We recently lost our dog,age 14yrs,a cross collie/alsation/lab.We are considering a KC reg.border collie pup and although I have read a lot about border collies on the web,I still am not sure if we have the right home and lifestyle for this breed.Do they make good companions/pets or should they by their nature be a working dog?It would be the only 'pet' in the household with two adults,no children,but my grandchild age 4 does visit us maybe 4-5 times a year and they also have a dog (german shepard),who is about 9months now.
Anyone with a border collie or who has experience of this lovely breed please advise.
We have been to see the pregnant bitch and one of her previous pups from her first litter,they have a wonderful nature and the breeder definately knows her dogs,but I felt she did not ask us many questions? perhaps because I told her our background,garden size etc and took along some pics.of our previous dog?
Some genuine guidance here please....

I've had Border Collies for 33 years but never owned a KC only registered one.mine have all been from ISDS only registered breeding(where all KC registered dogs originate from)Never had a temperament problem,mainly because they were all well handlled & socialized both by their breeders & myself, are/were also from sound parents & I train mine from day one. I have also had GSDs at the same time & I think as herding dogs they get along fine too.Mine have always loved children & have been worked in obedience in competition by quite young children.

I cannot speak for dogs from show/KC only breeding though

Thank-you for such a quick and positive reply.The parents of the pups 'to be' are both kc reg.hip scored,eye checked etc.and the pups will be eye checked,fully wormed,vacs.too,but I understand it would only be necessary to check the pups hips later on if we bred from her,which we have no intention of doing.
It is also good to hear how they get along with gsds as my sister,who has now moved from Yorkshire to Scot.also has a gsd.and we visit her at least once each year.

Hello porkie
I don't think you'll have any problem with your grandchild with your BC as long as they are both brought up properly. My 2 BC's, (one from KC/ISDS, and one from show lines) are, I can honestly say 100% with kids. Although they can both turn to maniacs whilst working, when they are at home they are as gentle as anything. Something I can always remember is my niece when she was about 18 months old falling asleep curled up with my older BC, they looked happy as anything together and I've got the photos to prove it!
Have both parents been CEA/PRA tested clear and have you seen the certificates to prove it? Are the pups going to be eye tested/hearing tested at 6 weeks? Will the pups be KC reg? Has the sire been used at stud before and has the dam had any litters previously?
Lastly, out of interest, what's the line of these dogs?
Best wishes,
Char123

One of the most intelligent breeds I have ever met! Very quick, very bright..Will need plenty of mental stimulation, good and proper socialisation - if you can provide the time, the space and the 'education' it should work?
Sarah.

Hello Char123,yes the pups will be tested thoroughly and registered.The parents are clear and we have seen certs.I do not know if the sire has been used at stud before,I did not think to ask,we are very new to kc/pedigree pups! but the dam has had one previous litter and we met the 16/17month old pup they kept from this 1st litter with her mum,they both seem very happy and contented dogs.
The sire is from a stud somewhere in Leicester we saw his cert.and the mum is from Hampshire,the sire we are told is tri-colour and mum is a black and white,it is not the same sire as previously used for the first litter where all her pups were also black and white.We have no preference of colour so this is not a problem.
We have been shown the kc ?family line of the dam but to be honest as I know so little about pedigree dogs, I read it, but it did not really register as to names at the time,I was too engrossed with mum-to-be and her lovely youngster,as well as meeting other beautiful collies in the household.
The lady concerned has numerous rosettes and awards for obedience,agility,crufts awards, etc and trains not only her dogs but many others,plus she and her husband run a dog walking and sitting business,all fully insured of course and it became more than obvious that their love of bc's in particular is their life.We met quite by chance whilst I was in the area where she lives and works!
My initial doubts are not with the puppy,but with the lifestyle we could offer it,I appreciate they are extremely intelligent dogs and need tonnes of exercise!therefore as it would become our 'pet' I was concerned mainly that it would need possibly more of a challenge in it's life time,maybe through agility,competion,working etc.and that is not what we could offer,but we can give it a loving environment,plenty of walks and playtime!plus it would never be left alone,it will become one of the family as was our beautiful crossbred collie,we so sadly lost.
There are far too many collies in rescue centres and I would not want to add another to the statistics!I have today been out and bought reference books on collies to study more about their particular needs,so that we are fully informed to meet the challenge of this new addition to our lives.

I love Border collies but i understand your doubts. I own a young border collie (admittedly from working lines not show lines) and i now see why people do not reccommend them as pets. She is a lovely companion to me but sometimes i really do think that she would be happier working. This could be owing to her temperament as she is slightly nervy - prehaps a breeding fault as we were very nieve when meeting the breeder. They do need lots of socialisation and exercise. An hour long walk with off lead running is nothing to a BC, they nap for 10 mins or so and are raring to go again. My attends weekily training classes and is due to start agility soon as she needs to be kept occupied. My mistake was thinking that as they are intelligent that they are easy to train. That intelligence can be put to misuse - they can work out how to train you rather than the other way round - it takes perseverence. With regards to the child - i think they would be ok, as long as the pup is very well socialised with children when very young. Border collies often see children as moving sheep - exciting to chase and nip. I know a middle aged couple with no children in my area. They bought a very expensive KC reg BC a year ago. They spent a long time training it, he works all day but is able to take her to work, and his wife is at home all day and so she can stay with her if needs be. (It is primarily his dog. ) She is a lovely little thing but it has not been without problems - they encountered the usual chasing cars and bikes and the like. However one day they were visiting relatives with a young daughter and the collie bit her, purely and simply because she wasn't sure of the situation.
I am not trying to put you off - although it may sound like it. I just want you to make an informed discision - something i don't think i did. My friend has a lovely BC - no problems at all, doesn't have any bad habits, only needs one walk a day and is left alone whilst they are at work - but i have since found out that this is very unusual. My dog has 2 45 mins off lead runs a day and could easily do more.
A good book to read would be understanding the Border Collie by Carol Price. I'm waffling a bit here, but as i say, i am not trying to put you off, it sounds like you have done your research and could probably offer it a better home than most, but i do think that Collies do need a lot of challenges to make up for not working. Hence why many owners do obedience, agility and the like, to avoid their dog becoming self-employed. Sorry if i have sounded negative, but i have encountered many people who believe that a collie is not a pet and should be working and are not afraid to tell me so. You seem to have done a lot of research and have found a good breeder which is half the job done and so all you need to do is choose a good pup and start sovialising and training. Good luck!

I love Border collies but i understand your doubts. I own a young border collie (admittedly from working lines not show lines) and i now see why people do not reccommend them as pets. She is a lovely companion to me but sometimes i really do think that she would be happier working. This could be owing to her temperament as she is slightly nervy - prehaps a breeding fault as we were very nieve when meeting the breeder. They do need lots of socialisation and exercise. An hour long walk with off lead running is nothing to a BC, they nap for 10 mins or so and are raring to go again. My attends weekily training classes and is due to start agility soon as she needs to be kept occupied. My mistake was thinking that as they are intelligent that they are easy to train. That intelligence can be put to misuse - they can work out how to train you rather than the other way round - it takes perseverence. With regards to the child - i think they would be ok, as long as the pup is very well socialised with children when very young. Border collies often see children as moving sheep - exciting to chase and nip. I know a middle aged couple with no children in my area. They bought a very expensive KC reg BC a year ago. They spent a long time training it, he works all day but is able to take her to work, and his wife is at home all day and so she can stay with her if needs be. (It is primarily his dog. ) She is a lovely little thing but it has not been without problems - they encountered the usual chasing cars and bikes and the like. However one day they were visiting relatives with a young daughter and the collie bit her, purely and simply because she wasn't sure of the situation.
I am not trying to put you off - although it may sound like it. I just want you to make an informed discision - something i don't think i did. My friend has a lovely BC - no problems at all, doesn't have any bad habits, only needs one walk a day and is left alone whilst they are at work - but i have since found out that this is very unusual. My dog has 2 45 mins off lead runs a day and could easily do more.
A good book to read would be understanding the Border Collie by Carol Price. I'm waffling a bit here, but as i say, i am not trying to put you off, it sounds like you have done your research and could probably offer it a better home than most, but i do think that Collies do need a lot of challenges to make up for not working. Hence why many owners do obedience, agility and the like, to avoid their dog becoming self-employed. Sorry if i have sounded negative, but i have encountered many people who believe that a collie is not a pet and should be working and are not afraid to tell me so. You seem to have done a lot of research and have found a good breeder which is half the job done and so all you need to do is choose a good pup and start socialising and training. Good luck!

Hi porkie,
Thanks for replying. I'm guessing you want the dog just as a pet, not to do agility/showing etc with?
Would the breeder be Pam Harris by any chance? What questions did s/he ask you when you went to visit them?
Char123

It was not Pam Harris.We were asked very few questions,but that may be because I talked so much and told them about our lifestyle and our plans for the future puppy when she joins the household!

Just felt like adding my bit to this thread ..
We got our BC after seeing an advert in the Local paper. At the time we wanted an "easy-going" dog who would not be a problem with our neighbours sheep and cattle and would make a good friend for our Schnauzer. He came with no papers and the breeder asked us no questions. Not good of course - but the time was right and like all puppies he was lovely.
To day he is two years old and even more lovely. He is a friendly, intelligent well behaved (most of the time) - and highly energetic chap. I wish I could say it is because of my good training and knowledge of BC - but it definitly isn't. He showed a lot of the typical BC behaviour at first - too energetic,too jumpy,slightly nervous,uneasy with other dogs and he was chewing on everything. His most positive side was that he was very friendly with people and children ....... - - - Then we got some chickens, then some pigs - and then some goats - and he loved it. I am sure he must have said to himself : " Now - the world is starting to make some sense. This is definately my cup of tea". And yes - he is still a bit too eager sometimes - but his natural herding instinct is now put to good use - and I am convinced that it gives him a sense of purpose in life - and having that in place the rest of his caracter just seemed to sort itself out.
So, in spite of my ignorance things have worked out well - but I can now see that in a different situation this mail may not have had such a happy ending.

He showed a lot of the typical BC behaviour at first - too energetic,too jumpy,slightly nervous,uneasy with other dogs and he was chewing on everything.

Typical ? I've had BC's for 30+ years & none of mine showed any of this "typical"behaviour

OK - The word typical was probably unwise. With your 30 years of experience compared with my 2 I do admit I don't have much of an argument. I think I was just trying to say that he did show some of the behaviorial traits that I have - repeatedly - heard and read about in BC - some of them being a tendency towards obsessive behaviour and nervousness. If this is too generalized or not right at all then this is very good news indeed, and I am very pleased on behalf of the breed.

I breed, show and work my collies. They do not need mountains of excercise, but do require plenty of mental stimulas. I'm sure if you are going to a reputable breeder they will put you right about any doubts you may have about the breed. If you have any queries, why not contact the local Border Collie Club and have a chat with the people there, they will be only too pleased to help.

Only just caught up on this thread as I have been away for the weekend. IMO it looks like you are going in the right direction. On the whole a pup from show lines will be easier to live with then one from working lines, certainly than one from a farm. The parents should be hip scored and eye tested and the breeder should eye test the pups before they leave for their new home. I have a youngster now from show breeding and she is a delight, as long as her mind is occupied on and off during the day. You will need to be prepared to put a lot of work in during the early months with training.

My breeder didn't give me the third degree either, probably as she saw I had done my homework and didn't rush into anything, I had also previously owned a collie and took my photo's along too.

I echo the previous post, do contact the Border Collie Club they are a very helpfull bunch.

Keep us updated on how you got on, or if you have further questions.

Good Luck

Sandra

Dear Porkie,
I'm not a collie owner so can't speak with any 'own dog' experience, but I just wanted to say a big 'well done' to you for bothering to find out about them before you get your pup. Too many people don't do what you have done and too many collies end up miserable as a result.. At my training club, unfortunately I see far too many collies with behaviour cases. Just because people see them on 'one man and his dog' they automatically think that they're easy to train.
Its nice to think that there are still responsible peole like you who don't mind doing your homework first of all.
Well Done and good luck

Ali xx

Hello,
Yes in theory a BC from show lines should be easier to live with. But my BC from ISDS/very strong sheep working lines is quiet as a mouse at home, impeccably behaved (although wild on sheep/agility!) and my BC from show lines has a never ending supply of energy, is being channelld into competitive obedience/agility (and is also extremely good at sheepwork despite having many show champs in her line!). But I'd say go for a pup with parents that do not have a very strong "collie eye" (where they stalk everything and try and herd things up) and definitely dogs that have good temperments.
If you are interested, the West of England BC Club have a champ breed show in November, I think it's in Somerset. If you're interested I can dig out the schedule for the exact details.
Char123
P.S Make sure the pups are eye/hearing tested before leaving the breeder. Also ask will the breeder provide after sales advice/care.

Not necessarily, my friend has a working collie (not registered, off a Welsh Farm) and a KC reg border collie. The KC reg dog is a total nutter and is always on the go they have had problems with her, chewing everything, seatbelts in the car etc. Whereas the working collie is perfect quiet dog who just fits into your lifestyle, never chewed anything. I think it depends on the dog itself not wether it was bred to work or not, as I know another KC reg collie from brilliant show lines and she is an absolute nutter too. then there's my collie thrown out of a farm who is 110% nutcase. Maybe visiting border collie rescue and having a word with them?
Gina
Ps I'm not saying all KC reg collies are like this I am just saying that don't think that if you are getting a show bred collie that it will be any less quieter than a working collie. My nutter working collie is a very quick learner, but both my friends' show bred nutty collies don't seem to pick up on things very easily, they don't have the attention span of a working collie I don't think, as the one collie was trained in the same way as the working collie but just doesn't listen like the working collie. I suppose it just depends on the dog, collies vary so much in shape, size, colour, temperament.