my 6mnth old lab pulls so badly on the lead that i stopped putting a choker on him because he gets so excited when he sees anyboby, that his tongue goes blue. i bought him a harness but his trainer told me not to use it and go back to the choker because i had less control over him with the harness , please help what do i do.

Don't go back to a choker, you will just continue to have problems because your trainer is obviously relying on the choke chain to stop your dog pulling rather than good training. I would go straight to the pet shop and buy a headcollar - do not listen to your trainer if he says they aren't as good as a choke chain, a headcollar will help you and your dog. I recommend headcollars all the time and people are very happy when their dogs get used to them and stop pulling almost instantly. A headcollar will make your life easier and take the pressure from your dogs neck and shoulders. Loads of people on this site rave about headcollars so I am sure you will get more advocates of headcollars posting. There are lots of different brands - halti, gentle leader etc. go and see what your local pet shop has in store and remember to try them on your dog to make sure you get a correct fit - also be patient, he will not like it at first but don't give up the results are worth it.

thankyou, we love our new lab so much, its not nice seeing him cough and choke when we take him for walks, he is not agressive he just loves people and wants to say hello to everyone, i will try a headcollar and let you know how we get on thankyou again

Not only would I say don't go back to a choke chain, I'd also say don't go back to that trainer - any trainer worth their salt will recognise when one technique isnt' working (or actually doing the dog harm) and recommend a different approach. Most Labs are usually food motivated and using a positive technique such as clicker training (pehaps with a target stick) work well with Labs...

Hi there,
Our lab pulls and we've cured it by putting a halti on him. they just can't pull with them on. The only drawback is that they do find them a bit uncomfortable - my vet says it's because it's making them do something they don't want to do!:)
It really workd though.

TTFN

Ruth

We trained our lab with a Halti - worked brilliantly.
:)

i am going to try this, and im also going to find a better trainer, our lab Toby means everything to us and there is no way im training him with something that could harm him.

You,re doing the right thing - a good trainer would not recommend a choke chain.

I'm from the US, so I don't know if you guys have ever heard of a collar called the "Gentle Leader" it might be the same thing as the head collar mentioned in previous posts. It goes around the dogs snout and attaches to the leash. When they pull, it causes their head to pull back towards you, leading them to come back to the heel position.

Another collar we use is the "pinch" or "prong" collar, not the same thing as the choke collar. Do you have those? The pinch collar has worked great with Annie. It gives the same correction as they would receive from another dog when they act inappropriately. It causes a pinch when they pull, not a choke, so that it is not a constant correction. Once Annie got pinched once, she has never left the heel position with this collar on.

Choke collars are very dangerous and can cause major/permanent damage to the trachea.

So, what is a head collar anyway?

Hi,
If you do a search for 'prong' collars, you will discover how people feel about them in the UK. The RSPCA is trying to get them banned.

dont worry i wont be using a prong collar, yes i do not want to choke my lab but i also dont wish to pinch him too.

The Gentle Leader and Halti technique worked well with my 3 year old lab. After a while we were able to stop using it and only go back to it occassionally if she seems to be regressing. Labs are supposed to calm down quite significantly as they approach the 2 or 3 year old mark although some of them don't know that :D. Ours has become less inclined to be silly as she has matured but every so often out pops the nutiness :D :D. The "sensible" stage is a bit away for you especially when you're being dragged around by a large energetic puppy. Try one of the two good suggestions and I'm sure you'll enjoy walks much more. There is nothing worse than dreading meeting another dog for spoiling a great walk.

Hi

I have a GSD and I would say to definitely get a headcollar too. We used to have awful problems with Os pulling just as you say to get to another dog / person to say hello. We began to use a Gentle Leader on advice from our trainer along with beahvioural training and have nearly cured the problem 100%. One thing I will say though is that if you have a strong lab think about getting a Dogmatic - this is basically a Gentle Leader / Halti but made out of leather with a buckle. It is a little more expensive but Os actually broke the snap clasp on his Gentle Leader once and almost ran out in front of a lorry. We learnt a big lesson that day and bought a Dogmatic immediately. It is very soft leather and doesn't seem to rub so much as the Gentle Leader on his snout.

We are now working him part on and part off the Dogmatic so that he is trained both with and without it.

Thanks

Whilst I agree that haltis work well on some dogs, they don't suit all 'pullers'.
I have a young dog (toy breed!) who could pull for Great Britain. Using a halti makes hardly any difference at all - except that he now snorts like a little pig while he pulls me down the road :)

I've given up hope of him ever walking properly on a lead.

thankyou all,
ive been and bought a halti and security link, and it worked instantly, he didnt think much of it but sure he will get use to it,
its nice to take him walks now, and my arms are still in there sockets,
i really didnt expect it to work instantly but it has,
thankyou so much.

ALTHOUGH THE HALTI WORKED TOBY HAS RUINED IT.
HAD TO GO BOUGH NEW HEADCOLLAR, BOUGHT GENTLE LEADER IT LOOKS A BIT STRONGER, SEENS TO BE WORKING SO FAR FINGERS CROSSED. :-0

SORRY BUY NEW HEADCOLLAR "WHOOPS".

Hi,
I used a choke before too but was never happy with it so I bought a Gentle Leader for my Springer. She doesn't pull at all now and the effect was immediate. No training (or trainer!) needed.

Can I ask everyone, when she's off the lead is it best to take the G.L. off or can I just unclip the lead? Just thinking about safety, catching on undergrowth etc. as she can get a bit barmy if she gets a scent.

Kath.

HI Kath I find it best to remove the GL before releasing my hound as he is inclined to lie down and try to pull/rub/scratch it off. He wears a half check to dangle his ID medallion off and I keep the lead handy to clip on to the halfcheck for momentary control. Have to say I didnt find the GL an instant solution as you did ( lucky thing!:))and used it as an aid to training. Like Sparkys owner I find it is useful in allowing the kids to walk him and hope he will graduate to not needing the GL in future.

Hi Lorelei,
Thanks. She's not worn it off lead before so I didn't think about that. Yeah, I can just see her coming flying out of the bushes with no GL and a smile on her face! She still wears a collar so I'll still have control. I don't do a lot of lead walking and she's always good with it but no doubt there's time for her to rebel yet!!

Thanks again
Kath.

hi kath i always take my haltis off my two,. amber in particular is always trying to rub it offf normally in the middle of a bramble thicket or a pile of sticks or any other igenious ways of gouging her eyes out. so itend to take it off but beware the crafty cow forgets her training when it comes to coming back to me so i have to hide it in my pocket and bribe her with a treat ot two (typical lab) but when she does she walks perfik all the way home!

Hi Dawn,
I think I'm definately going to take it off then! I should have no trouble getting Bess back as she actually runs back as soon as she sees the lead! She's always done it, I think she must be scared I'm going without her, makes me look good when everyone else in the woods is shouting "come 'ere you b****y s*d!! Believe me, she's no angel though....attacks the post, jumps up at folk, goes deaf when busy sniffing etc. Grrrr.

can well imaigne that with toy dogs - my cavalier is a little puller as soon as she sees someone and wants to say hello - i think part of the prob is that so many people DO stop and pet her!

anyway i had such a job getting a collar wee enough for her that i just can't imagine finding a headcollar to fit her. will just have to persevere with the stopping as soon as she pulls (adv of a toy dog - however hard she pulls, she's yet to move me an inch when i don't want to go - yet! :) )

anyway - good luck with the head collar, we had a trainer who tried to sell me a half choke for our cavalier when she was 10 weeks old, no way am i going back to her! there have got to be better ways.

:)

Katie

What is wrong with a half check collar ? Correctly adjusted so that it does not act as a choker they are great training aids. I do not advocate using head collars or harnesses on small dogs-to be honest I do bot like harnesses at all as there is little control of the head & anything infront of the harness. Roger Mugford used one of my Borders at Crufts to demostrate the harness he sells only to find my boy had got out of it.

The simple fact is dogs pull because they have not been trained not to. Lead training is very important if you want to be able to walk your dog & enjoy doing so. It is important to train away from distractions & other dogs at first & a little & often is the key. No more than 5 minutes for a young dog at a time.

The problem is people get a puppy & want to take it out as soon as the vaccinations are done to "socilaize". However I personally feel it is better to socialize with other dogs in a controlled place like a training club that out in public. The same with people better to meet people where the puppy feels safe like at home or a training club than out in public. I had a Border Collie bitch almost ruined because member of the public's child attacked her & injured her. It took years of work to get her so that children were no longer frightening.

So how to stop a dog pulling is to train the dog to walk on the lead correctly in private & then go out into the public & train again with distractions. It isn't always easy some dogs are harder work then others. Training clubs will train YOU how to train your dog, they are not there to train your dog for you.

I never "walk"my dogs yet I can show them successfully in breed shows & in the past WT & obedience something you cannot do if the dog pulls on the lead

This of course is JMHO & it may very well be after 40+ years I am totally wrong of course

if its between my dog pulling and choking on a choke chain, (which the trainer told me to use), and using a head collar which you can still train on the lead, then i know which one im going to use,
toby has also learnt to sit and wait at curbs on the headcollar, which he will also do now without headcollar in the garden, he has only been using headcollar for a short time but ive found it to be a great advantage.:-)

I did not suggest larger breeds use chokers I have only used one once 40+ years ago & do not own one now. Half checks are NOT chokers & I use ordinary collars on ALL my dogs including the GSD. I do not advocate head collars & harnesses for small breeds-that is the toys & similar sized dogs. Your Labrador Retriever hardly comes into that grouping.

Head collars are fine but & it's a big but you must have a lead attached to a collar as well in case the head collar links fail. A member of our club forgot one day & his dog nearly paid for his mistake under the wheels of a vehicle when the head collar buckle broke

Hailti instructions include this

I managed to stop Sparky pulling for while by following Lorelei's advice of walking backwards as soon as he started to pull, but have now invested in a Gentle Leader headcollar. Best thing I've ever done. He doesn't particularly like it yet, and tries to push it off for a couple of minutes before setting off on his walk, but it has certainly helped my back, and I take him everywhere with me again now. The only time I do relent is at training classes, as he works better with an ordinary flatbed collar and lead when training, for some reason.

(It also means that the kids can walk him on his lead again.)

When using a head collar is it better to have a short lead or a normal length, I have the dogmatic head collars for my springers and tend to have a long lead as they always seem to have their noses to the ground but I wondered if this is ok or should I have them on a shorter one to control the head better.They seem to be ok like this although at times they still try to get into a gallop.

The way I learned to use the GL was to have a very long lead and keep it slack. If the lead tightens I stop and this prompts Morse to return to my side. Hes starting to return when I point to my knee and say " with me!" Near a road I use a shorter lead but however long it is, the loose lead principle stays. Were working on off lead heeling just now and oh the joy of seeing my little dog walk beside me instead of hi - ho - ing into the horizon!

I use a halti and i have recently purchased a halti link from pets at home - its new stock apparently as i have been looking for one for ages. Its just a simple black strap that attaches to the ring where you attach the lead and this then attaches using a trigger hook to the collar d ring. You continue to clip the lead to the usual ring but it means that if the dog slips the headcollar as mine once did, the dog is still attached to the lead and so can't run off into danger.

"Choke collars are very dangerous and can cause major/permanent damage to the trachea."
Annie girl - how can you say that and then say you use a pinch/prong collar?!
I would also like to say that i have recently returned from France where it seems the norm to use prong collars. Having heard a lot about them i was shocked to see them in the flesh as it were. They look like pieces of torture equipment. Granted the dog walks nicely but so you blame him?! They must hurt surely. But why don't they use head collars over there instead, they work just as well and aren't so harmful? I'm not meaning to start a discussion or argument but i felt so strongly that i just had to mention it. I hope this craze never catches on in England!

What worries me is all these adverts for electronic training collars. They're obviously going to attract people who either don't know anything about training and are desperate for a solution or people who aren't bothered if they hurt ( and possibly even injure) their dog or worse still those that may buy them specifically to do evil. I've read about a dog being badly burned although that was a collar and fence system for keeping him in his pen.

Here if you want to look but it's not nice

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/RUFUS.HTM

Kath.

Hi guys-I have to agree that the majority of check-chain users probably have not been shown how to use them correctly. That said, there are hundreds of working gundogs in this country and they are usually seen on slip-leads, which work on the same idea and I'm sure that most people would agree that they look very well trained. Thats the difference in my opinion, they have been trained from a very early age that pulling is not acceptable.
As a Pet Dog Instructor, I felt that it was my responsibility to try various different types of training collars so I would know how to answer anyone with a query about them if asked by any customers. When I say 'try' I don't mean on anyones dogs (Just thought I'd clarify!). I tried them on myself instead although I accept that most dogs have thicker fur than my skin :).
I did try an electric collar (round my wrist_I'm not THAT brave)but only on the lower settings, and have to admit that it was pretty uncomfortable, it does worry me greatly that ANYONE can just go and buy one with no real training at all. I have seen one used, not by myself, but as a last ditch attempt to stop a dog from chasing/catching sheep, and I have to admit, it did work, but only on that particular dog at that particular time. As to the prong or pinch collar, then yes, I tried them too.
They are very popular in Europe and in the USA and I would have to say that in some cases, they do work. They are not like a check-chain, where the collar tightens and tightens until the dog stops pulling. They are much the same as a normal collar until the dog pulls, then the prongs give the dog a pinch, if the dog keeps pulling, the pinching doesn't increase but obviously doesn't stop either. They do look pretty scary though!
Haven't got round to trying the collar and fence system though! As for the headcollars, on the whole I think that their pretty good, if fitted correctly, but they don't stop the dog WANTING to pull, but physically stop him from doing so.
All of the training aids that I tried were successfull to some degree, but only on certain dogs. At least if someone at training asks about electric collars, prong collars, citronella collars etc, then I feel that I can give them a pretty good explanation of what they all do and feel like!!

Anyway, sorry about such a long post.
Ali xx
(P.S - I'm not for one moment suggesting that anyone else tries this at home- I was well aware of the possible risks before I did it:))

Blimey, you brave person. You and your nervous system have earned my respect!! :)

Kath.