I had my dog titre tested a couple of weeks ago, not being sure whether to vaccinate or not, and had very pleasing results which i felt others may find interesting.

My dog had the puppy vaccinations, and then the booster last year and is 2 and a half.

Here are the results:

Parvovirus - 4096 (over 128 (think that was what the vet said) is acceptable).

Distemper - 4096 (over 1000 is acceptable)

Hepatitis - 2048 (over 1000 is acceptable).

I'm really pleased, and of course there is no need to vaccinate except i am weighing up the pros and cons of an individual Lepto vaccine. Apparently they are unable to titre test for Lepto for some reason. If i do get Lepto done, i will go for the Intervet vaccine, which my vet told me has less "extras" in the vaccine to react to than some of the other ones.

The vet suggested Lepto every 18 months as a compromise. Just need to think about it !

Lindsay (breaking open the champagne bottle :D )

Congratulations ( I think as I dont understand fully) Lindsay did you use homeopathy to boost the dog's immune system or what ?

Thanks :)

No, i haven't used any homeopathy or anything, i have always felt that in a healthy dog they will have "enough" immunity after puppy vacs and one booster, and wanted to test my thoughts out. At least that is the case this time!

Lindsay

Good news Lindsay, were the blood samples sent to Glasgow?
Dawn.

HI Dawn,

Thanks, and yes, the blood samples were sent to Glasgow :)

Lindsay

If you don't mind me asking, how much did that cost?
:)

Oh damn, i knew someone would ask me that LOL.

I can't remember is the honest answer :o :p and i have accidentally thrown my receipt away as had a clear out. Sorry JG. Maybe someone with a better memory can help you if they have had it done.

A friend who had it done said, i am sure, that it was about the cost of annual vaccination.

Lindsay

Hi J/G, think the price is on the web site & then add in the cost your vet cgarges for taking & sending blood.
It`s around about £26.

Christine, Spain.

Hi Lindsay, I've been pondering over having titre tests and then vaccinating depending on result. My pup is due to have his initial vaccinations tomorrow and the next four weeks later. I was wondering about the boosters for the following year as I noticed you had those done too. Can you have the titre taken after the first year or is it advisable to vaccinate then titre in subsequent years?

I'm no expert, as i just did what was right in my situation, but i would think that you could have titre tests done after the puppy vaccinations, (so titre testing around the time the first booster would be due). Probably best to discuss this with the vet though as I may be wrong.

I only did it this way as that was what happened with my first very healthy BSDs, same breed, related too - so just hoped it would work out :) My others were never titre tested or anything and probably had another one or two boosters in their lives as i was very confused over what to do so tended to avoid what i felt wasn't "natural"

Hth
Lindsay

Hi Pottie, at Glasgow they can titre pups blood & then work out a programme as to when to vaccinate them.

You can have your dog titred any age even before the first booster, you can have it done any time.

Christine, Spain.

Oh thats brilliant news Lyndsey:) :) :) I`m so pleased for you!!

Lepto is difficult, why don`t you have a read up on it before deciding?

Christine, Spain.

Thanks Christine,

I am really pleased esp. as Banya has had what seems to be a slight eye allergy to grass (comes out as conjunctivitis really) and have heard this may be due to vaccination as you know, except to be frank the allergy began over 6 months after so not sure about that really.

I am in fact now veering towards not having Lepto done, after all, but am still thinking, i will certianly need to do some more reading :) :)

LIndsay
X

Hi Lindsay

That is very good news and very interesting to see the figures. I don't have my dogs boostered but they haven't been titred either. I have been thinking of having titres done on the eldest (he's now 7) - it would be useful to find out what his levels are.

I wonder if the results you have been given are fairly typical ? If they are, it kind of supports the belief that some of us have regarding over-vaccination doesn't it ?

Thanks for sharing the information.

Joyce

The whole vaccination thing seems to be a little on the illogical side to me! I mean, we're supposed to boost so the dog produces more antibody to *whatever disease*, right? But if the disease is kicking around in the environment, the dog is regularly exposed and it's immune system is challenged on a regular basis, so antibody titres will be maintained at a high level anyway. There's only a real need to boost for diseases that are not regularly found in the environment (or those where antibody levels are difficult to maintain, like lepto?), and how are you supposed to know what your dog needs protection from if it is not titre tested? You'd think vets would offer to test more, after all, they still get cash, and if vaccinations are needed, they get cash twice! Surprised they don't go for that. Unless they get kickbacks from vaccine manufacturers. Cynical? Me? Nah, whatever gives you that idea, hehehe.

Hi Lindsay

How did the your dog cope with the blood test, does it take long, I really don't wasnt to vaccinate mine every year, but we are hoping for a pup at the end of the year and wouldn't want to put him at any risk either

Thanks

Hayley

Hi Hayley, not Lyndsey just me here, but all of my lot have had blood drawn for various tests at one time or other, last time all 9 of them for full blood panels. I held their leg, vet brings vein up just the same as in humans & draws small amount of blood from them with syringe & all over in 2 mins or less. My lot don`t really like it (but then neither do I if I have to have it done :) ) but they coped very well & forgot about it straight away.

Christine, Spain.

Thanks Christine, you are fast becoming the best authority on this subject! :) I think I will get my 2 done before the pup comes, Honeys booster was due in July and Dylan's is next month. I'm sure they will both be clear but will get it done for peace of mind for when we get our pup. I feel the Titre testing has to be the way forward, surely the Vets cannot argue with it, after all they will still be getting at least the same money

Thanks again, Hayley :)

Idle curiosity but what would you do if like in my area there is a lot of parvo (86 cases over the summer).

A dog with with acceptable levels of antibody would have the same protection as a routinely boostered one I would imagine.

Hi Frankie, if it was me I wouldn`t do anything at all, re boosters. As Lindsay`s dog titres show, it has the same immunity as a boostered dog so giving it another booster doesn`t make the antibodies any higher or give any more protection than it already has even if she was living in the middle of an epidemic of parvo.

If your worried about your dog you could have a titre done for it. How old is your dog?

Christine, Spain.

I agree, the point of the tests was to see if my dog was protected and her antibodies seem to be high and raring to go :D so i believe she is safe as any other dog who has been vaccinated. I'm no expert but that is what i believe and from remembering biology at school, seem to make sense :)

Lindsay

Hi Lyndsay, from what I remember I`d say those titres are high, going by when my pups were recovering from it & (you couldn`t get much higher than theirs) your`s may be only a little lower. I must try & find them, thing is they`re mixed up with a mass of paperwork cos it was all done by fax then.

Well done you Lyndsay & many many thanks for letting us all know, as you say it would be very interesting if others did it & then we could compare them :) :)

Christine, Spain.

I'd be be really interested to see the results of the tests on your pups Christine :)

Lindsay
:) :) :)
X

Yes so would I now Lyndsay!!! :) Can`t promise anything, cos on I`m back out again soon & then I`ve only got till Monday morning to mark where I want all the lecky sockets, switches & lights on walls etc for new house hmmmm! :)
But it`ll bug me now till I know :) :) Will get the boxes out maybe tomorrow afternoon, got to get them down from attic.

Christine, Spain.

Never be an expert Ch/Pud, just point everyone to them & their info :)
You know, I`ve spoken with a few real experts on this subject & what struck me most about them was how patient & generous they were with the time they gave me & willing to explain everything no matter what or how many times I asked it until I understood. They were all so very helpful.
The most I can do is point any one who`s interested, to them & their work :):)

I wasnlt with Banya when the blood was taken, but i asked the vet how she behaved and was told she sat and the blood was taken from her neck - she is used to being handled and likes the vets due to puppy socialisation classes there (in fact she pulls me in!!! :D ).

She had a sample taken last year from her front leg and got a bit excited/stressed, but she was younger and had just had a thermometer up her bottom

Lindsay

:D @ Jenna

It really helps if your vet at least keeps an open mind, mine is very good and i think what is interesting is that after seeing the results come back, she is very happy for me to not vaccinate (but does want me to consider Lepto).

So maybe more titre testing would get more vets being more thoughtful and less likely to push vaccinations so much....we can wish !!!

Lindsay

That's right Joyce, i was hoping the figures may interest other owners :)

It would be v. interesting for others to have their dogs tested and to "publish" the results and vaccination history, it would help us all feel much more informed i am sure :)

Just wish they could test for Lepto too, then we would have no problem :)

Lindsay

What exactly is leptospirosis, is that the one linked to rats? as we have spotted some rats near our lake Why can they not so titres for it, is it another reason to say they must be vaccinated annually? Do you reckon all vets will do the Lepto vacc singually?

Hayley

Yes, leptospirosis is the rat-linked one, which is also transmissible to humans (when it is known as Weil's disease), so it is very important that this particular disease is controlled.

i'm really interested in getting these blood tests done on my labs but i can't imagine my vet being into it, after all its going to be less profit for him in the long run.Has anyone found the same problem with their vets?:)

Hi Miloos, easy done:) Just tell your vet you want to have your dogs titred before vaccinating/boostering! Nothing to discuss it`s what you want to do & he has to respect your wishes. All said nice & politely, don`t see how they can object. Oh & print of your info from Glasgow Uni & let him have a read first :)

Christine, Spain.

thanks christine!!!i was just thinking of how much money he would miss from me with four dogs to be vaccinated each year!!!tough though , i will ask :)

Hi Ch/Pud, lepto is bacterial & not viral, you`ll have to look it up. Heres some links.

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm

Scroll towards the end for *Non Core* vaccines: on the link below.

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1

Christine, Spain.

I'll have a read of those too, thanks Christine.

I was just re-reading the letter in Dogs Today about the poor Dobe who apparently reacted to Lepto - the vet had suggested to give him Lepto. He ended up very ill only a few hours after the vaccine.

Reports are in the process of being sent to the powers that be, apparently.

Lindsay

Just wondering where you stand if you want to put your dogs into kennels...as they insist on up to date vacs????

Charley

Yes, Charley, this currently is a problem for owners who wish to board their dogs - most kennels do insist on up to date vaccinations.
But perhaps things need to change - if people can prove their dogs immunity with titre results, there really shouldn't be any reason why such dogs cannot be accepted.

Hi Charley, I think there must be some that do because on Chris Days web site he says he issues certificates for dogs that he`s treated with nosodes & they have been accepted by some kennels, you could always get in touch & ask. Also I`ve been told the local councils insist on kennels accepting only animals with current vaccs but is this law, because from what I`ve read some says *guidlines*. If it`s a guidline wouldn`t kennels be able to accept nosode certificates?? Or maybe if kennels don`t follow guidlines they won`t get their licence??

Christine, Spain.

Its a good question, i actually put off going to a course in Derbyshire with my bitch because i had to confirm she had had vaccinations :(

I feel that if the vet was to write a letter "to whom it may concern" stating that the dog had been titre tested and was oK for parvo, hepatitis etc that should surely be acceptable ..... but then of course we are back to the old question of what to do about Lepto.

Llindsay

There's a new pet resort and care centre that has been set up in Manchester. I was thinking of taking my old girl to swim there during the winter months and asked about if I had her titre levels checked could she go as I did not re-do my dogs every year. The woman looked horrified and I doubt that they wd. accept this.

As it is a totally new thing in this country I thought that maybe they wd. be up-to-date with what's going on in the world but they don't seem to be.