I'm having ongoing problems with Poppy's weight. She was a year old on 7th Sept, but only been with me since the end of June when I adopted her from a rescue centre. She is absolutely wonderful in every way(wonderful nature, perfect behavior-a really adorable girl) but no matter what I try she doesn't lost any weight.She is 35kg and does look overweight (can't feel her ribs).She doesn't look unsightly but I worry about her limbs and health in general. Poppy has been on Hills Lite for 10 days now with no reduction in weight at all, but what's now worrying me is something I read on a Labrador mailing list as follows:

"Both Science Diet and Eukanuba are preserved with ethoxoquin a cancer
causing preservative. Vets will frequently recommend these foods as these
companies underwrite Vet Colleges and vets also get perks from these
companies".

This has really concerned me and I don't feel I can continue with Hills dry food now. I'm just wondering if anyone else has come across this information before and would appreciate your thoughts regarding it.
I really dont know what my next option will be but Poppy is setting the vet tomorrow and this will be discussed I'm sure. Forgot to mention, Poppy has over an hours walk every morning, whatever the weather (woods and park, on and off lead) and also has about half an hour or just over each evening.
I would walk her more but she doesn't seem to have the energy. Would like to walk her mid-day but she really doesn't have any interest in this as still sleeping off the mornings exercise.

Thanks for any comments or help.

Best wishes,
Val

I'm guessing Poppy is a labrador?
I haven't found Hill's to be a very satisfactory general food for any of my dogs, so I feed mine on Chappie. Don't forget that any weight loss should be slow. If she is getting very tired with a long walk, could you try several shorter ones, if in the end the day's total is more than she is getting now?
:)

Hello Jeangenie,

Thank you for your reply. Yes Poppy is a labrador retriever(lovely cuddly one :-). I'm beginning to realise now that I've been misled regarding Hills! and I shall definitely switch. I know it will have to be a gradual switch again but I cant allow Poppy to continue with Hills after finding out this bad stuff. I'm searching via Google at the moment and quite shocked at what I'm reading. I was thinking of trying Bakers Lite as Poppy seemed livelier on Bakers Complete but when I looked at the contents there didn't seem to be much difference between Lite and normal. How confusing this all is. I previously had a Border Collier cross for 16yrs (lost him in June this year). I was lucky enough to have him from 12 weeks old and he was such a healthy boy. He was fed on Tripe canned food and never had a days illness, bless him (he was certainly never overweight either!).

Your idea about the shorter walks is good - its far too peaceful here all day! So yes, I will definitely try this from now on.

Thanks again for your reply and help,

Best wishes,
Val :-)

The stories you hear are true i personally would'nt feed hills or iams as the latter does cruel animal testing!!
There are so many better foods out there,have you tried B.A.R.F(RAW FOOD) i live in Australia so i cant really reccomend U.K foods.
10 days is to shorter time to see a difference in weight loss,give her some raw meaty bones and vegies mixed into her normal food,those should hopefully fill her up.
i've got the opposite problem to you i am trying to put weight ON my dog:)
there are so many more experienced folk here who will be able to help you out more.

good luck with Poppy

christine

Hi Christine,

Thanks very much for your reply and for confirming what I've been hearing today. I'm really shocked to think Vets can recommend Hills so strongly here in the UK - Money talks doesn't it?! but you would expect them to at least have more regard for the animals good health(although poor health brings their income to them of course!). This is a real worry. As for Iams and the animal testing - that really sickens me. I can't tolerate that at all and wish everyone knew these things.
Thanks for the idea regaring B.A.R.F and the meaty bones and vegies.I will read the posts about B.A.R.F. now and learn more. I do give Poppy carrots, cabbage and fruit (well, apples anyway), and she loves them all. (to be honest I don't think she would ever refuse anything, ha ha :-) By the way Christine, I think maybe I am a bit impatient and expecting to see weight loss a bit too soon, although I have been fighting this since she came to live with me on 26th June this year. I certainly don't want her to be too thin but feel she needs to lose the excess weight for her own good.
Lots of luck with your dog and putting the weight on! Just as much of a problem I know so I hope it all goes well.
Thank you again for your reply and help which is greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,
Val :-)

Vets who stock Hills or any other type of food sell it for a profit, so their recomendations have to be taken with that in mind.

I feed all mine on Burns and just reduce the amount the fat ones get, try giving carrot or cabbage to bulk the amount out, if needed, but if you try cabbage you may need a peg for your nose. There are other good foods on the market the choice is yours, I don't think you have to think in terms of special food, like us what works best is to eat less.

my vet told me once NOT to feed cabbage to dogs as they can't digest it so it causes bad smells and upset tummies

Hi jacki, been feeding my lot raw pulped cabbage or cooked for a couple of yrs now & I can tell you it doesn`t give them upset tums or smells & they digest it really well :)

Christine, Spain.

Cabbage is a cruciferous vegetable and is fine to feed dogs; excessive amounts may interfere with the thyroid function of the dog but it would have to eat more than I would suggest any dog would be interested in :)

Come as a bit of a surprise to my lot too Christine. Have a real job trying to get the veg waste to the wormery past my hounds.

just what my vet said, wasn't sure if it was true, my dog had a bad tummy once and i told vet he'd had a veggie dinner, he said that was why....think i'll change vets :)

jacki it may have been that you gave him to much veg at one go or something else unrelated so hold you`re horses on changing vet yet, if he`s good in other ways he may only need some *tweeking* regarding feeding veg/raw to your dog!:) :)
Do some research, theres loads of info on the net & join some raw feeding lists, ask questions, a good one is britbarf on yahoo, (even if you only lurk) & then have a chat with your vet. Me & my vet don`t have the same view on feeding & a few other things ......but we still respect other & get on well.

Christine, Spain.

So now you have you`re very own personal ecologicaly friendly waste disposal eh Jackie? :) :)

Christine, Spain.

Val,

You cannot believe everything you read, especially what amounts to rumours in breed newsletters, etc. I do not believe Hills is preserved with ethoxoquin. It is not listed on the label, nor is it listed on their web site (U.S. or U.K.), which have more detailed ingredient lists than the package. There was so much negative publicity several years ago that most major and premium manufactures pulled ethoxoquin out of their formula long ago.

If you really want a definitive answer, best to email Hills and ask.

Whether or not they are good at marketing and managing their supply chain (vets especially for their prescription foods) really has nothing to do with whether or not they produce a high quality, healthy product.

I am not advocating Hills, I have used it in the past and was satisfied with it. I now generally cook my dogs' food and mix in some dry, which right now is Burns. However, my dog does not really like Burns .. so I might switch to Naturediet and do away with all the fuss.

Stacey

Remember a product does not have to be listed on the ingredients label if it's not added by the manufacturing company themselves - ie if they buy in chicken meal (yuck!) and the supplier adds a preservative then the purchasing company use it, the preservative does not have to be listed as an added ingredient.........

<<<I do not believe Hills is preserved with ethoxoquin. It is not listed on the label, nor is it listed on their web site (U.S. or U.K.), which have more detailed ingredient lists than the package.>>>

Not in all of their products, no, though BHA & BHT is bad, too. It is listed in the Savory recipes, though I don't think you can get them this side of the pond...could be wrong though.

[QUOTE]SCIENCE DIET
PART III
(Also Available At Veterinarian's)
Science Diet Web Site
1-800-445-5777
Adult Formulas Savory Recipes
Canine Light Dry Canine Senior Beef and Rice Chicken and Rice
Corn Meal Beef Chicken
Soybean Mill Run 16% Source Of Fiber Chicken By-Product Meal Brewers Rice
Chicken By-Product Meal Animal Fat Preserved with BHA Propyl Gallae and Citric Acid Rice Flour
PeanutHulls 10.8% Source of Fiber Soybean Mill Run Corn Meal
Corn Gluten Meal Flaxseed Soybean Meal
Soybean Meal, Vegetable Oil, Natural Flavors, Dried Egg Product, Animal Fat Preserved with BHA Propyl Gallate and Ciric Acid, Flaxseed, L-Lysine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Preserved with GHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Ferrous Sulfate, Znc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganus Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid a Source fo Vitamin C, Niacin, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors, L-Lysine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, L-Arginine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Preserved with BHT and BHA, Chondroitin Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Salt,Dicalcium Phosphate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid a Source of Vitamin C, Niacin, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Grain Sorghum, Vegtable Oil, Animal Fat Preserved with BHA Propyl Gallate and Citric Acid, Natural Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Preserved With BHA and BHT and Ethoxyquin, [/QUOTE]

Looks like Ethoxyquin does go in Hill`s food then.

Christine, Spain.

Christine,

Looks like it goes in some formulas, but not others. I have never seen a dry beef Hills in the U.K., not even at shows.

In fact, it's a question I was going to post and may do. Why are there no beef-based dry foods? Some foods even go so far as to say no beef is included. But seems to be okay in dog treats.

Stacey

Don`t know Stacy, but maybe something to do with a lot of dog`s not tolerating/allergic to beef when it`s dried? I`m pretty sure the lamb one was brought out for allergic dog`s. You know foodstuffs are exported to Europe & UK from USA, & like Digger says, things don`t have to be listed if someone other than the manufacturer has added it :)

Christine, Spain.

Yes, you can get dry beef, chicken or lamb flavours in the UK. We swapped about all the time when we fed Hills. We only recently changed completes when we changed to a partial raw diet. We decided we didn't want any corn or wheat in our food, so we changed to JWB and have also picked up a couple of packs of Burns to try. The dogs LOVE it!

Wendy

Stacey - perhaps its due to the risk of BSE being cross contaminated into the human food chain, or somethihng along those lines? I am guessing they would only be using the bits humans wouldn't eat in dog food, which only leaves the bits you can get BSE from? I don't know for sure, I'm just thinking aloud :)

they can get round this also by listing it as an "EEC approved antioxidant", this appears on most of their bags of food. 

Be very careful when quoting about animal testing & Iams the company themselves did not do the testing you refer to & repeating this on the internet could lead to you being sued

Hi,

Personally speaking now I like the Hills puppy complete and feed
to the puppies this they are on it til 6-7 months of age.
However I do buy it at shows as it is more expensive at vets,never
had a problem with it pups alaways look in excellent condition on it I always
recommend it.However it what suits you and your dog.From 7 months I feed JWB
and find this is great also.

Briony :-)

I've never heard they do animal testing on this product ,will obviously have to do
some research.been using this for over 5 yrs.

Briony

Do some research briony - you will never touch it again!

Why would anyone want to feed their dogs peanut hulls?!

Hi Val,
It took me a long time to find a dog food that was reasonably priced and didn't contain these nasty chemicals!! After about 2 months I found one!! Red Mills Leader, I've spoken about it before on this forum. It's really good and all my lot love it. It's reasonably cheap at about £20.00 for a 15kg bag.

I know redmills is an Irish firm, do you know if it is easy to get hold of, I have see it at shows, but my pet shops and agricultural merchants do not stock ot

Hi,
I don't know about you, but my local pet shop can get it through the wholesalers Battleys. If you have any problems go on the Red Mills web site (just put it into google search), and contact your local agent. They should be able to tell you who stocks it locally.
Good luck!

Sarah.

Autarky is good too, and natural. My dogs have done very well on it this past year.

Ah, but is it as cheap. Red Mills Leader is only £19 for a 15kg bag!!

£11.49 for a 15kg bag from my local animal feed stockists!! Worth every penny! When I want a bit of added protein during the working season I just buy a sack of puppy Autarky and add a handful of that to the bowl (£11.49 for 10kg). I have noticed that Sainsburys sells the small bags but of course that works out more expensive.

Hi Val

I just came across your post and as I am also struggling with my one year old labs weight (he is a big dog and weighs in at 37Kg) I was wondering how you were getting on.

Our vet recomended Hills R/D, but I am trying to find out if this is the best alternative.

What food did you try in the end and how are you getting on?

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

I have always fed my Lab pups on JWB but recently on recommendation I put my 14wk old pup on Hills, he has shot up at an alarming rate, I figured he was going through the 'leggy' stage but now at 5months he has starting limping on his front legs. So that's it for me with Hills and I just hope that he will recover with rest but all the while he is resting he is not building muscle :(

Another reason its very slow and hard to get dogs to lose weight on 'complete' dry foods or anything involving biscuits is because they cannot digest it in the way we can.  We also do the BARF diet and my 7yr old ausssie cattle dog x border collie is looking fantastic on it and his excess weight just fell off once he started eating stuff which he could digest easily.

has poppy been checked by a vet?  sometimes a lack of energy and difficulty in losing weight can be related to thyroid problems.