Hi all

Advice needed for a friend who is a dog trainer who has tried most things with these and nothing is working, the storey so far.......

They are litter brothers (gsds) sold to this couple who have let the bond between the dogs grow very strong, rather than the bond between the handlers being strong, they have always walked them together, let them play together basically everything is done between the dogs, so much so that they have now been seperated to try and establish individual identities, but when you bring the two together they just scream and try and get to one another rather than wanting to be with the person handling them if that makes sense, so basically they find each others company much more interesting and the people i fill need to make themselves fun for these dogs to take any notice of them, any suggestions people of what might be done to get them to start behaving individually and cutting that piece of string that is attached to the pair of them, it is the owners faults for letting this happen and not doing things seperatly with them, look forward to your ideas as mine and the trainers are running out.

cheers Diane

How old are the pups now?

Have they tried puting one in an outdoor dog pen. This way the one in the pen can see and watch while the other is being trained. They can do this a bit everyday this way they are in view of eachother and that seems to be what they need to work on. The one they are training must learn even though he can see his brother he still has to listen to his owner. They could try a game (frisby, ball ect) and also tasty treats. I think if they do training this way instead of seperately they will learn that they must listen to their owner. The one in the pen should be given a tasty treat as well, something to keep him busy like a filled Kong. I watched a show with two siblings, English Sheep Dogs, and this is what they were told to do. They checked in on them after a couple of weeks and they were getting a lot better. They were told to use their names a lot and worked on recall on an extended lead and alot of praise/treats. When the two were together they would both come when the owner called only one, now they come to their names and names only. They did all sorts of training like this, sit, stay ect. As he gets better to listening they can also move closer to the one in the pen and eventually should be able to work them side by side, hopefully.

Hope this helps, good luck

ttfn :)

They are just over a year old

the biggest no no is litter brothers bought/sold together any breeder worth their salt should know this its a big mistake. and to be honest do not know how to get round it the general rule is nueter the submissive one but then he never develops personality so in the end they normally ahve to rehome one and accept defeat and give one of them a chance to develope personality

Hi there,
I have only found this site a few weeks ago.
I bought 2 JRT brothers last November, they are 1yr old today. They got along fine until about 4mths ago then they started fighting, they are both neutered and well behaved. We left them to sort it out themselves but they ended up at the vet. Now they have calmed down a bit but sometimes they still "argue". When they do we just tell them loudly to STOP and they do. Will this be the end of it?? We also have a Mastiff bitch(neutered) and a Bullmastiff dog (neutered) who just stand and stare when the JRT's are fighting. We do not want to have to rehome either as they are fantastic little dogs other than this problem. When they have had a fight they lick each others wounds and lie down together as if nothing has happened and then 3 days later they are at each others throats again.

Doing rescue, I know of lots of older brothers who come in together, through no fault of their own (e.g. two 9 yo yorkies whose owner was very ill), perfectly happy with each other and would die if left without the other. Unfortunately, I also know of lots of dogs/bitches which need to be rehomed at the age of 2/3 because they seriously fall out with their litter brother/sister.

In general, litter bitches falling out are the worst. However, a friend of mine has a dog, his daughter has his brother living in a different house - they fell out big time at the age of 2ish and now can't meet at all!

But it could happen with any two dogs or bitches. My parents had two cocker dogs (not related and 4 years apart in age) that got on for 2 years - when the 2 yo tried to be top dog, all hell broke out because the older dog would never allow it. They had to be kept separate from then on (the oldest lived to 16.....) but they fought to the death if they met (you had to nearly knock one out to get it off the other's throat). I hate to say it, but it could possibly have been avoided if my parents had done things differently in terms of their reaction and behaviour at the first fight.

It can work out with litter mates, but it is hit and miss - it depends on the individual dogs and their owner. Best to avoid if possible.

Hi,
Mine seem to be getting on okay since the "big" fight. I hope this is the end, We have brought in a rescue.
The two Russells get on with him, he needs his leg amputated.
The big dogs are "wusses".
I hope they get on together as they grow up!!!
Everything I have seeems to accept whatever I bring in.
THEY ARE PURE BABIES.

I've been very fortunate with the litter brothers I've had to keep, in that, because I also have their mother and big sister, they know they're way down in the ranking and have never really squabbled. They call each other rude names occasionally, but that's as far as it goes. Mind you, we have done as much one-to-one with them as we can to try to get them more focussed on us than each other. It's damned hard work, but it seems to have paid off. They are now 4 years old, both entire, and get on very well.
:)

i suggest lots of one to one, and with each dog not too far away from the other, as in a real life situation they will still presumably still be taken out and trained and walked lots together.

I would in fact suggest clicker training if it has not been tried - completely different, and most dogs do tend to get very keen on earning their reward so it would get them concentrating on the owner more - we hope ;)

What i would say is that lots and lots of basic training would benefit, and always reward for example, onedog paying attention just for 5 seconds - with the clicker this is easy as that can be marked by the click and rewarded, and so gradually if the motivation is right, the dogs will start to pay more attention.

Try to keep a very special toy - most dogs like a kong on a rope - and each dog gets their special toy only a few times each week. It must be something they really like, there is a bit of an art to keeping this toy special as it shouldnt for example be kept around the house, it is only for clever dogs who pay attentoin to their owners :D

I expect it may take some time, but i reckon as you have already said, lots and lots of fun activities, and getting them used to concentrating. It may be worth in vestigating some calming remedies - maybe someone can suggest something?

Lots of luck

Lindsay

Thanks everyone that replied i will get the ideas to Karl who is doing the training.

Mattie, the person that sold the pups is not a reputable breeder just someone who had an idiot of a son who let the dogs run together, no health checks were done and no forward planning, i was horrified when i heard how the litter came about does wonders for the breed !!!!!

Can i just say that these two brothers dont have a problem in that they fight, its that they love each other to much to the extent that they cant stand being away from each other when they are near which is making training difficult, hence why i wanted some different ideas as to what could be done.