hi everyone - as lots of you know i have a 14 week old cavalier pup called ruby who i adore! but i don't know too much about dogs, ruby's my first and so despite constant reading of gwen bailey's perfect puppy i get a bit nervous about how to do things.

does anyone have any advice about when and how to introduce ruby to being off lead on walks? there's a field not too far from us that would be perfect to try it in, i'm just not sure when or how to. i guess though it'd be sensible to get her used to going off lead and recalling well before adolescence, as i can see she likes staying reasonably close to me when we're out now and that'll waver when she's a teen i imagine.

i'm thinking super-tasty treats (bacon bits!), only letting her stray a little before recalling her, using a friend to hold her then let her come to me and of course doing it in a reasonably safe place. i worry cos she has a far from faultless recall now at her age - if she's really interested in something, she'll willfully decide she'd rather be doing that than coming to me!

any thoughts?

thanks :)

I wouldn't have her off the lead for a good while yet, unless you are in a securely fenced field. It is a legal requirement that dog owners have their dogs under control at all times. A 14 week old puppy is so excitable and bouncy that if thet see something interesting they are off with little or no interest in your commands.

I have a 14 week old Akita pup. She gets off the lead in a fenced field with one gate that is locked and bolted once we are in there. Never once would i have one of my dogs off the lead in the street, regardless of the breed.

Unless you have a secure area to excercise her off the lead i would consider just using a flexi lead. They are safe and reliable, unlike an excited puppy.

Good luck with her training!

No one is suggesting having a puppy off lead in the stret, and using a flexi in the street is totally dangerous, as the dog can veer into the road very quickly. they should only be used in the open where they cannot entangle someone.

A puppy should be allowed off lead as soon as possible in a safe place, as at this age it will want to stay close to Mum, and this helps a lot with recall training. Waiting until they are more confident is more likely that they will clear off to pastures new, and avoid being put on the lead again until they have had their fun.

At least that is what works for my independant breed. :D

People will start to think that you and I are the same person, Brainless! :D

Elkhounds and Dalmations must be more alike than at first would appear :D

Hi,
If she were mine I would find a nice secure place and let her off as soon as possible, before the 'big outside' has become too exciting! While going out is still a novelty (and a bit scary!) she is more likely to want to stick close to you and will follow when you move on (walk briskly!). If, however, you wait until she is confident outside, all the distractions you come across will be far more interesting than you, and she is less likely to want to leave them to come with you.

Just my opinion.
:)

Fields are just as dangerous. Any old farmers field will have holes in the fence and all sorts. Cavailiers are little buggers off the lead at the best of times, i know many people who own them.

Personally i think it is foolish to let a dog off the lead before it is very well trained on the lead. At 14 weeks the pup has hardly had enough training for such trust to be given to it.

Fields are as dangerous as the roads? Gosh! There must be cattle and sheep being run over all the time in your neck of the woods!! :D :D

LOL only if they are cavalier sized though :D

lol. you're so funny!!!
Farmers rarely keep their fields dog proof. king Charles sized dogs can easily squeeze througe a barb wire fence, for a pup its even easier. If there is livestock nearby there is a huge risk of an inquisitive puppy being seriously hurt. What if there is broken farm machinary or a broken down fence leaving the barb wire sitting there for a puppy to hurt its self on?
You seem to forget that there are risks everywhere waiting for pups to come accross them!

Very true, Miasmum. Perhaps it's safer not to take them out at all.
;)

you have a point there mia's mum i let my pup off in what i thought was a safe enclosed field she found a gap and she was gone took a while to get her back!

I sound as though i'm too protective over my dogs i know. But too many disappearing pups has led me to be very cautious when it comes to having the dog running about off the lead.
I would hate to see a post on here saying that someone had let their dog off the lead and hey presto she's under the wheel of a car. Pups are very vulnerable and need careful handling when they are tiny.
Just earlier on i was walking my dogs, on the lead, in the designated doggie field on our estate. A lab pup managed to get out of his garden and came bounding up to my lot to play. Had he gone under the other fence he would have been out onto the A96, main Inverness to Aberdeen road and under a lorry or something. It shows that they are not safe in their own back yard half the time, let alone deliberately let off to run around.

Hi Miasmum,
I do honestly sympathise with you, because we all worry about our dogs' safety, just as we do about that of our children. I feel it comes down to a balance between trying to 'guarantee' their safety (although that is nigh-on impossible) and letting them have as natural and free a life as we can in today's society. My personal experience has been that the sooner they are given trust, the sooner they become trustworthy.

There are no hard-and-fast rules when it comes down to risk assessment!
:)

With my breed (akita) there is one simple rule when it comes to letting off the lead: Never without a six foot fence, no holes and a good strong bolt!
With other breeds its very different and although most are fine there are the odd few who do run away. My point earlier was that a pup cannot be trusted. It takes many months to establish a very good trusting relationship with a pup. Only then would i ever consider letting the dog off, any breed.
Like i mentioned at the bottom of the page, if my dogs are going to run about i use a 30ft lead designed for horses. that way i am in control at all times and the dog gets to have a tast of freedom.

I'm sure you're right about Akitas - I've heard that said about them, and the ones in this village are never let off either. It must be a breed thing.

With almost all the other dogs we meet on our walks, ranging from JRTs to a couple of Danes, they all go off the lead in the fields as soon as they're taken out for walks, and none of them roam very far afield.
:)

Since i was a child ive always had dogs, a BT, A Westie a Manchester Terrier cross and now the Akitas (i'm sticking to this breed now lol). Not to mention extended family's dogs. Not a single one could be trusted off the lead, regardless of obedience classes and the like.
Its mainly down to personal experience, mine have always been bad ones.

The problem with the Akita is if they don't see the point in it, they won't do it. Thats why you can't play fetch the way its supposed to be! lol
Personally i wouldn't trust a pup, too many distractions. But its each to their own and i hope Ruby has some lovely times bouncing through the fields!

I don't mean this to sound as though I'm havinga dig,or being picky or anything, so please don't read it like that! I'm genuinely curious - how soon were your other dogs let off the lead?
:)

Bearing in mind some of these were years ago when i lived in Yorkshire. They were always started ten days after they had been given their full primary innoculation course. We don't believe in taking a pup anywhere public until the innoculation has had a chance to kick in.
The Border took off on several occasions, regardless of the training methods used she would not stay close. The Westie was just as bad, if it moved he took off to play with it. And the Manchester terrier cross is bloody loopy! She's like a grayhound, takes off like lightening after mice and won't come back. You have to wait till she catches one and starts to eat it before you can grab her. The best trainers we know of down in that area haven't been able to sort any of them.
This is why i see that its much less hassle to keep them on a lead. The lunge lines i use are excellent for giving them a little freedom and none of them end up on the M18!

My pup went off the lead as soon as she was aloud outside but only in the field, she either stayed by my side or stayed with my Older GSD she is nearly 6 months now and we got to the field she runs unto the middle has a poo then comes back for praise and a treat, when then go and clear up and she sticks to my bum like glue unless she decides she wants to play, but even then she comes back once called.
I think regardless of what breed the dog is let them off the lead and take treats and squeaky toy and the will be fine. I also use a flexi lead if we walk along foot paths are cycle tracks and when there is a time when i need to cross the road or am by a road, or a bike the leads goes short and is liked, as long as you are sensible with the lead by traffic and such like then they are fine.
You just need to remeber that when the dog comes back when you call it praise them and a treat.

Good luck

Cordelia

lol to jeangenie
:-D

This is all very well untill they get their own minds lol,
That is when they decide to run off
sam
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That's typical adolescent behaviour - of all species! If they were reliable before that stage, and you handle them carefully, they will be reliable again when they are mature. If they're not reliable beforehand ..... boy, do you have problems!!!
:)

Hi cordelia

your pup will stay with you while it is Small lol
Train your pup to sit not stay!

You also need to remember that a pup has its own mind lol
A gsd of 6 months is not of any age
sam
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If like me you are lucky to live in the country there are lots of safe areas to walk a puppy or dog. A puppy that age will not wander too far expecially if you keep his attention.

I would rather do that than keep a puppy on a lead walking next to a busy main road full of car fumes !! :)

I have done this with all my Labs and they are all here to tell the tale ! :)

I agree with Brainless and Jeangenie a young puppy looks to its owner for protection and will not go too far away and always be in sight. An older more confident dog will be more likely to get too far away at first. My terriers were let off their leads at about 14 weeks old in a safe field and I never had a problem. They didn't go more than a few yards away at first. Try to avoid narrow winding paths where a dog, child etc. can appear suddenly and startle the pup. Its very nervewracking at first, but the longer you leave it the harder it will be.

But they are terriers & not cavaliers that are specially bred to escape LOL Believe me I know from experience luckily the dog concerned simply when back to the car & tried to get in the crate at the back, found him fast asleep on the back bumper snoring his houdini head off lol :)

Terriers certainly do escape - not much will stop a terrier on the hunt :D

Cavaliers hunt the boys girls & vica versa lolololol :D

I tend to use a flexi lead or long line to start with so that the dog gets used to the idea that they have to come back when i call, once they seem to be doing that ok i attempt to let them off lead. My reasoning is: If you let them off completely when their recall isn't particularly good they can then learn that they do not have to respond when you call as you have no way of reinforcing it. Although they may be safe you do not want them to learn to ignore you. Every dog is different though, my collie never left my side when she was young as she was quite nervous and very attached to me (That did change with adolecence though!) but my retriever coyldn't care a less whether i am there or not! It also depends on how well socialised they are, for example a friend with a 5 1/2 month old retriever has been letting her off lead for a while now but last week they were walking in the forest when they met two horse riders, Izzy was terrified and bolted and was missing for 10 minutes. Pretty terrifying for the owner! Basically i think it depends on your judgement, you know your pup and you can assess how safe the area is, look at the fences, how close to the road it is, whether there are any loose animals, a stream e.t.c. I'm sure you will know when to take the plunge. THe first couple of times can be heart stopping though!! ;-)

Moonmaiden - you're a cavalier owner aren't you? can i ask what you do yourself?

ruby can be a little devil on home ground, where she feels safe and secure and like she needs no protection from me but outside our home she definitely sticks by me and is i think pretty darn reliable at coming when on her extender - even if its the opposite way from where she wants to go.

like i said below - my instinct is to let her off sooner rather than later so she can get used to it, she is quite a considered wee thing, would never at the mo (& am aware i have to keep reassessing this trait as she gets older and more confident) run up to anyhting she wasn't familiar with. but i have a feeling once she is older she will want to scamper away everywhere. my gut-feeling is i can teach her to recall much better now while she's puppy-clingy.

and also am tempted to do it gradually, with back-up of a long-line at first (so i can stop her if i need to but so that she doesn't feel like she's on a lead)

any thoughts?

I would definitely say sooner rather than later my two youngest boys(I've only had males)have a reliable recall as long as there aren't any attractive girls around :D, but they never run off & don't come back at all they like to say hello then come back when called after saying hello. I'm not very strict with them as they are showdogs as well & need to be happy when with other dogs.

They both have had basic obedience like recall stays etc as well as show training. unfortunately where I live is not safe for free running close or road walking by due to the open nature of the fields & country roads(no footaths oin the verges), but a few miles away there is a safe area & boys like to run there & meet their various lady friends :D

Once she has comfidence outdoors do be careful with dogs she meets although most will accept the Cavalier greeting because it is puppish even when adult somedogs will not be happy when approached by any dogs.

Oops edited to add one way of getting them back quicky is to make the trained recall a happy one with loads of praise & sometimes putting the lead back on & given a titbit then being let free again straightaway that way she will be happy to come back & won't see the lead as the end of play or a punishment

I have a 7 month Patterdale Terrier, I have had her off of her lead since she was vaccinated. I live on the edge of a town and can take either up the hill or down the beach. Although I have rarely heard of patterdales being able to walk beside off of the lead along the street. If anyone has heard of different please let me know and give me your hints.

I would say a big no to walking your dog or any other dog off lead on the street. Have seen many sad results of this in the past & in the nearest city it is actually an offence to have your dog off lead on the streets & roads where buses have there routes

Thats very true. I just wanted to know what to strive to achieve with Fiz, whether to go for trained on or off the lead. I must admit I would rather keep her on the lead but she's got a bit of training before she is perfect. Thank you!

Hi,

With puppies, the best time to start them off the lead, is the FIRST time you ever take them for a walk!!!! This is because a baby puppy will want to stick with you and won't wander far away, this way you can keep doing little recalls, reward with a treat and send them off again.

We ALWAYS let our puppies go from the first time they ever go out and we have never had any problems with that.

Many people will be too scared to let their puppies go straight away and they are making a rod for their own backs, because as the puppy gets braver and more confident of their surroundings, when you do decide to be brave and let them go, they are so pleased to be free and feel quite at home, that many will run off (only playing) and you will have problems getting them back.

manda
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I agree totally with all the posters that said let the pup off the lead. My spaniel was off lead as soon as I got him, same with my newfoundland. They wont go far, they will toddle behind you, just dont chase them! Incidentially all the puppies from my spaniels litter except one were used to being off lead early on. All are totally reliable to recall. The exception wasnt let off until she was about 9 mths old and she ran off so her owner didnt let her off again and ended up rehoming her. Her new owners also keep her on a lead as she ran off so often. They tried very hard to re-train her but gave up in the end unfortunately.

I would just like to tell you my expernce on this one, We let our pup of her lead at a young age about 15 weeks (always in a fenced field) it was nerve wrecking but she was fine always came right back when called and we always gave her a treat etc. She was fine untill she was about 10 or 11 months old then she still came when called but ran off again before we could get her lead back on, she still does the same now she thinks its a great game she is 13 months now and we dont let her off the lead unless we've got lots of time because it takes forever to get her back on the lead so she doesn't get to run free very often anymore, we are going to have to take her back to training.
K

Kayl,
When you call your dog to you make her sit and stay and then bend down to attatch the lead. If she follows basic commands this should be successful.

When i first had taz he was 9 weeks old. Obviously he did not venture outside the yard until he had had his injectons but we had him on the lead in the garden. the first time was so funny he hated it - as soon as it was attached to his collar he would sit down and refuse to move. But with gentle persuasion he learned it was nessasary. Taz was excellent with his basic commands he would sit and stay at 10 weeks!! So we put his lead on in the house took him into the garden walked him round for a few minuites then we made him sit (gave him a treat) took his lead off and walked around the garden together. Then we told him to stay whilst we walked to the other end of the garden then called him to us. He came, told him to sit (gave him a treat) and we attatched the lead and went into the house. All very well in your own garden you might say, but by 12 weeks he was used to this pattern an dit worked just the same in the fields and parks.
From a pup who hated refused to walk on a lead he is now an eighteen month old bugger who brings HIS lead to ME at least twice a day, drops it at my feet and sits waiting for it to be attached.

Before you let your pup off in an enclosed field you should really check that there are no escape routes before you let her off if you are unsure whether she will bolt and not return. As long as the area is enclosed you should attempt it straight away and with persiverance you will get there and no longer need to assess every field for escape routes!!!! good luck

Hi Kay,
I'm sure I'm stating the obvious here, but when you call him back, you often just praise him and treat him, then send him off to play again, don't you? Some people make the mistake of only calling their dog to them to put him on the lead and end the fun! No wonder the dog learns that coming back is a bad idea!
:)

Hi Kay,

Your pup is a teenager, what more can I say!! :D :D

Dogs have a teenage period somewhere between 9 months and 2 years and they will be really, really naughty and try your patience to the limit. Work through it, don't let them get away with anything and you will be fine.

Try taking a toy on a rope out with you, sometimes that works because you can keep hold of the rope when they have the other end and you can reach down and catch your puppy, put the lead on, continue the game with the rope and then let them go again.

Manda
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Have to add my view to this as we let Darcy off the lead in parks and fields from the word go, she was tiny and just tottered along next to us, neer venturing more than a few feet away from us. As she got older she investigated more but I've noticed with other dogs if you let them off once thery're too confident and will just run and run with no experience of coming back to you. You can practice recall all you want in the garden but a young dog let off the lead for the first time is going to want to explore. Let them see it as babies and its far less tempting when they're older.

Hi
Raffystaffy she is good with basic comands and we do try that when we are out she just wont come near enough to even grab her coller she sit but is off the minute I make a move, she is fine in the garden but not in the fleid.
Jeangenie We do try what you have said just doesn't work, when shes out and running free shes not bothered about treats, but I'll keep trying in the garden.
Thanks for your advice. Hopefully going back to the basics will work.
K

Wow have never had so many replies! Thanks everyone :)

Can see that the debate i have had going on in my head about this is not silly as its exactly what's reproduced here - on the one hand, there's no way that anywhere 'outside' is going to be Cavalier proof what with barbed wire, holes in the ground or in the fences/hedges, bits and bobs dropped around etc etc so there's the risk that she could run off/ hurt herself.

Thing is i definitely want her to be able to go offlead at the some point and i can well see just from taking her out over a couple of weeks that the more she gets to know somewhere & feel comfortable there, the further she'll venture away from me. In the garden if she's busy digging/chewing fuschias/hunting snails etc there's not a chance of her recalling immediately - but i notice out in the fields on her extender she's FAR better, she always sticks by us as SHE's scared of loosing us - so i reckon to capitalise on this soon would be worth it as i really worry that once she's older, confident and doesn't look so much to me for protection, there's actually FAR more risk that she'll bolt off as soon as she knows she can go further than her current 8m max......

I will be absolutely b****y petrified though the first few times! I reckon i might try doing it with a bright long line on her the first couple of times (in open field so not high risk of her catching on something) just in case she strays too far/help teach her not to ignore my recall and am definitely going to let her know htat i have the tastiest treats in creation in my pockets!

Right - might have to try it tomorrow/Sun when pops can come out with me (am poorly so not great at running - hope i don't need to but better to have someone fit w me just in case!) - will let you all know how it goes......

And thank you everyone - all opinions are well appreciated, whether i've ended up going with you or not :)

Hi
Thats a good idea about the long line I might try that as my dog comes back near enough to be able to grap a long line , just not near enough to get hold of her coller. At least then she would be able to have a run, But what would you use a long rope or washing line or something or can you buy one in a pet shop?
K

We also let our dog a whippet off lead as soon as he could go out, if he starts going to far we call him once and run the other way and he's round our feet trying to trip us up in seconds. The only trouble we have is on very windy days especially now the leaves are coming down,there's just too many things blowing around to distract him only his trusty frisbee(free with his puppy pack from the vets) will get him back.

Cheers
Steve

I use 30ft long lunge lines (£8). Essentially they are for equestrian use but, being strong enough to hold a horse, they provide me and my dogs with plenty of room while i am still in control.
With my breed being the Akita they can't be trusted off the lead anywhere than the designated field on my estate, 6ft fences all the way round with a bolted gate. When on the beach the lunger is wonderful, giving the dog room to run and play without it being a worry to anyone else.
A good company to try is Cottage Craft.
Alternatively you can buy leather training leads from any good pet shop or pet supplies warehouse.

Hi,

Good idea to take someone with you, Cavaliers are usually pigs, so take lots of tasty treats with you and call her back at least 4 times during the walk, give her a few treats, loads of cuddles and let her go again.

Good luck and be BRAVE!! :)

manda
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