We have two dobermann bitches, one is 10 months old and one is 6 months old. They are very happy to go and do toilets in the garden but only if the back door is open constantly. This was ok during the summer but now the weather is getting a bit nippy we need to shut the door. As soon as they see that the door is shut they do it on the floor. The 10 month old will go about 2 hours but the 6 month old is a nightmare and will only wait 30 minutes unless you are holding her or distracting her in some way. Its driving us crazy. Also I cant really keep the door open all the time as the big one will bark at anyone who walks past our back gate and this is a nuisance to the neighbors. These dogs bring us so much joy and they are very much part of the family, this is our only major problem with them. Any ideas would be appreciated. I also have a westie who is very good at holding herself, I dont know where I have gone wrong with the dobes. I never dreamed it would take this long to toilet train them.

I had the same problem with Cassie, shes a year old now and sometimes she will still go in the night, very rarely now though. I started crate training her about 3 weeks ago, before that she would go anywhere and everywhere indoors but refused to go outside, the crates done wonders and shes now clean all day and 99% of the time shes clean at night. I take her out for toilet 3-4 times a day and while shes doing her business I use a command word, piddle and plop :) Hoping eventually she will do her business on command.

Hi, thanks. The thing is I do have crates for both of them and they do spend time in them when they cant be supervised. I dont like keeping them in there all the time though. Its difficult keeping a check on both dogs together though. The 10 month old doesnt usually wee in the night in hers she is a lot better than the 6 month old one. The older one is out now while im on the computer so I can trust her to a certain extent as long as I know she has had a wee in the last hour or so. The older one is mine and the younger one is my husbands companion but since I am the only one here in the day I like to have them both out. They go in the crate at meal times and during the morning when Im cleaning and then I let them roam. I suppose I should keep them in there more often but I just want to molly coddle my dog all the time and have her with me. I shall have to be strong. ha ha. Thank you for your help.

How long was it before cassie was trusted to roam out of the crate??

Shes out of the crate now practically all day (as long as shes been toilet outside) still in there at night for the time being, she doesnt complain though. Shes been free to roam out of it since about a week ago, so it took her 2 weeks roughly to figure out what shes supposed to do :)
Have you had your dobes checked by the vet for any urinary tract or kindey problems?? I know they are only young but it could be a possibility if they cant seem to hold on for very long. Also, do they tend to 'go' in the same spot? some cleaning sprays dont totally remove the scent (we cant smell it but they can) I find that a spray bottle filled with warm water and some biological washing powder works well.

Yeah i have told my husband that maybe he should get his puppy checked out because sometimes she doesnt even squat she does does it as she is walking along.

My one should be o.k though because she only piddles on the floor when noone is looking so she knows it is wrong.

I think we are going to have to get disciplined and keep the dogs in the crates longer. It will be worth it if it works. Eventually i want them to stop going in the garden so our kids can play back in the garden. I want them to go in a patch across the road from us as it is muddy so it is easier to pick up and doesnt stick to the grass. You can get the underneath mud in the bag as well so it is totally cleared up. So ideally we are aiming for 4-5 times a day.

Its just you know what they say about dobermanns being velcro dogs well mine is just like that she always wants to be where I am. If I am on the computer she comes up and puts her paws on the table and gets in the way as if to say, stuff that and come and sit with me. ha ha. Sometimes I get nothing done because she is so affectionate I end up falling asleep in the chair with her. I know I have spoilt her. But I am going to try now and be strong and put her in the crate more often. Thanks.

I'm afraid dogs don't have any conception of 'right' and 'wrong' - what she has learnt is that peeing on the floor when humans are around makes *BAD* things happen....... I'm also a little concerned about the idea of putting them in the crate 'more often' - what is this supposed to acheive and why is it better than tacking them out in the garden more often?

Why not go out with them, then you can praise them for doing it in the right place. I keep boots and a coat by the back door, its the only way. If you are just shuting them out the back on there own, you cant praise, when they get it right.

Charley

When they were young I did go out with them and used the click - treat method. I suppose I gave up after a while because they would still go on the floor inside. I know. I should persevere with the click treat.

I was just following a suggestion. It helps for them to hold on longer doesnt it? Believe me I would much rather have them with me than in a crate all the time. My dog wont do a wee in her crate, she will go all night and hold on. My husbands dog however will wee in her crate and I have to wash her blanket every day. Since he is absolutely useless at watching his dog (if she was a football match then there would not be a problem) and she ends up weeing on my carpet, it looks like it is down to me to train his dog. I think the world of both of them and just want to do what is right. Yes i do leave the back door open because I do have other things to do. I have two kids and other stuff to sort out. But I do spend plenty of time with my dogs only they do have to learn that I cant be there 24/7 to watch them. But dont get me wrong I wouldnt be without them we just have to get over this glitch.

The ability to 'hold on' will only come with time - crating can be a useful tool if you aren't about to take them out - but it can also put a dog under a lot of stress trying to balance the desire to wee with the desire to not soil the 'nest' - taking the time to train them in the first place helps it all to happen quicker because they are younger.

Have you actually done toilet training with your puppies or just left the door open and left them to it?

If this is what you have done then start from scratch, take each one out individually (regardless of whether it is your's or your husbands) and say what ever word you are going to use for urinating - puddle, wee, whatever and keep this up in a light happy voice until the pup obliges then praise lavishly - but not enough to distract her from what she is doing.

Repeat with other pup

Repeat at 30 - 60 minute intervals thoughout the day. This will cause interuptions to whatever you are doing but is worth it in the long run to have pups that understand what the word means and will ultimately go on command and outside (unless they are desperate when they will quite natuarally go anywhere)

Christine

Thank you Kerioak for a nice helpful reply. It is so nice when someone want to help without patronising you. I get enough of that from my mother. I will try your method and I know from the Kerioak name that you know a lot about dogs and dobes. I am a newbie when it comes to dobermanns but I have lived with dogs all my life. My westies wasn'tdifficult to train. I think having two pups together has made things a bit more difficult but we will get through. They are fantastic and they make me laugh so much. I get cross with them when they are naughty but it doesnt last long. They look at me with their "who me?" eyes and I melt. They are getting so big now, my poor little westie has to strain her neck to look upto them ha ha. Thanks again.

i agree with Christine's reply, go back to basics with them :) and actively train again.

I had a similar problem when i trained my pup to use the patio doors in the summer (always open) and due to my stupidity she never learnt to use the back door - or at least she wasn't sure about it though she had used it a bit previously and when winter came we had a few accidents.

She did learn quite quickly, but you also may need to tackle for example, urine smells in the house - never use disinfectant to clean up as it contains ammonia which encourages dogs to wee there....use a special cleaner from the pet shop, or biological solution :)

I'm not sure if you mean hubby's Dobe has to literally go every 30 minutes - if that is the case i would advise a check up to ensure all is in order!

Lindsay

I dont think she literally has to go every 30 minutes. If you are petting her or holding her she seems to go a bit longer. I dont think she goes every 30 minutes in the crate. She does spend longer in the crate then the older one but that is not just for wee wee problems but also she just steams into the older one when she is let out and causes mayhem. She is still very much puppylike. Im sure the 30 mins will improve with time. I intend to follow some advice left on here.

I know just how you feel i got a dobe dog last year and a bitch in July this year and both of them actively went to pee on there beds .
every one says bitches are quicker than dogs but have yet to find that out.my dog was clean at 8 months but if i dont keep my eye
on the little girl she will go anywhere she is nearly 5 months old now. Both of them are crated at night and when we are out but otherwise yes they are like velcro and thats how i like it. Good luck it wont last forever although it feels like it sometimes .

Thanks for reassuring me i am not alone. My westie was quite quick, but then she is an angel from heaven and doesnt do much wrong. It was a big shock when I got the dobermanns. My life has never been the same, not that I am complaining, they are so wonderful. The older one is getting better. Do you find your dobes are better behaved when they are on there own? Mine are angels on their own, but when they get together well bull in a china shop comes to mind!!!!

Yes i agree having two dobies together can spell trouble infact i thought i didn't exsist when i got Ebony ,but i learnt my lesson and parted them for a little each day . My older one [ the dog] is so laid back on his own he is plesure.Two bitches together must be hell but fun at the same time,i love to see them playing,sleeping and talking to each other i would have a house full if hubby
would let me.