Hi! I wonder if anyone can help... my Shih Tzu neutered male is 17 months old. He's been very good in the house for more than a year now and goes out for 4 walks a day - 2 of them for over 1/2 hour.
A few days ago he started getting restless at about 3 in the morning - I'm afraid I was too tired to let him out and the next morning I found a poo in the hall.
This has gone on every night this week and even when my husband took him into the garden at about 3 one morning, he didn't do anything outside but the next morning there was a poo to clear up.
Last night we didn't hear him but I found a poo and a wee on the hall floor.
I think there might be something he's eaten cos although he doesn't have diarrhea, he's only doing a very small poo each time which is quite soft.
My husband and I have been having to get up very early in the mornings for work but while one has to get up at 5, the other hasn't and Mikey's had his usual morning walk. It might have upset his body clock though.
Any suggestions? I'm really hoping we won't have to start housetraining with the crate from scratch. It's quite bizarre and very disheartening!
Thanks
Alison

well to me it sounds like hes got some kind of problem holding himself this week I wouldent get to worried yet , its probably somthing hes eaten or a bug of some kind .
as long as you make sure to show and tell him, what hes done isent right then im sure you wont have to retrain.
although he should really be telling you that he wants out. my old dog was trained to bark at the door. unfortunaly my puppy wont bark but instead she jumps at the door tapping the handle so we can hear.
your dog is still young and mabe you could teach him to do that with a reward if he does it. it just shows you that he still knows its not right to go inside ,and you will know when hes been bad because you wont of herd that bark.
Dont worry or feel disheartend yet alison if hes still not right in a few more days get him checked out. hope ive helpted you Lady xx

<make sure to show and tell him, what hes done isent right>
I'm not sure what you mean, Lady? If a dog messes indoors the best course of action is to completely ignore the fact, other than clean up and put scent-killing cleaners on the spot. Pointing it out, or worse, telling him off, will only increase his tension and make a recurrence more likely.
Hope this helps.
:)

Thanks Jeangenie!
It's so confusing to know WHAT to do when they mess indoors! I learned the first time I had a dog (YEARS ago!!) to reprimand them and show them how cross you are.
Nowadays trainers tell you it's wrong and you ignore it.. all my friends say that's crazy so I suppose you just have to go with your own instincts. Most dogs wouldn't know what the hell you were shouting about unless you catch them at it but ours has a particularly good memory and I think if I discover a poo and he sees me doing it, I should at least make him realise I'm not delighted!
Alison

Alison - just wondering how you *know* your dog has an exceptional memory?????......

My thoughts exactly, digger. :rolleyes:

OK Clever Clogs!! If he's seen a bit of food under a certain bush, he will make for that particular spot several days later... or hours.... certainly where his stomach is concerned, his memory ain't bad... If you could have heard the tone of my voice you might not have taken that remark too seriously!

A pup that leaves home at 8 weeks will remember its breeder 18 months later...... dogs have very very long memories - for important things! ;) (Emoticons are a great help for getting across tone of voice :) )

Hi, Lovelylady! Great name!
Thanks for kindly replying - yes, I agree it's probably some kind of bug or even food he's picked up in the park... he's a terrible scavenger!
Unfortunately my vet can't see him till Tuesday so I'll have to wait.
What clever dogs you have to let you know! Mikey was hell to housetrain because he never learned to let me know - I had quite a struggle with him because for the first few weeks (he was 17 weeks when we got him and used to living outside) he thought he had to go INdoors and just play outside! Eventually with the help of a crate and constant walks outside, he became as good as gold!
Many thanks
Alison

well i supose jen it depends on whos training the dog , ive always showed my dogs what they did, then they know they havent got away with it . i have never had a dirty dog yet so everyone has there own training process and i was just giving my advice .
anyway alison sounds like you have had your handsful so well done your puppy training paid off.
If hes the same and you get worried just post a message on the boad im sure we will all try and help
Byeeeee xxxxxxx lady

Scolding a dog for pooing, (after the event of course) is an excellent way to encourage coprophagia. An intelligent dog will realise you get cross because there's poo on the floor, so, rather than have you get angry, will remove the evidence itself.

who said anything about scolding. a reminder of whats been done thats bad i think is fine, like whats that or a simple no.
right so alisons dog used to live inside and thought it was ok to poo inside,
now how exaclty are you going to show him the pooing inside isent good??
what would you say hey rover poo outside hunny . and ok he might poo outside too then,
but if he decided both places are ok . how exactly are you going to do it.food mabe only outside yea good idea ,
but say rover cant be botherd to go outside on that cold raining day for that tiny treat and hed rather have a quick poo and curl up infront of the fire??
and intelligent dogs will know to let you know they need out.
I think this is like the what way should a baby sleep argument.front they might not be able to breath. on its back it might choke .
be interested to see your reply thou

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, Lady.

I think with a dog that has started to poo indoors after a period of being completely clean, I would first have the vet check it out to make sure there was no physical problem causing it. Assuming all is well, I would then (if there was one particular place it was pooing) restrict its access to that place - maybe crate the dog overnight. Other than that, it would be a case of going back to housetraining basics - taking the pup outside every hour or so and staying with it (not just letting it out and hoping!) until it poos there. Then overboard with the praise!

I don't believe any dog has a conception of something being inherantly 'bad' - what they do understand however is that when there is a poo on the floor that their owner suddenly turns into something demented and suddenly they aren't the owners favourite dog any more - to solve this many dogs either turn a) to removing the evidence by eating it, or b) doing the motion in a place where it can't be found easily. If the owner tells the dog off on returning home then it can also lead the dog to become anxious about the reception the owner is going to give it on returning, which can actually increase the likelihood of the dog needing to defecate, so it becomes a vicious circle.

Training a dog to use outside is a lot more than just offering it a food reward - it's about establishing a behaviour - remember Pavlov's dogs??? Once a dog is properly house trained the measures it will take to avoid pooing in the house are incredible, unless something has happened medically or emotionally to override that desire.

Thanks Lady! I just hope the vet will sort him out and it's nothing serious!!
It's nice of you to actually try and give some helpful comments!
Alison

alison your very welcome , hope you get a better sleep tonight and he gets back to normal soon
Lady

Alison - both JG and Digger have given you very helpful comments and useful advice based on years of experience. They are absolutely correct in what they say, unfortunately, humans seem to enjoy "taking their dog and showing them what its done" instead of just listening to advice from people who have bred, trained, housetrained and owned dogs for years :rolleyes:

Hi ChloeH
It's interesting reading these boards again. I joined them last year and used them alot until recently when I tried to log on and had lost my membership! I have had dogs all my life but I haven't bred or been a professional trainer. What's more, having been to dog training classes for over 20 years (NOT continuously!) I hear such different theories! It can be confusing.. well, very confusing actually!
That's partly why I feel I should take different theories and try to use common sense to see which suits my dog best.
Actually, I don't think now this problem is so much that he's suddenly become 'unhousetrained' again - he's getting looser stools though still in minute quantities so it's more likely now that he might have something wrong with his bowels... which is obviously worrying. I'm going to ring my vet and beg for a quicker appointment as they can't see him till tomorrow evening.
And thanks to all who've shown understanding and have tried to help!
Alison4

Hi there,

Have you tried poop on command?? I have found it a very useful. Have him on the lead in the garden, either walk him to the spot you want him to go or simply walk about with him and when he 'goes' give praise (some people like to click and treat) with a command like 'be clean' or 'go toilet'. With some consistency and patience it will become almost like a reflex action to him to defecate. :)

If everything is ok medically, (including testing a faecal sample), I would recommend getting the crate out again. (Not as a punishment might I add). It is possible that a change in routine could upset him if he is a sensitive puppy.

I would also would suggest that you do not clear up the mess in front of him, we don’t want him thinking your his maid now after all your hard work. Use a good odour remover (if you don’t have any to hand then I have found that an enzyme action washing powder solution works well.... don’t forget to rinse). Make sure it dries thoroughly; place an upturned chair or an upturned box on it.
If you feed him a little earlier in the evening it might help him be good.

Good Luck, I am sure he will be back on track in no time :)
Hope this helps a little :)

Em

Hi Emma. Thanks for your kind reply!
I used to try that poop on command strategy when he was a puppy and it didn't work! Shih Tzus are notoriously stubborn.
I am worried about his health - the soonest i could get an appointment with my vet is tomorrow so I'll ask them to do a thorough check up.
Usually he's so good in the house so although he doesn't have a normal stomach upset ie constant diarrhoea, I'm concerned he might have some sort of blockage which is causing him to do these tiny poos at different times around the house.
Hoping not to have to resort to the crate again - I'll try watching him carefully and just putting him outside whenever he looks like he wants to go!
Fingers crossed!
Alison

so your saying your not suposed to show the dog yea? if it works then why not? my dogs arent nervous they simply dont poo all over the house ,

Lovely lady what we are saying is there is no point in showing the dog - the dog doesn't connect the poop with anything the dog has done, unless you catch it right in the act, and even then the best thing to do is to encourage the dog outside rather than waste time on the 'who did that!' thing - because it doesn't do your relationship any good - the dog doesn't know who did it - he just knows you ain't happy about something.......

i was talking about catching him at it. i know theres no point showing a dog a few hours after of course they would have forgoten about it .

But if you catch him at it, you don't have to show him! You just say "No!" and take him outside (and stay with him till he's finished, then praise). Afterwards, clear up when he's not looking and cleanse the area with odour neutraliser.
:)

Hi Alison,
Yeah those little Shih Tzus can be little monkeys to train :) Next time he does a little poo, I know its not very nice but have a look at it ;) if you can describe it to the vet (or even bring one with you in a little babyfood jar) it will give the vet a better idea of whats going on..... if it is very well lubricated it could be a little constipation for example... they can also check for other problems using your dogs 'sample' :) Is anything missing? check his toys for missing bits, and anything else he has access to... is it possible he has munched on something he shouldnt have? Be sure to express all your conserns to your vet :)
Try not to worry, if he is bright, drinking and eating well and there is stuff coming out the other end, its a really good sign :)
Good Luck :)
Em

Hiya Em - thanks for the lovely email! Great minds think alike!! I've been trying to look for a little jar to put a sample in for the vet - he did chew a biro up and there are missing plastic bits so I do hope they haven't done him any damage. VERY sensible idea of yours and I'll just wait eagerly for the next sample!! He is prone to constipation but when it's constipated runny poo .... if only I was a vet!
I wish my browser let me use those emoticons - I don't use them usually but they can be useful and I have never managed it on this board...
thanks for your understanding - I'll let you know tomorrow and don't worry - I'll be telling the vet everything! You obviously know Shih Tzus! Great dogs but oh boy, training them is a challenge! My Golden Retriever and Dachsie were a piece of cake by comparison...
Cheers
Alison4