Hello.
I would like to know if anyone know of a place that can deliver raw food in North London?
I contacted Landywood Pet Foods but they don't deliver this far.
Thank you very much.
Val

Hi Val,this is just to ask how you are doing and how is you boy? do you not have a big pet store near by most big pet places sell raw tripe/chicken/liver the lot my Bullmastiff's and Bulldogs love there raw tripe.

Hello, Corso girl. Athos is "ok", he is sleeping a lot and has been vomiting bile. His liver is inflamed, although there's no sign of cancer. Yesterday I took him to the park for some fresh air and he seemed so well, I was thinking there's no way I could have him PTS, he was so lively! But within 1 min or so he couldn't walk and was salivating...many thanks for asking.
There are some big pet shop not far from me but I would like to buy in bulk, as I have a freezer outside for the dogs, and also would like to buy raw bones, minced bones, carcases, etc, and I think it would be cheaper if I buy in bulk, I am quite excited about giving my pets raw meat, and I would like to give it to Athos, too.
Kind regards,
Val

If you join the BritBarf yahoo list they have a list of suppliers in their files section - also a good raw feeding list - very friendly and informative.

WEndy

Hello, Wendy.
I did have a look at the BritBarf site but I don't know if any of the places deliver to London, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Many thanks.
Val

what is exciting about feeding your dog raw meat? does'nt sound very nice to me what are the advantages?

THe advantages of feeding a raw diet (not just meat but offal, bones, eggs etc) is that it contains no colourings, preservatives, humectants, "fillers" such as sugar beet pulp, peanut hulls etc and, if your dog has allergies you can avoid allergens. It also means you do not have to feed cereals which a dog is not designed to digest.

It may not sound nice to you (eating grass all day sound horrible to me but horses, cows and sheep love it) but that is not necessary; dogs love it!

dogs are scavengers they will eat anything if their hungry,you can buy complete foods which don't contain the fillers your talking about,and dogs survive quite happily on it! raw food is full of bacteria they must have sloppy pooh?

You are right there Shaunie......dogs do indeed love crunchy food.......and there is nowt more crunchy than a chicken wing, or a chicken carcase.....mmmmmm lovely!

The barf diet/raw diet, doesnt mean JUST raw meat, as you will notice if you read the many many threads on the subject....it includes things like raw vegetables, fruits, oils, herbs, eggs, cottage cheese, fish, nuts and seeds.......

The idea being to provide a balanced diet over time.......NOT like a complete food does, which attempts to provide balance in every mouthful........which is not in fact the healthy way to eat at all.

If a raw diet did NOT provide all the necessary nutrients for an animal, we would not have any wild canids at all would we? I dont see foxes, coyotes, african wild dogs, wolves etc opening a tin of 'Doggomeat'.......munching on a bowl of mixer? Do you?

Em

well maybe thats because they can't! not because they could'nt live on it,ever noticed how thin and in bad condition they look but maybe thats because their not getting their cottage cheese?

Um, you have medically examined lots of wild canids have you????????

Lean and fit yes, possibly carrying fight wounds, yes.....thin and in bad condition, well if they were ALL in that bad condition there would BE

Um, you have medically examined lots of wild canids have you????????

Lean and fit yes, possibly carrying fight wounds, yes.....thin and in bad condition, well if they were ALL in that bad condition there would BE any........wild canids dont breed if they are not in good condition!

So, MY point was, if a raw and natural diet isnt good for wild canids, then we wouldnt have any because they would have died out......

To compare this to domestic canines is pretty fair, considering we have only been feeding them the highly processed pet foods for around 50/60 years, they have not evolved to depend on it......and these days more dogs die from cancers, liver/kidney failures, obesity etc, because of the inappropriate diet they eat, ie commercial pet foods.

And no shaunie, they wont be getting any cottage cheese, they will be eating animal faeces, gut contents, raw and rotting carrion...... soil, etc, so they wont need the cottage cheese to replace taht will they.

Em

well pet dogs have been surviving for years on commercial food so it must be fine,just diet alone does'nt cause cancers! so what do you wean a puppy on? or does the bitch regurgetate the meat (like wild dogs)

Yes, my bitch does regurgitate her dinner for her pups when weaning them! It's the natural thing to do! Don't forget, Shaunie, the first "commercial" dog foods were only marketed less than 100 years ago. What did 'pet dogs' eat before then?
:)

well when people buy puppies they are looking for a domesticated pet ,which has to fit into their lifestyles,what is the point of reverting back to how a dog would live in the wild.

When one want to do what one believes is best for the ones you love you adapt your lifestyle accordingly; for example if you smoked and were pregnant you willingly give up for the sake of the health of your baby, you baby proof your house. The same can be said for our animals and ourselves; we give up processed junk food and eat what gives living things energy, health and vitality and combine that with modern husbandry techniques, veterinary attention to give our dogs the best of both worlds.

But these are domestic dogs! My bitches also produce milk for their own pups, and have phantom pregnancies so they are able to help feed the pups belonging to other bitches! This is how dogs are designed. It doesn't mean they are savage! :rolleyes: :)

You are absolutely right that pet dogs have been surviving for years on commercial food but I want more than survival for my dogs I want optimum health, vitality and a robust immune system. People survive until 90 smoking 50 cigarettes a day, using your logic we then come to the conclusion that fags are just fine? I think not.

I think you will find, if you bother to do your research, that diet is a PROVEN cause and/or trigger of cancers in dogs and humans; hence why we are all urged not to consume just processed foods but take advantage of the anti oxidants, vitamins, minerals that are all present in a healthy fresh food diet rather than the additive rich, salt laden, sugar loaded c**p that most people eat.

Puppies are weaned onto minced raw chicken and bones just as they would be in the wild. Thereby avoiding eating products that no animal eats (apart from man) after weaning eg milk and in the case of dogs processed grains.

Studies have shown that there are far more skin diseases, allergies, cancers and other auto immune diseases now than before the advent of processed foods. Also various other studies have specifically proven that commercial diets have an impact on fertility etc.

Hopefully that helps?

even meat has salt in it ,dogs in the wild ate meat that they had just killed so its warm and fresh,not the same as buying from tesco's

Yes Shaunie, meat does have salt in it......although considerably less than is added to pet foods to preserve them.........theres very little salt in the WILD rabbit my dogs eat........yes, the wild rabbit that my lurcher catches.

Em

well that is absolutely nothing to be proud of ,i find that completely digusting ,what a sickining thing to stand and watch, you should be ashamed theres. no need for that call yourself an animal lover,you don't sound responsible enough to own a dog,get a life!! and a decent hobbie!

there is no 'standing and watching' involved Shaunie....yes, i am an animal lover, you think the rabbits, lambs, cows, etc involved in making your dogs tinned or dry dog food had a happy life, running around in fields free to do as they please???? You are sadly mistaken.

At least the rabbits MY dog catches are free and happy until the second they die..... and yes, i do have a decent hobby. I prefer it to spending time on the internet goading other people, annoying them on purpose and arguing about things you have NO knowledge of.

Em

what the hell are you going on about theres a huge difference when your chased and them caught and torn to pieces they do not die the second they are caught, my god why do you have a dog ? encouraging it to be a killing machine,and yes i know all dogs are capable of it but most normal owners would rather let it lay dormant in them ,let alone boast about it make you proud do they?

Yes, i am very proud of my lurcher, doing well what he was bred to do.
There is no 'ripping apart' the rabbits he brings me are retrieved live to hand, or die instantly, either from a broken neck or from shock...certainly no ripping to pieces!
I could tell you of hundreds of people who are proud of their dogs doing the jobs they are bred and trained to do...whats wrong in taking pride in a well trained, well behaved dog?

I chose to own a working lurcher because i wanted to work him......i have serious issues with the way domestic animals are raised for food so i try to avoid feeding either myself or my animals on commercially raised livestock.

I presume from your heartfelt feelings about the welfare of the animals in our foodchain taht you are a vegan, and feed your dog a vegetarian or vegan diet.......or is that not the case?

I own two other dogs, who do not work, but they do eat what Dill catches them......

I suggest if you want to decide what is cruel or not, that you go and watch someone lamping rabbits, and then go and see cows being slaughtered at an abbatoir. I know which i would prefer!

Em

Right Shaunie doesn't agree with crates/cages She doesn't agree with Biologically Apropriate Raw Feeding and shes right and those of us who have had dogs for oh say 20-30 years as some on here have ,have been doing it all wrong for such along time I wonder how weve managed :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

P.S. Shaunie I wont reply to you again because I've got my wild pack of raw feeders to keep caged LOL

and what about the rest of us who have been doing it for 20-30 years the other way and have all managed! my dog is probably in just as good condition as yours but won't be full of tape worm! she's just had her complete food and throughly enjoyed it thanks shes now in the house playing uncaged with her toys,HAPPY HUNTING!!!

It's important to bear in mind that it was through the feeding of commercial food with species-inappropriate ingredients (that nobody was told about) that cattle developed BSE. If only they'd stuck to the correct natural food (grass, hay, grain etc) that the animal had evolved over thousands of years to eat, the whole terrible debacle would never have happened.

themxx -oh i see he brings them back alive ,so their just terrified and have a dog biting into their neck well thats ok them and what then you kill them ,well what a lovely person, lets hope your never in a situation where you need to rehome your dog cos it would not be possible you've ruined him you've brought out the killing instinct in him and people like you are a dam nuisense ,lets hope he never gets into a neighbours garden and brings floppsy back for his dinner!!!!

Yes pet dogs have survived for years on commercial rubbish but they have also survived even longer on a raw and natural diet. I think you should remember that dogs, before they became pets, were wild animals and lived off whatever they caught and vegetation from the ground. They didn't have access to a can opener or a pair of scissors to open a tin or bag of complete food. When I have a litter I always advise new owners to continue to feed the way they were reared - NATURALLY - which consists of raw meat, eggs, goats milk, cottage cheese, veg, a herbal food supplement and a natural meal and they are more than happy to do so. I even arrange for my supplier to deliver to them if necessary. My dogs have also caught the odd rabbit and whilst I do not encourage it - IT IS NATURE it is nothing different to what would happen if they were in the wild. I have always fed this way and my dogs look healthy, live longer and don't go to the vets every five minutes (the last time I went to the vets was five years ago to have a bitch spayed) so the proof is in the pudding!!

yes your right wild dogs don't have access to tins and can openers thats why they have to hunt for food!!!!! ,but pet dogs have been domesticated and you can kid yourself about about new owners if you like but i bet half if not more use the commercial diet contrary to what they say to you ,why do breeders assume they know everything there is to know about dogs even more than vets?

you have'nt been to the vet for 5 years don't you get your dogs vacinated then? oh no you probably use a herbal remaedy of some kind after all dogs in the wild never got vacinated or SPEYED!

Deleted - multiple post, sorry!

Shaunie,

You've made your point pretty clearly about raw feeding. That's okay, everone's entitled to their opinion but I really think that being rude and insulting the people that do is somewhat imature....how old are you by the way?
Why can't you just accept that every dog owner has the right to feed their dogs what they want...oh, by the way, I'm a RAW FEEDER and Murphy is in tip top condition with no worms.
I'll carry on feeding Murph what I do and not be swayed by all the negative comments that are always about...I only have to look at my dog to know what's best for him.

TTFN

Ruth

well if you look back to the begining of the posts you will see it was not me who was rude , i'im not interested in what you feed murph i actually could'nt care aless but i made my opinion to which i was intitled,and when people are abusive i will be abusive back if YOU can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen ,this is called a debate my age has nothing to do with it ,my initial question was 'how can you get excited about feeding raw meat and what are the advantages?' and all i got was a cocky reply as per usual,which instigated my next reply ,i do accept what people do but i do not have to agree with it and i really don't care what you think so don't waste your energy any further unless you've got something worth while to say!

Shaunie, if you really dont care what people think, why ask them?

Em

i did'nt ask people to be patronising and cocky with their replys certain people think they are the only ones entitled to an opinion on here, i've fed all the dogs i've owned on commercial food and they've all lived a healthy life ,you reply in particular was un called for trying to get me going by boasting how your dogs kill rabbits all you've suceeded in doing is letting yourself down as an animal lover if you really feel the need to allow your dogs to do this you should keep it to yourself i now have no respect or interest in your opinions on owning a dog what so ever ! you know nothing about feeding PET dogs.

Shaunie, you're making your previous mistake of confusing me with another poster! I've never mentioned the word rabbit to you once! Please read through the thread and note who actually says what.

yea and i'm replying to thexx, so whos confused? not me

Shaunie, you're right, I apologise. Your post came through immediately beneath mine so I thought you were replying to me. Sorry.

Shaunie, well if you arent willing to learn from people you will stay ignorant then.

Im sure there are lots of people who wouldnt choose to train a dog to take rabbits.......that doesnt mean they would slag me off for it.......there are lots of things i 'could' do, but choose not to, doesnt mean however that someone who does do those things cant teach me something i dont know.

I notice you didnt answer my questions about whether you are vegan or not? Killing an animal is killing an animal, whether you do it yourself, or you let someone else do it for you. I prefer to do it myself, wherever possible.

Em

Shaunie, I'm puzzled as to how you can describe Tohme's reply to your post as being cocky!?! It answered your question factually and cheerfully. What was wrong with that?
:)

Shaunie, I totally agree with you. I was also appalled when I read the post about the rabbits - felt too sick even to reply, but just wanted to let you know I'm with you on this one. I love ALL animals and the thought of any animal being chased defencelessly is just too much for me to bear.
I dont want to enter into this argument but just had to let Shaunie know how much I agree regarding it being disgusting. I know some may feed their animals meat products but I just dont agree with this form of killing.(I dont like any animal being killed for others to eat - be they humans or animals - but I know that will never change, but the method of killing should change. The thought of my gorgeous Labrador killing another animal sickens me to the core.(she never would! she's far too sweet and wouldn't harm a fly:-)

Best wishes to all,

Val

"The thought of my gorgeous Labrador killing another animal sickens me to the core.(she never would! she's far too sweet and wouldn't harm a fly
Best wishes to all,
Val"

You would be very surprised if she had the opportunity.

Helen

Hi Helen,

Poppy has had the opportunity many times but fortunately she has no interest in harming anything or anyone. She walks freely off the lead in the countryside and we do see rabbits and fowl - she would rather kiss them than kill them :-) Only today we were feeding the ducks and geese and Poppy was nose to nose with them :-) Poppy is 1yr old and only been with me 3 months but I think I'm so lucky to have such a sweet girl. I wouldn't change her for the world. Previously I had a Border Collie cross(lost him in June this year) who also was a very kind natured dog and certainly never would have harmed anything or anyone. He lived to 16 and was such a good friend. Maybe I've been lucky but I have to say I couldn't live with a dog that killed or harmed any other creature.

Best wishes,
Val

Hi Val and Shaunie,
I hope neither of you have cats that ever hunt and kill birds, mice etc! That would be hypocritical in the extreme, to tolerate a natural behaviour in cats that you wouldn't accept in a dog.
:)

Hi Jeangenie,

Noooooooo! I certainly don't have a cat - I feed the garden birds and they are very tame. Luckily once again Poppy is a friend to them and leaves them in peace. They are a huge part of my life and I love them to pieces too. I don't dislike cats (as I said before, I love ALL animals and creatures) but I couldn't own one, despite them being very lovely. I often have to help injured baby birds which saddens me greatly too, so No, I will never own a cat.

Best wishes,
Val

no thats a reason why i would'nt own a cat there a pain in the butt killing birds ,but again most owners will try and put a stop to it by putting bells on their collars they certainly would not encourage or boast about it you can go on all you like but her dog killing rabbits is unacceptable and the way she cockily put it "yes the rabbits my dog kills" was cocky but sure as hell did'nt impress any real animal lover.

Ooops Val,

Just by sending the post, you've entered into the argument!:)
I don't like the idea of Murph killing rabbits either but if he caught one and ate it - so be it. Rabbits are part of the food chain and that's that. I agree, they look lovely, especially when I'm walking Murph in the evening and they're running across the battlefield but lets not get too sentimental about this.
And no, I'm not without compassion. I love animals and own a rabbit myself but he's not a wild one and that's the difference.....Murph would still eat him gien half a chance though!:)
I nursed in jamaica for two years and saw some awful human sufferering...it helps to put this animal thing into perspective when you think about it.

TTFN

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

Yes, I suppose you're right really! I have entered into the argument, without meaning to, but I dont wish to criticise others if they wish to do whatever they do.. just adding my comments and own opinions. Personally I couldn't love my dog if he or she killed another animal. I know it happens but I couldn't live with it personally, thats all. If there was a likelihood of coming across rabbits etc when out walking, and IF Poppy was likely to harm them, she would without doubt be kept on her lead, but I'm not in that situation, thankfully, as she would just want to kiss them!:-)

Peace! and best wishes,
Val :-)

Hey, im not saying that death of an animal is something to be proud of, its not it is a sad occasion indeed, however i AM proud of the way my young dog works.

I do not want to get into an arguement about the pros and cons of hunting with dogs, i live the way I choose, if you dont like something, then simply dont do it.

If you choose not to eat meat, and feed your dog a vegetarian diet fair enough, i have friends who are vegetarian and vegan and none of them have a problem with me taking my dog out rabbiting.

I DO have a problem with people hunting purely for fun, which is why i dont do it.

As i said before we all have different opinions, there are people on this board who will furiously defend their rights to dock their dogs tails......i personally dont agree with it for pet or show dogs, but thats not to say that those people do not have valid and interesting opinions on a whole range of other matters.

There are a lot of things in this world that are disgusting, immoral and just plain wrong, I think me taking my lurcher hunting, catching a few wild rabbits, some healthy, some needing culling (such as those with mixy) is not a huge deal. After all they do huge amounts of damage to farmers crops, and will be killed by some method, which ever way you look at it.

Em

its a massive deal and your matter of fact attitude is unbelievable choosing not to eat meat is completely different from choosing to let your dog kill rabbits,who made you god! to decide whether wild rabbits should live or die you do not have the right !! don't try and justify your disgusting behaviour.