is it the mothers colour thats dominant? i know my blue roan cockers farther is a orange roan and her mother is blue. but i often see dogs for sale that have different colours in the same litter. how does it work out??? how do some people get black and tanned and black cockers or golden and blue roan? im a bit confused or are these just puppy farms or breeders with a few litters advertising in the same colum?? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx lady

I don't know about cocker spaniel colouring, but I know genetics is more complicated than that! If the mother's colouring is a recessive colour, and the sire's colour is dominant over that, then the pups will show the sire's colouring but will be 'carrying' the mother's recessive colour which may show up in their own litters. You'd need to read some good technical books about Cockers to find out thier own dominant/recessive colour patterns.
:)

Jeangenie is right - coat colour genetics can be quite complicated, specially in a breed like Cockers where there are so many possible colour genes. To take your first example of an blue roan mated to an orange roan, what colours they would produce would depend on what genes the parents carry. Blue roan is dominant over orange roan so unless the blue carries other colour genes, then all the puppies would be blue roan. If the blue did carry the orange gene too, then a percentage of the puppies would be orange roan & the rest would be blue roan. Solids are generally bred separately to particolours (except for Working Cockers) & as in particolours, solid black is dominant over solid red, so if you mate a black to a red & the black carried no other colour genes, then all the pups would be black. The gene for tan markings is a recessive one, so both parents have to carry the gene to produce it in their puppies. If a solid is mated to a particolour, solid is dominant over particolour so all the pups would be solid (with or without some white markings) unless the solid carried the particolour gene, in which case, you would have a mix of solid & parti puppies. None of the Cocker breed books go into colour genetics in any detail so you would have to try & get hold of Malcolm Willis' Genetics of The Dog for a more detailed look at this subject.

Generally, if you see adverts for Cocker puppies saying "all colours available" or listing quite a few different colours, I would suspect this is a dealer or commercial breeder. However, it is perfectly possible to get a range of colours in one litter so this is not necessarily the case.

Ahh ok i see what you mean now i think im gunna have to look into it a bit thanks alot for your posts xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx lady

Jane - how is it different for working cockers? I have a blue roan working cocker who was one of a litter of chocolate, black, lemon and 2 x blue roan. Mum was lemon and white. (I believe thats the technical term for the colours!). I am not sure if the colours were "solid" in the way you mean but to me they all looked one colour! One day, if she turns out to be a very good working girl, I might like to breed from her and although I don't mind what colours she has, it would be nice (aesthetically at least!) to have a multi-coloured bunch.

I would be interested to know why it is not the same for the working strain.

Thanks

I think what Jane means is that working cockers aren't bred for 'correct' colouring - it is working ability which matters.
:)

Yes that's what I meant ;-) Working Cocker breeders do not keep solids & particolours separate when they breed in the way that show breeders do - as Jeangenie says, they breed for working ability so "mismarkings" are not considered at all important in the way that they are in the show ring. Solid coloured show Cockers are only permitted a small area of white in the chest area, whereas with Working Cockers which are of mixed parti/solid breeding, you frequently see white markings on the head or white feet for example.

yes im just interested in how they get there colouring too my dogs only 2 yrs old so she might have a litter next year. aparently one of her older sisters came 2nd in her group 3 yrs ago. at cruffs or mabe it was 4 yrs not quit sure. so it would be nice to get a nice sire . colourings might be somthing to look at. my dogs got a lil white patch on her head so ill have to look into if roans are allowed white anywhere. this stuffs interesting when you look at it in detail :D

Sorry, I was talking about solids only when I mentioned white markings not being allowed in show Cockers. Particolours (including blue roans) are of course allowed white markings & many blues do in fact have that white patch on the forehead :-)

I'm sure your breeder will be able to advise you on a suitable sire for your girl when the time comes. You have plenty of time to do your research & don't forget, you'll also need to get your bitch eye-tested by a specialist opthalmologist before breeding from her.

Yes of course she will have all necessary tests! I strive to be a responsible dog owner and pay attention to the boards!!

thanks jane:) she will be eye tested and i know we have to get the pups hip scored too .shes been hip scored ive got the info somewhere . ill look into it near the time.plus her breeder is fab if we get stuck im sure ill just give her a call
lady xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It will be the pups' new owners who get them hipscored, because as you know it can't be done before the dog is 12 months old. (Info for other readers of the posts who may not be aware of that!)
:)

I wasn't having a go at you Jackjat - my post was for Lovelylady who is a newbie to Cockers. You'd be quite rare if you do health screen by the way - only a small number of Working Cocker breeders eye test/hip score.

Jane don't worry, I didn't think you were having "a go", just quite rightly pointing out the importance of tests. I will certainly have eyes checked (as we did before putting our springer to stud) and am always nervous of hips because of my neighbour whose working dog had dysplasia so would feel more happy knowing we were passing on good genes but I will discuss this with reliable sources nearer the time. Teal is just awaiting her second season (17 months) so it will be a while yet before I commit to anything, she needs a good season working first, just to prove that side of her.

I am not sure I am any clearer on getting an idea how colours work tho! Perhaps a degree in genetics would help!!

Colour breeding genetics is a very difficult topic. Especially with multiple births. I once bred 2 brown min poodles together and got all black puppies. I know of people who have mated 2 black poodles and got the odd WHITE one in the litter. Explain that one!!!!!!

ive had a few cockers but after having 3 i thought it might be nice to let my new cocker have a litter. im just interested in how colouring comes about:) ill keep loking into it , thanks for all your help folks. :D:D:D

<<I am not sure I am any clearer on getting an idea how colours work tho! Perhaps a degree in genetics would help!! >>

You could be right there :-) Even the geneticists don't always agree on these things & I have read there is research going on at the moment which seems to go against traditional thinking especially in relation to the dominant black gene.

One Working Cocker breeder told me that Working Cockers don't breed true for colour but I think it is just that Working Cockers tend to carry more colour genes than their show cousins [$ also because there is no separation of solids & particolours, it's perhaps not so easy to predict what colour Working Cocker pups will be ]-)

I think I might just choose a nice healthy dog, regardless of colour and go with the Lucky Dip theory!

yep your right jacky . lets not bother about the colour i think breed for a good temp, no one wants a grumpy puppy do they.i got the happiest dog in the world i think, ive never herd her growl at anyone only shadows and things . mabe ill just find another blue roan to breed with.