Hi

I'm just curious here and it doesnt really matter, but when I bought Ruby she was advertised as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and we saw both her parents who certainally looked like Staffs to me :)

However, the people we got her from didnt have registration documents or anything. We dont care as we love Ruby to bits and only got her as a family pet, not to breed or show, but a few people have said that she doesnt really look like a full Staffie, she has even been mistaken for a Jack Russel! :D

Now I am wondering, is it possible to find out if she is all Staff? Perhaps you could try clicking on the link to my webpage and have a look at her pics to see what you reckon? Just click on the 'my photos' icon on the page to see them.

As I said though, this is merely curiosity and even if she is a Staff Russell we'll still love her just as much as ever :)

Helen

she looks like a staffie to me------i dread to think what your jack russels look like down your way, wouldnt want one with a head like your pup chasing my ankles :D

Dizzy, not many of us burning the midnight oil again I note!! Must all be tucked up in bed I guess :D

liberty (trainee insomniac)

oh hello :D . i used to sleep when i was younger!!!!! but then i drank too much too, :p

The staying up is not the problem....however getting up is :( :D

liberty

Well Helen, after viewing the pics my considered opinion is..........she's gorgeous :) I know very little about SBTs, but she doesn't look like a JRT to me, they have much narrower heads if I'm not mistaken, and she does look like a staffie.

I'm sure some Staffie folk will be along later, to do a more positve ID :)

liberty :)

She looks gorgeous!!!!!!!

Okay, the purists, staffie breeder may well say she is not of 'show type' pedigree staffie lines, but she sure as hell is what i see in my minds eye when i think Staffie!

Having seen teh staffs at crufts, their faces seemed to be much much wider and shorter in the muzzle, than your every day 'normal' kinda staff.
Ho hum, whadda i know, but i still think she is a little stunner!

(My Rocky is part staff, similar shaped face, though he is black n tan, longer in the leg than a staff and wire haired)

Em

to be honest im not too sure she is pedigree she doesnt really look it staff in my eye normally have bigger heads and are alot wider but im not an expert but i am enough of an expert to say she is definately one of the sweetest looking dogs i have seen in ages shes so cute

hope this helps
robert

She looks like a Staffie to me, maybe people mistake her because of her colouring, I have seen Jack Russells that colour, I think they get their true proportions later

Hayley

(She is very cute anyway! But if you don't want her ........................ :D)

Helen, difficult to say, the head does not look correct by we don't know how old when the photo was taken. Unless you are in the breed you are unclear what they look like before they mature. My thoughts would be she is Staffy type but I don't think she would win as many hearts in the show ring as she will in the park. She is lovely, you love her, so it is not a problem unless you wish to breed. Don't think for one moment she is a JR but I suppose somewhere in her background there may have been a JR slip in the door unexpected, but then there may have been almost anything in the background of most dogs.

Even when you breed carefully for years, making sure you only use the best studs available, your bitch may, out of the blue, give birth to a pup that looks, well, nothing like it should, with a strong resemblance to the breed it is supposed to be but at the same time not really right.

Hi All

Thanks so much for all your responses :)

The most recent pic there is the one with my daughter and that is about a month old. If I get time later I'll try to add some more recent ones.

She IS gorgeous and I adore the little tinker :D reguardless of whether she is a heinz 67 or not, perhaps some little dog DID sneak in the back door and have a wee bit of rumpy pumpy with Rubys mum! Dont suppose I will ever know for sure ;) But she is loved just as much whatever.

Thanks all :)

Helen

Some people are just basically ignorant about dogbreeds. I had a friend with a basset hound pup, and people used to ask him if it was a Jack Russell! :rolleyes:
She's cute though - not a showring Staff, but a lovely dog nonetheless.
:)

Have now added a few more pics! She is 8 months old right now, so I think she still has some filling out to do.

Thanks :D

Helen

Smashing photos, like the big mouth one, which is also good to have a good look at her. Still think she is Staff type but not what one would see in the ring, none the worse for that, she is your beloved dog, full stop.

lol, someone thought my sheltie pup was a yorkshire terrier?!?!

Hi she looks like a nice pup but i would say she is more of an Irish staff. but you need Mr Murphy to tell you more.

Without papers there is no real way of knowing. From the pics I would be saying ISBT. May be a cross staff also but looks far too much like ISBTs that I know. Rogue who comes on this board now and again has an ISBT that is almost identical to her. What height and weight is she.
Whatever she is she's a wee cracker of a bully.
Mick

From the pics I would be inclined to say a cross Staffy but then again pictures can be decieving .
There is definately Staffy in there . :) Its the ears that dont appear 100% Staffy to me . If she is a cross it could be the reason that you have had behavioural problems with her .
When you say you have seen her mom and dad - did you see dad in the flesh or just a photo ?? Also did you recieve a pedigree that you were able to look into ??
Lel

you can see a huge difference in the recent pics, i agree theres staffie in there, but doubt shes 100% , on the lying down shot you can see the wide cheek muscles that a staffie has, the shot that shes panting on, have you questioned the breeder about the puppy?????

Hi, my friend has a female Staffie who looks very similar to Ruby, although she's more "terrier" looking, her brothers and sisters are very, very Staff looking but she isn't - she was the last one left of the litter and my friend felt sorry for her, so although she isn't classically Staff looking, she has a typical Staff nature - which I reckon is the main thing, heh?!! My husband bought Buster as a "surprise" ... [not happy at the time but he grew on me!], the breeder had both Mum and Dad, Dad was huge, Mum had more the look of Ruby with a not so wide head ... but Buster has turned out like his Dad so far, as you know he's 11 months old, I'd say he's as tall as Ruby but much heavier, his head is a bit wider but because of his parentage, I don't know if it will go much wider, but as you say, you love him to bits anyway, sometimes it just gets annoying over the park, heh?!! Nicki

Hi Lel

To answer your question, yes we did see both parents in the flesh ( or fur!) they were both owned by the same people. The Dad was black and white and the mum looked quite similar to Ruby but obviously more filled out.

Dad was very friendly and dying to say hello, however mum was a bit nervous and the owner kept her on a lead the whole time we were there. In hindsite I should have questioned that more, as this may explain why Ruby is quite a nervy little dog, but at the time I just put her mums behaviour down to the fact that she was upset about losing her pups. Having read alot of the posts now, I am aware that the mothers behaviour can be very important, didnt know that at the time.

Having said that Ruby is a delightful little pup, and never gives us much trouble at all, unless there are other dogs about.

Interested to hear that a few of you think she may be an Irish Staffie though, I've never heard of Irish Staffies, what is the difference please? :)

Helen

I agree with you on that one. Very Irish Staff looking with the long legs. But she'll be a cracker once she fills out.:D
I remember when my Staff was 7 months old, I thought I had a JRT X aswell. My last Staff was a rescued 3 yr old, so wasn't sure what to look out for!! I e-mailed a lovely breeder, who told me not to worry, he was going through the "teenage gangly stage", and she was right. She also told me that depending on the breeding, it can take up to 18 months for them to fill out properly. 4 months down the line, he's looking wonderful;).
Sarah.

Now Im really confused, Ive been searching for Irish Staffies on the web, and just found a site that claimed that Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier is just another name for Pit Bull!!! Surely that is'nt right, I havent got a Pit Bull here have I?? This site said that it is just a name that has been made up like 'old fashioned Staffie' to cover up for Pit Bull! Does anyone else know anything about this or am I just being totally dim? I know Ruby isnt a pit bull!...

Helen

Relax Helen

No need for mass hysteria just yet. No you dont have a pit bull. Your dog looks nothing like a pit bull. There are people breeding pit bulls and calling them ISBTs there are also people crossing staffs with boxers labradors and other things and calling them ISBTs. There is a breed (as far as the owners are concerned) of dog known as th ISBT. Unfortunately it is now its turn to get a bit of bad press. As I said in my last post it is probably a cross and without any papers its all conjecture. What you have is a lovely wee bully dug.
You should only worry if she starts going out at night with a ski mask and club with her.
The easiest way to explain the difference is the ISBT is a working type of staffordshire bull terrier.

Mick

Helen
the Irish is very similiar to the SBT with the most noticeable difference being in height as they are longer in the leg . They are also not recognised by the UK KC . Having said that I have seen pure bred SBT taller than the standard.
It is unusual for the mother Staffy to be nervous and kept on the lead and could well the reason for Rubys behaviour as you mention yourself . What age did you view the pups ?
Maybe they kept her on the lead to prevent her jumping up at you . They are extremely friendly and love to greet everyone normally . Did the owners themselves say she was the nervous type or are you just assuming ??
Lel

Hi again Lel

The owners said the mum was a bit nervous about strangers handling the pups, in fact they took her out the room when they bought the pups in....guess I should have smelled a rat, but I knew very little at that time. Just goes to show how important it is to gain a bit of knowledge before you get a dog. That said, Rubys great with people, so I've no regrets :)

Helen

Well Helen , every dog is different and she may well have been nervous about the pups being handled although I must say Gus's mum was fine ( then again I think she'd had enough of them by then ) :).
We all learn through experience - me included -and you are happy with Ruby so it really doesnt mater if she is crossed wth a martian or the like :)
She is your dog and you love her and that is all that counts at the end of the day :D

Mr Murphy

Phew!!...thank you for that...I was just starting to get a weeeeee bit jittery there :)

No sign of Ruby sneaking out with a ski mask and club, so I think we are ok :D

Thanks!

Helen

Always find the term Irish Staffordshire Bull terrier a bit strange, why not just an Irish Bull Terrier. What is it anyway can't find it in any of my books. Anyone know it's history?

Jackie...from earlier posting

My understanding of the breed is originally (and some say still?) there was a line of Staffords sent over from England (Mallen era) and that they where used for field trials etc, they where bred true to type for generations whilst the English Stafford was bred for show lines. Whilst the English became stockier, the Irish working Stafford stayed healthy, leaner and more errr, athletic?

Later on because of the popularity of the APBT in England and Irleland, people with a liking for a particular "Sport" had no interest in keeping lines pure, they where after the holy grail, gameness.
Irish Staffords had proven themselves in many instances to be "deep game" dogs so the inevitable happened, and Breeds where interbred.

Everyone knows APBT are still being bred, not illegal in Eire? Because of the close links between "dogmen" they are over here in Britain also whether as purebred APBT or Stafford crossed APBT

Is there a Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier? I do not doubt there was a strain years ago. With so many of the pedigrees, including modern day, being falsified I do not think anybody can say for sure.

Do we have today a Irish dog that is recognisable by its "type"?

Sorry Helen, i have no advice about your dog, i was just relieved the picture was of you in fancey dress, i nearly missed the text at the bottom of the pic ;)

Lol @ Charlie24!!

You cheeky devil! How do you know I dont look like that most of the time? ;)

...thanks to everyone for all the advice, Ruby IS a cutie :) :D

Helen

LOL;)!

Thanks for the info, so they are 'Irish type' Staffords like we say 'English type' GSD's. And then there are stafford crosses that have been bred for 'sport' that could be almost any cross the breeders chose, but are called ISBT for expediency.

Hello Helen,

Just had a look at the photo's and I must say she's gorgeous :).
Like most here I would say Ruby is not 100% Stafford in fact she looks a lot like my friends "Staff" who I think is an ISBT or a cross StafF. I think people are confusing her with a Jack Russel due to her colouring, but regardless of her heritage she's gorgeous.

Karen

I agree she is lovely Helen :)

She does look very Staffie (and i am no expert here, I don't own one as you know - it's just my thoughts) but in "Wot you lookin' at" i could so see the JR head and body. My siser had one for 16 years so i know what they look like, but as i said i am no expert. It's puzzling and interesting, as in most of the other photos i would have said a little Staffie....then there is the other piccie, sorry can't remember the title, where her legs look very long.

Wonder if her mum was maybe a JRT or Parson cross, with Staffie, and her dad pure Staff? Its all pure conjecture really - maybe more will be revealed as she grows....:)

She's very sweet <g> :)

Lindsay

Hello
Have had a look at the pictures and either as Mr Murphy said she is an Irish Staff or she is a cross.
The ears are probably what gives the impression to people of a Jack Russell :-)
Did you mention before on a previous post you were concerned she was growling at your daughter or am I confusing you with someone else? :-)

irish staffs here

Those poor things you can see that all they do is fight and breed :-(

Hi Staffie

you have a good memorie! Actually we did have an incident when she bit my son, but it was when she was just a few weeks old and was provoked by my son who was playing too rough. Also she once growled at us when she had a bone, but these situations are now happily resolved and Ruby is wonderful with the kids :) We have taught the kids how to play nicely with her, and she will now happily munch her bone next to them with no problems.

She is really good with people, just not other dogs.

Helen

That is good to hear :-)
I just got thinking when you mentioned about her mom possibly not being 100% with people.
It gets me mad when people sell pups as pedigrees when they clearly are not. That is why I always advise people to buy KC reg dogs from reputable breeders so you can be sure you are getting the dog you wanted.
Luckily for you you are totally in love with your dog and love her for what she is and that is nice to know, but someone thinking they were getting a pedigree staff could be really upset.:-(

Hi im a staffy owner and would love to look at the pictures of you staffy but they are not there have i missed out

click on ladymojos name at top of page

Hi Staffie,
It was me with Buster who was growling at my 6 [now 7] year old daughter, I'm glad to say she has been re-educated about not teasing the dog, we've raised her profile a bit in terms of feeding him/ignoring him a bit more, and everything is fine. Nicki