."

You really think this is the case? I can't believe most people would buy like this, I would have thought it be the minority?

Gina

I would have thought relatively few pet shops stocked puppies these days - although quite a few buy puppies in to order. A lot of Local Councils discourage pet shops trading in puppies.

SB

i do think that cross breeds are less likely to get cancer i had a lab cross and a coll cross and they never had any ,medical problems , staff got cancer so did 2 cockers . and the boxer had kidney problem which they think might have been cancer. sooo i dont know , i think your vet might be right .

Our old mongrel died at 10 of cancer. My pedigrees, barring accidents, have lived well into their teens. It depends greatly on which genes it has inherited, whether or not there is a predisposition to any illness.
:)

Also if they are KC registered they have to be sold by the breeder & not a third party. No health checks ? I think it would be the non pedigree dogs that are not health tested

My dogs come from "hobby"breeders clear heart & eye certificates for the last three generations on the KC papers & on the pedigrees all the breeders dogs My mongrels parents would never have been tested

That's a good point about KC and 3rd parties Moonmaiden, I had forgotten that. There are though a frighteningly high preportion of KC reg. litters bred from parents who have had no health tests, at least that is what I see with the pups who come to my classes.

But any tests are shown on the registrations so at least you know & a wise buyer would never buy from untested parents-sadly there are not that many wise buyers. It's about time the KC insisted on relevant tests before registration & no tests no registration

Nothing I would argue with there Moonmaiden!
It is also probably the case that many crossbreeds and mongrels get a very poor start in life through ignorance or neglect and that can take its toll later on.
My little Mongrel cost me £5,000+ last year in Vet fees (shame she wasn't insured) my many purebred dogs over many years have never had any real health problems even those that were rescues.

A good friend who had had a enough after two GSDs with HD, a weimaraner with temperament problems and two very sickly Beardies got a cross Spaniel/Pointer from rescue and that has been absolutely plagued with skin problems.

I think its swings and roundabouts, less herediary disease maybe but just as susceptable to other problems.

SB

I've just done an online quote for 12wk old lab in my area quote was 115.64 pa .Crossbreed same age and policy was 88.90 pa .This was just for a very basic cover with Petplan.Insurance companies may be many things but there not in buisness to make a loss.So from there point of view crossbreeds are healthier .

Oh that is interesting I didn't know that the same policy coverage would be cheaper for a crossbreed than a pedigree

Could also be that not as many mongrel dog owners want to Insure, so the company's are making it moire attractive by offering them reduced rates?

I'd assume that a fairly even percentage of crossbreed owners to pedigree owners insure their dogs.
You'll find that pedigree dogs are now a becoming status symbol in your typical "bad" owner - whereas crossbreeds seem to be going out of favour. In my area at least.
I think saying all crossbreed owners dont love, care for or insure their pets is slightly rude to those with crossbreeds, don't you think?

Agreed Lisa
2 out of my 3 dogs are mongrels! 1 is insured on a prime plan, same as my GSD - the best cover I can get (and certainly not cheap!) The only reason the real oldie isn't insured is because he was 14 yrs old when I got him!
Katrina
PS - I personally believe that mongrels do have fewer health problems generally - the wider the gene pool/hybrid vigour etc

Could you please explain then......why when you go to the vets are there more x breeds there than pedigree.?. Are they really that much more healthier . I dont think so.

Yup, I really do think it is the case. Most people do not know how to purchase a puppy. They decide on a puppy, a price they can afford, and take the first one available.

Stacey

How do vets know that crossbred dogs are healthier than pedigree dogs?

Cross breeds do not have breed specific health checks, so how would vets be aware of HD, ED, PRA, HC, heart defects etc, etc unless the dog was obviously exhibiting symptoms?

Of course oncologists see more Labradors than other breeds, they are the most popular breed, so it stands to reason that a specialist will see a greater percentage of these dogs than other breeds. It can be compared to a garage mechanic saying that Fords are more prone to mechanical problems than Ferrari's because he sees many more of them!

Cross breeds are usually low-cost or free and are quite often owned by people who do not regularly visit vets due to the high cost and therefore problems are not diagnosed as regularly as in pedigree dogs.

The only experience of cross breed dogs was two that were owned by my parents and both of them suffered physical and/or psychological health problems. My Golden Retrievers have always been healthy and since we changed diets and vaccination regimes, they rarely require veterinary attention.

My personal opinion is that many cancers are caused by commercial diets and by promoting these diets to their clients, vets end up treating problems that they are partially responsible for creating!
At the very least, most periodontal disease, anal gland disease, parasitic and skin disease are directly linked with commercial foods.

Try changing to a natural diet and see if this improves the health of your dog, what have you got to lose?

snomaes

Vets handle many dogs everyday so im sure there the best people to ask. they would probably have alot to say on certain breeds
i know that i disagree on some breeds i think some should really look into health ! ive met quite afew breeds now alot of them show. i think for heavens sake the poor thing cant breath . why breed like that ,
have you seen those goldfish with the big heads with huge cheeks ,i compare them to other normal goldfish and i think ohh dear what went wrong they look deformed. i see some dogs like that.

Whatever dog I have or had crossbreed or pedigree has always been checked by the vet on purchase and at first sign of illness, My opinion is if you own a pet you should look after it to the best of your ability. My current vet bill runs at over £8000 for the bone cancer only £5000 of which was covered by insurance, I learnt my lesson there and from now on only have unlimited insurance, but if my dog had been a cross breed I would still have paid out the same, but know not everyone would. I do not use commercial dog food, mine get a dark green vegetable, other veg, fresh steamed chicken or fish, occasionally pork and pasta or rice. In the morning they get wheatabix and milk or occasional egg. I do agree with the possibility of a link between some commercial dog foods and cancer etc although as yet not proven , which is why I do not use them .

Guess from reading all the posts it does come down to luck of the draw. Lets hope this time I am a bit luckier. For all the problems I have had with my labs and cancer I would not have changed them for the world.

Vets handle many dogs everyday so im sure there the best people to ask. they would probably have alot to say on certain breeds
i know that i disagree on some breeds i think some should really look into health ! ive met quite afew breeds now alot of them show. i think for heavens sake the poor thing cant breath . why breed like that ,
have you seen those goldfish with the big heads with huge cheeks ,i compare them to other normal goldfish and i think ohh dear what went wrong they look deformed.

"Cross breeds are usually low-cost or free and are quite often owned by people who do not regularly visit vets due to the high cost and therefore problems are not diagnosed as regularly as in pedigree dogs."

This is a bad and incorrect generalisation. Yes, I agree with you that some cross breeds are kept by idiots who do not know the first thing about keeping healthy and happy dogs, but some pure bred dogs are also kept by this type of person. (Think back to recently when all those poor pedigree dogs where rescused from the one house!)

My cross breed is nearly one and he certainly was not free or cheap when we bought him. He visits the vets as and when needed (thankfully so far this has only been for routine visits). My cross breed is a large dog so the cost of keeping him each month (with insurance included) is a high cost, but I knew that this would be the case when I bought him.
So to generalise that most cross breed owners do not look after their dogs due to "the high cost" involved is absolute rubbish.

lins

Hiya
I agree my x-breed was the same price as my WSD. And I know lots of people in agility with crossbreeds and they visit vets regularly. I think Dizzy is the only crossbreed in my village the rest are all purebred. So maybe there are just less of them about.
Gina

My Toffee cost nothing in £££ as I found her in a field but she`s had exactly the same treatment/feeding & visits to the vets as my labs, hey she even thinks she`s a chocolate lab :) & regurgiated her food for my first litter of pups when they were being weaned

Christine, Spain.

Hi Ebony, sorry to hear about the sad time you`ve had with your labs, I also have labs & a mongrel, Toffee, she`s 9yrs now & I found her in a field with a couple of litter mates when she was about 4wks old. She had a terrible worm infestation & fleas but we got that sorted & she was OK for a while, then when her adult teeth came thru they were vere stained & she would have to go the vet for regular cleaning 1/2 a year. Then at about 1yr old she started getting constipated & we were always changing her food or adding bran(vets advice) to it. Then the anal abcesses started, which were very painful & she hated me having to clean them & all the messing around. She was also very prone to cuts & scratches, she`s a terrible digger!!!:) So all I can say is that she`s had a different set of probs to my labs healthwise but not healthier, although none of them have had serious health probs like your`s has. Toffee hasn`t had any bum probs & I can`t remember the last time she had a cut, since I started her on raw & her teeth are so much cleaner than when the vet used to do them :)

Christine, Spain.

Talking about teeth my Pom's have terrible teeth to clean, my Spanish on the other hand hardly ever get tartar. I have never had to take any of them to the vets to be cleaned and my nearly 12 yr. old and my 10 yr. old today Spanish still have all their white sparkling teeth.

My vet told me the same thing get a cross or a heinz 57, my lab/x lived till he was nearly 15, lost him last yr, he didnt really have much wrong with him until about 13+, probably luck of the draw, who knows?...

Our family dog, a lab/whippet cross, had cancer on the nose and was put to sleep because of it. Her previous owner had hit her on the nose to teach her to sit and stay, so i do feel the cells were damaged at some point, but she was presumably still susceptible to the cancer.

Lindsay

Hi chaps-So sorry to hear about your Labs. My husbands family have always had Black working Labs from working gundog kennels and they have always been relatively healthy- the kennels kept in touch with as many of the owners as possible and so compiled a sort of 'database' of good health bloodlines. There are always going to be dogs that break the rules (and your hearts), when you've done all the research and still have a problem. My husbands old dog (going back a few years here!) was diagnosed with kidney cancer at age 10, the vet found he only had one kidney so couldn't take it out, but with medication Ludwig lived to the ripe old age of 15 1/2 and was still walking 3 miles a day with a twinkle in his eyes the day before he passed away. Our other dogs have been 15,16 and 14 1/2 years old before they left us.
I think that one of the only things with crossbreeds is that unless you know the parentage, its impossible to look out for illnesses or problems that may be more prevalent in a specific breed, as well as the hips/eye problems.
Ali :)