Hi Tracy.
Sorry to hear your dog has problems. Unfortunatley a good hip score does not ensure that good hips will be produced. However it is every thing you can do to ensure healthy stock. Hip dysplasia is hereditary to a certain extent but like everything in nature things can go wrong. I did Labrador rescue for 7 years and have seen dogs in much distress from this condition, I can imagine how upsetting this must be for you. As an example I know of one dog with a score of 2.2 and his littermate scored in the 40's. How can this be ? both parents scored under 10. I don't think it will do any harm to let the stud dogs owner know, but don't expect the dog to be withdrawn from stud, because he is healthy with a very good hip score.

I hope you can make your dog comfortable and this helps.
Dawn B.

I agree that the stud dog will not be withdrawn. It does, however, give the owner useful information for researching and deciding what pedigrees to allow the dog to be bred into for subsequent breedings. Hip dysplasia, while a genetic disorder, is also influenced by environment, such as exercise, diet, etc. (at least in my humble opinion). Since the dogs both had good scores, my only distress is lack of interest on the bitch's owner's part. If it were my bitch, I'd be scrambling to find out more.

Thanks for the advice. I will just let the stud breeder know. Megan is having hydrotherpay every week which has done wonders for her, last October she dragged her back legs but now she is jumping and running all over the place, and off the pain killers, the vet can't believe it when he sees her ( he has said that she will need a complete replacement, but at the moment she is coping ok). Unfortunately she has been fostered out to my parents, I have two other labs (18mths & 5 mths) and she needed complete rest.

I read somewhere that Chocolate Labs were more prone to HD, as anybody else heard this?

Tracey, can I ask what you have fed your pup and how much exercise you have given it?

It does happen, I know of a case of both parents and granparents being under 10 but one of the offspring scored 68. Records of the scores of prodgenee of dams and sires are kept to give a better picture of how the breed is doing overall, that is why it is important to score as many as possible in a breed. You will get a disappointing score sometimes and for the individual it is devistating, but it is the only way we know at the moment to improve the score of the breed as a whole.

Puppies can develope muscles to make up for the poor hip joint, keep exercise controled for the next 6 months and use any medication the vet gives you and hopfully you pup will be OK without an opperation. I would sent a copy of your hip score certificate to both the breeder and the owner of the sire. Jackie H.

Also if you haven't actually had them scored, and the x rays were taken over 12 months of age. Pay the extra £20 something pounds and get them scored by the BVA panel All Hip scores good and bad are published in the breed records supplement, so the bad score will be there for all to see (you can ring KC and ask for the Hip score of a scored dog) this way if the Breeder or Stud Owener choose to deny or ignore it, they can't!

Megan was fed on Eukanuba large breed puppy food and had very limited exercise, just socialisation and short walk on lead. Until their 18 months I know you should restrict their exercise, at the moment my other two labs are exercised seperatly due to their age differences, Megan had problems from an early age (even as a ten week puppy she did not play and move about as a puppy should) at the time we just thought she was quite. I just thought that her breeder would want to know that Megan had problems with her hips in case she decided to breed from her again (I have recently found out that another pup from the same litter has had problems with its elbows.

But what has the breeder said to make you think they have not taken on board this information and won't breed again from this bitch?

What makes us think that the bitch shouldn't be bred from? Remember it is two sets of genetic pooling there (along with everything in both dogs' backgrounds). I would just expect that the bitch's owner would be concerned, rather than dismissive (but then perhaps I misinterpreted the post where she said it didn't seem as if the owner cared).

But thats it Sierra, I cant work out from the post what response the breeder has given or even what Tracy is expecting from them.

The breeder contacted me today to say that she would'nt be breeding from the bitch again, when she bought her dog its dam and sire were not hip scored, but have been since and the dam has a high hip score. I never thought to check that the grandpaerents had good hip scores when I bought Megan. Apparently the one puppy she kept for herself has developed problems with its hips, which is why she has now contacted me. When I had our new pup (now 5 months) her breeder gave me the hip scores for 3 generations.

Yes it is better to have several generations of scores, and a good pattern of reasonable scores, but sadly even then the odd case of a high score or HD will crop up! though this is less likely than with high scoring ancestors.

Brainless is right, even if you have several generations of very low scores, every now and then a high score will appear. I know a breeder of GSP's who had between zero to three hip scores for 4+ generations in her line but still had a puppy score 30 out of the blue.

I'm wondering what you mean, Tracy, when you say the breeder was not interested. What action were you asking them to take and what did they say?

Something crosses my mind that reared its ugly head when I had problems with the efficiency of my dog's eye test .

I've included it as a point of debate, not insinuating that this has any bearing at all on the case in question.

The results depend on the honesty of the breeder presenting the correct dog to the vet for testing. In hip scoring or any other sort of testing for that matter, I have never been asked for proof of my dog's identity. In a breed with solid colour dogs, how on earth does the vet know which dog is being presented to him/her? Proof is not compulsory.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

This is always a possibility Jo, we do have reason to believe that “Phantom Puppies” have existed even at our eye testing sessions but knowing and proving are two different things. The real answer will come with DNA testing then it will be possible in disputed cases to test the puppies DNA against the recorded DNA of the sire and dam. Till then we are at the mercy of the honesty of the people concerned

Regards, John

That's a very good point Jo. I had never really considered that until you mentioned it! My dogs that have been hip scored, have always been either tattooed or in Bears case micro chipped. The vets carrying out the tests have always included those details on the forms and on the actual x-rays. So if the dog is not chipped/tattooed then the only proof that the dog is who the owner/breeder say it is, is by means of the registration/pedigree documents. Crikey, I bet that loop-hole gets exploited!

Do the vets read the chip though ?
Tracy, I had a pet retriever who when he was about 3 years old, the vet said had the worst case of hip displasia he had ever seen! he lived a very happy and active life until he was 14. He was stiff in his final year but never apparently in pain. I believe if he had been a working dog he would not have lasted nearly so long or if he had not enough exercise. The best regime in my opinion (and I appreciate this is not an option for many people) is to let them have ad lib excercise so they can stop when they have had enough but are not sitting around too much either. My dog was outside with me all day as I was working but just found a place to rest when he felt like it and (the vet agreed) this was his saving grace, so all is not lost for your Megan. Good luck.
Ted

Hello all,
Well Great excitement - Collecting Oliver (Lab Puppy) this Friday. We are visiting the vets on Monday- I'm quite nervous in case he finds anything wrong! regarding the Hip Dyspasia, they can't check for this at 8 weeks can they?
The Breeder said his parents had a hip score of 9 & 10 , so now aswell as being really excited I'm so scared that they find something wrong wth him, I guess its all part of being a dog owner?
I do hope things work out for Megan

annie

Your vet can examine him for initial hip problems they usually lie them on their tummy gently pulling the back legs outward and it depends on how the draw them in they can tell if there is a problem.whilst in the early months you can avoid hip problems by making sure he doesnt leap about off furniture,down stairs,in and out of cars etc.. as young bones are delicate I still hold my arm under my 9month old lab as she is getting out of the car and try to stop her hurtling around too much.
A big problem cropping up too is cruciate ligiament problems,tiled floors,wooden floors etc are quite dangerous as they rush in and slide accross the floor so I put non slip mats down in my kitchen. Good luck with your puppy

thanks Mattie for your reply- We will be very careful with him, Why was it that Megan's problem wasn't spotted? Is it something the vet does not always check? should I ask him to check... Oh God I really sound like an over anxious Mother!
i'm sure on my childrens records at their surgery they used to have that written about me!!

My vet always checks but some may not,dont worry about being anxious its a god thing to ask questions if your not sure about things,I find My Vet very easy to talk to if Im worried about anything and I write things down if I think I may forget something to ask how else do we learn?

Hi hope your new puppy is fine, we have had labs for 16yrs and Megan is the first we have had with problems, but it does make you paranoid, with our new puppy the vet checked her out really well and told me not to worry too much as he rarely sees labs with problems such as Megans nowadays with hip scoring , (our vet has been brilliant with advise, he has a rescue spainel with hip problems so has been really good in recommending treatment). Megan's problem was first discovered when she went for her 2nd vacination. I was concerned that she was not behaving like a lab puppy should has she just wanted to lie down all the time and was'nt interested in playing with toys and was very reluctant to go outside. At the moment she is a typical lab getting in to trouble and digging up the garden, the hydrotherapy has given her a new lease of life.

Hi tracy- This will be our first lab so everything is all a bit scary! but hip dyspasia, just sounds so horrible for the animal that could have it- I'm really glad Megan is making good progress, please let us know how things develope, I'm sure our puppy will be OK I'll let you know how things go.
This site is brilliant, I've learnt so much more compared to all three books I bought, When it was confirmed we'd be getting Oliver
annie

Annie
I am a new dog owner. We have had Thistle (yellow lab bitch) for 5 months and I am much more neurotic about her than I am about my 4 kids! We are going on holiday tomorrow and leaving her with our dog minder (who spoils her rotten) sob sob.
Enjoy your new doggie
Jane

Jane Hi

we collect him TOMORROW ..I can't stand the waiting!! My family are SICK of me going on & on & on! What do you feed thisle on? as now I've been told by another lab owner that the dry food can cause Kidney problems!! AHHHH its all worry I just want him home to cuddle & get to know him, My parents always had dogs & I'm sure they never had all the worries!
What about thisle's hips all OK so far?
Hope you have a lovely holiday..

Thistle has now gone off to the dog minder:-(
She has had had no problems with her hips so far, she is now 7 months old. I feed her on Bakers dried puppy food , but she drinks lots of water so I'm sure her kidneys will be fine. I hope you have a great time with your puppy.
Jane