I was pretty upset this evening and had my "story" all written out .. very discouraged and fed up.

So, I calmed down and will try to make this as consise as possible... if that's possible... Ok, It's not possible... I will be going on and on but only b/c I really need some support and help. I'm finding myself very frustrated and I want to do what's best by my companion. She's so bright and more loyal than I believe and deserves to be the best she can be, and I deserve to go about this in the best way I can .. and for me to teach her with happiness and with faith that WE can do it..

Thank you in advance for bearing with me.

I have a four year old spayed female Border Collie - Emma - and am having a few, I think they're minor, behavioural problems with her.

1. Barking: She barks at people who walk by or drive up to the businesses in my neighbourhood. Things I've tried and the successes of, include:

-Yelling at her (yup, I yelled) then remembered reading that yelling encourages them - they think you're barking too. So, yelling didn't work very well but I sometimes still yell b/c I am an stubborn human who probably needs more praise when I do good ;)

-Praising that she's doing her territorial duties then asking her to stop and praising her even more. So, she does indeed stop when asked - but not always.

-Speaking in a normal tone of voice when asking her to be quiet works most times, even when I do it thru an open window. But doesn't always work.

-When the above (minus yelling - it rarely works) doesn't work, I go outside and stand behind her and ask her to stop. Sometimes, to be completely honest, I am kinda gruff but not yelling. Success: Sometimes works but usually serves to humiliate her and she skulks around. Tonight she turned to me (I think I startled her - she was most "into" barking) and she looked a bit snarly with head down and "that look" in her eye. I took her by the collar and led her into the house and put her in the kennel for awhile where she laid quietly. I was a bit upset and thought to just get away from her for awhile and not let her into a situation where she'd repeat her barking.

Questions for issue #1: a) Why do dogs bark? b) Is there a way to curb the behaviour in order for her to only bark when someone comes into our yard? c) What am I doing right and wrong?

2. Whining: This dog is a whiner. I've never had a whiney dog before and it drives me nuts. She usually only whines when I have company. I've tried:

-Getting upset. Only increased the behaviour.

-Taking her out of the situation by putting her outside. Only serves to make her emit high pitched barks that would make Mother Theresa run away screaming.

-Paying attention to her by asking her to stop whining (ok, I know she doesn't know what I'm talking about but the dog's so smart it was worth a try). Works for the time that I am actually LOOKING AT HER and not at my guests.

-Banning her to another room. Heh. Whining increases ten fold.

-Asking her to lie down while I visit with my guest then treating her or praising her for not whining. This was suggested by a former obedience instructor. I was to praise her every few minutes to start then gradually increase the time between. Didn't work. She whined more.

-If she's in another room already, I let her near me (thus giving her her way) but under my rules - a long down, no treats and no attention (a friend suggested this). That's been working for the most part (still needs work b/c I think I let the behaviour go on too long before letting her near me - Note: untrainable and stubborn human) but I'm not entirely sure what to do next.

Questions for issue #2: a) Why do dogs whine? b)Is it possible for me to eliminate this behaviour? c) What am I doing right and wrong?

3. Jumping: Well, she jumps. Really high too. I can't tell you anything that's helped and I've tried most everything I can think of or that I've read or heard.

-Knee out.
-Lightly stepping on back toes.
-Tap on the nose.
-My father, without my consent, swatted her.
-I swatted her too, with my consent :/
-Training collar and leash when company comes and correction when she jumps.
-Saying a sharp "NO."

... and on and on and on. I've tried everything I know of and tried things consistently too.

Questions for issue #3: a) Why do dogs jump? I understand it has something to do with greeting their mother, like wolf pups do when the parents come back and pups jump and paw at their faces for regurgitated food and, for nursing when mama is weaning the pups. b) Do I have to start regurgitating my food? heh c) Yet again, what is the best way to curb this behaviour?

And that's all the issues I have at this time.

Some things about her that might help you to help me:

-Very sound shy. Especially thunder and fireworks.

-used to be afraid of many sounds. I got her used to the sound of a binder opening and closing (she'd freak and run away and hide) by treating and praising her when she was "brave." Then I spaced the treats out and she's now not at all affected by certain sounds. I can't control thunder or fireworks tho so I just let her be when these things happen. I also took away her hidey spots when she was young. I'd never be able to access her in an emergency. So she slowly learned to be scared and still be pretty much out in the open .. she be a very brave little dog .. tho thunder and flies still send her under cover.

-She's scared of the smell of lambchops cooking and very afraid of houseflies.

-She's recently become protective over me. Some young teenagers ran thru my yard with my permission and one ran towards me. She stepped between us. With hackles up, she stood her ground, barked purposefully but didn't growl or bare her teeth tho she meant business. She stood down when asked and sat by my side. She's never done that before .. matter of fact, I figured she'd help someone take me down in order to get them to play with her!

-She's "run interference" when things weren't good between my ex and I. I was told by a counselor that companion animals sometimes do that in order to protect their people. She would get very whiney and nervous and just be a royal pain when I was anxious or uncomfortable around my ex. In short, she was trying to get the att'n onto herself and off of me in the best shy way she knew how. I'm honoured.

-She likes people tho a bit pushy with other animals, especially those smaller than she is.

-Basic obedience training. Taught herself the swing heel when she figured that heeling around behind my legs was a waste of precious time and energy .. she was right. Excellent recall and stops on a dead run even when chasing a cat at a family farm... was taught in play in hopes that she'd stop if danger arose after she chased a wild rabbit for almost a mile before stopping.

-Big fun play training. She's an excellent retriever. Loves frisbee. But was uncontrolled during play time. I taught her to stop on command, first when running away from me, then running towards me (the latter was tough to teach). She stops, lies down, and waits until released. After perfecting this, I asked her to come back before reaching the object. Also tough to teach. I also, at times, ask her to focus on what I'm saying to her rather then on the toy. When stopping upon returning the object, she is expected to continue on without it if asked. She does. I don't do this every time I throw the toy b/c she starts anticipating what I'm going to ask. So I mix it up. Is this OK?

-Search 'N Rescue play. She finds objects that I've hidden in the house, usually limited search area to one room and sometimes outside. Keys, scented rags, toys, food, .. anything that I show her and ask her to sniff before hiding it. She sits in one room and waits for me to release her. Other people hide things too and she finds - thus not getting cues from me. I say, "sniffy sniff" and she puts her nose to it - even long sniffs up the cracks betw/ cupboard doors and standing on hind legs to sniff the air - very cute actually. She's uncontrolled unless I give her small portions of the room to work such as starting in one corner and moving around full circle, guiding and pointing where I want her to sniff next. She's been taught to sit when she thinks she found the object. ... And she almost always finds it.

-Loves car rides and knows the sequence of events before the car starts moving: Foot on brake, keys in ignition to start, hand on gearshift, look back to back up, sit down and enjoy the ride. She doesn't do this anymore - guess I've proven that I know how to drive, she be a fine driving instructor :) If I paused between "events," she'd stare at the area where the next on the list was to be occurring. She does NOT jump around in the car or run from side to side "chasing" other vehicles. Those things are not allowed and were nipped the first time they happened. She rarely enters or exits the vehicle without my permission (tho the waiting to enter is very very hard) and sometimes reminds me of these rules when I forget.

-From working stock. Bought at 8-10 weeks old. Very clean environment and very good people with loved and well-tended dogs. She was the shy one of the litter and they were happy I was taking her b/c they didn't think she'd do well with livestock. It took me many many weeks before I could walk up to her without her backing away.

-Fetched the first time I rolled a ball on the floor. Likes to stand a few feet away from me when I'm throwing something. I allow her to do it sometimes b/c it seems like a inborn behaviour. I do however, ask her to wait next to me while I'm throwing and also sometimes ask her to wait to run on command. She complies.

-I'm her only human companion along with two in-house rabbits.

-Not as shy as she once was but sometimes gets very frightened over things that I cannot identify.

-I have a disease that sometimes puts me in hospital. Our first separation was only 3 weeks after I got her and was for 4 weeks. Upon reuniting, she was most strange and greeted me in the way that a dog you've had for years would. My Mother, who babysat, said she'd not greeted any of them or their guests in that way. She was astounded. One photo shows her on my lap with a distinct "she's MINE" look. Because I am not well sometimes and b/c of the nature of my job (can't be away from a vehicle for long when working), big walks are not a consistent part of our routine. I try to excercise her in the yard with training and games.

-Gets lonely when I'm away tho she still eats and such, but is apparently "not the same." I think during one hospital stay she was depressed and looked horrid upon my return.

-Knows when I am sick (bowel disease) and wouldn't leave my side when I've had hemmorhages. Appears to be "worried." She quietly stays with me when I'm lying down (bring her in b/c she barks) and well, she's fabulous in that way.

-Goes in her kennel (wire crate) when I'm away at work or out of the house to places she cannot go. She literally freaks out in the house if I drive away without her but doesn't if she's in her kennel.

-I live in a rural area so no obedience classes nearby. I'm on my own here tho have gotten help from former obedience instructors (attended classes, when I lived in the city, with another dog who sadly died of an incurable disease when she was five).

-My job is very unpredictable - EMS - and am called out at all hours of the night and day. Someone lets her out and feeds her when I'm away, sometimes for 12-18 hours. I desensitized her of the pager (very loud and high pitched) by manually testing the tones and she now dutifully (and without fear) goes directly to her crate when it goes off. Is her way of contributing to the health and welfare of the community :) I admit that I am sometimes too tired to play big but we do play thinking games and the mental excercise seems to keep her level for a time.

-She's never done strange things like chase birds in the sky, run around in circles for hours, or other things I've heard that Border Collies do when bored.

-Is hard to take her anywhere b/c she's whiney and wants my attention every second, especially if other people are involved. Period.

-Obsessive and compulsive. Normal I think.

-Cannot be left outside of a store - barks until I reappear .. how to teach her to not do this? I think she's got separation anxiety from my frequent hospital stays during our first three years together? .. I'm feeling better now.

-Only eats kibble but would eat until she is sick if I let her. Was always like this. No worms either. She once stole a loaf of hot homemade bread off the counter and ate the WHOLE THING in a matter of 10 minutes .. and she'd just had her supper. She appeared to be pretty satisfied and there were many strange noises emitted from both ends for the duration of the evening. I must make great bread.

-Won't listen well to other people and "tests" newcomers. They usually fail miserably and she proves that she's smarter and faster than the average human.

-I tend to be a person who ruminates about things and can get anxious and fretful at times. My work can be intense, tiring and stressful and I'm not always in the best of moods. I'm timid and lack self-confidence in some areas of my life. I'm working on these things, for my sake as well as hers. Emma and I are like two peas in a pod.

And that's it. I've tried to tell you everything I can about her. I won't apologize for going on. I figure if I expect a fair reply I need to give you a description of her and our life together. I'm willing to do just about anything and am finding it difficult to dig up the incentive and motivation to do it alone - gets frustrating and somewhat sad sometimes. I do however need to take this step by step and very slowly. I feel I've failed and need to build some confidence in myself and ultimately, help Emma build confidence and in herself and in me. I think perhaps she doesn't respect me sometimes and I need to know why... tho that's probably pretty obvious to anyone but me.

Please note that she is barky, whiney and jumpy no matter what. Even when she's properly excercised both physically and mentally.

I love this dog very much and would really appreciate your input, criticisms and advice.

Thank You & Bright Blessings,

-Louise

Hi Louise

Would you like some information that I got from Border Collie Rescue - I think it will answer a lot of your questions... Email me direct if you would. [email chloe@iscario.com]email[/email]
Thanks

Wow! What a long post! You sound at your wit's end. You ask several questions, and I'll have a stab at a couple of them before I go back and study the rest of the post! You ask "Why do dogs bark?" - for much the same reason that people talk! They are communicating with the rest of their society, and reacting to whatever is stimulating them to do so. I praise my dogs for letting me know if there are strangers about (after all, I don't want to have an alarm installed when I've got dogs!), but if they don't stop when they've been praised, I call them indoors. Then I can praise them again for coming in when I call them, and there's no stress.

Jumping up: The best thing is to turn your back on the dog when she does this, walk away and ignore her till she's calmer with all 4 feet in the floor. Then you can crouch down and praise her. As you say, dogs jump up to get nearer to your face, so if you get your face nearer to them, they don't have to jump up! But don't expect an instant cure. It may take weeks of consistent behaviour from every member of the family till you see a noticeable improvement.

A few things from the rest of your post. Crying outside a shop. Practice tying your dog to a post while you work near her in the garden. After you've done this for a short while each day for several days, go out of her sight very briefly, but make sure you come back before she gets agitated. If she gets worried, go back a stage in the training again till she's relaxed again.

Stuffing herself with food. Normal. That's a dog thing, from when they were wild animals and never knew when they were likely to eat again. So if it's available, it gets eaten.

Hope that helps a bit. Others will be along to help more, I'm sure. Good luck.

Thank you for your reply. I feel better already. I really need to get into learning more about dog behaviour. Makes me feel like I can constructively and creatively deal with things if I understand some of the "why's."

Thanks again, much much appreciated :)

I would suggest the you contact Barbara Sykes via her website

She is real Border Collie expert & very helpful

I'd just add one more thing - be consistent as far as possible (obviously working irregular hours doesn't lend itself to establishing a routine - but dogs are often happier if they can predict what will happen, even if it doesn't happen at the same time every day - training is actually accoustemising dogs to 'when I do this, you do that', if you can establish a pattern of things that happen every day she will feel more secure) Added to this is the fact that you've tried many different techniques - choose one method, a technique that suits you and your dog, and STICK WITH IT. Most of the reward and ignoring based techniques will take time to work - the dog may even get slightly worse if it's being ignored before it gets better - but this indicates it's realised it's not getting the reaction it expected, so it's increasing the behaviour as more must be better!

Just very quickly as i am (as usual) in a rush, but do note that many animals show an "extinction burst" as Digger has mentioned - which is basically where they realise the former behaviour isn't having results so they do it harder/more/louder etc. It will eventually extinguish PROVIDING the dog isn't beign rewarded in some way, or finding the act (whatever it is) SELF rewarding.

Best wishes
Lindsay

Hi Lindsay,

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I so appreciate it!

I've heard of this before in human psychology classes and although I've tried to adopt it regarding Emma's behaviour, I'm afraid I always give in. Thus the reward - attention, be it positive or negative.

I think I also need a lesson in timing. Some things I've nipped immediately are credited to great timing. Quick, to the point, and over and done with. Other things I've ignored and she has "grown out" of them .. or perhaps some could be attributed to the "extinction burst."

When I brought her home she cried in the box by my bed - for hours. I knew I shouldn't have picked her up and I did anyway .. not out of pity but out of need for myself. Wasn't feeling well. She curled up on my neck and slept. Should have put her in a different room!

Miss Emma has learned well - can't fault her for that. Just have to figure out how to undo some of the teachings :)

I wouldn't worry too much about picking her up on that occasion; don't be so hard on yourself! :)

I had my pup in our bedroom for several weeks before she went downstairs, i feel it is very hard on a pup when they are suddenly taken to a new home and have no littermates, so IMHO there is nothing wrong in comfort ....... the "difficult" bit is learning to recognise when the dog is manipulating you and when to comfort, when to be "firm," and when to relax and chill. Most of us are all still learning, don't listen to anyone who says they arent ;)

I liked CArol Price's book "Understanding the Border Collie". Also maybe try some of John Fisher's books, although some feel he is slightly outdated now, he has a great way of putting over things and I would recommend "Why does my Dog...? " He shows a good sense of humour in his books, too.

I agree the clicker can be extremely helpful; maybe consider take a look at "Clickersolutions" - i am hopeless at URLS, think it is just www.....com.

There are many good books on how to teach clicker too - it can be very entertaining, and you may enjoy teaching your girl tricks too :) I have used the clicker for all sorts, including teaching the meaning of "Quiet" :)

There are also some dog mags aroudn which are excellent for owners, for example, Your Dog which had a good article in this month on how to teach the family pet the Sendaway and it has lots of other interesting stuff in each month. Also it helps to read about other dog owners problems !! <g>

Good luck

Lindsay

Hi Digger,

Excellent advice. I've been concerned of the irregular hours and we don't have much of a routine and didn't think of having a few things, even if not at the same time every day, for her to look forward to. She's obviously insecure. I mean we DO things, but she may need me to be a bit more purposeful in those things so she can have happy anticipation with results. It may even increase her trust and respect for me as well. I've read a lot of interesting material that another user sent me and it's most certainly got my mind going in a direction other than frustration.

Those who've replied here (with the exception of Gerard haha) have also helped. Thank you.

I will take into consideration your advice on choosing a method and sticking to it. Research is important right now before trying anything... after all, her behaviour is annoying, not dangerous and it can wait until I have a game plan.

Thanks again :)

Thank you Moonmaiden. I have her site loaded in another browser and am going to check it out as soon as I'm done here.

Thanks again for the tip.

Only just looked in and saw this - we had some similar problems - no where near as bad, but other at our puppy training expereinced different problems with different breeds.

What worked for us and our friends was the magic 'Clicker'. We went to a one day 'clicker training day ' at dog training , so that we used it the correct way - you can screw it up big time if you don't know what you are doing, and how/why it works.

If you haven't got a training class in the area I know you can get videos from pet suppliers along with the clicker. Give it a go - often frustrated intelligent dogs tune straight into clicker. We have been able to teach all sort by using it - tricks and obidience.

Just an idea ..Nikki

HEY EVERYONE!!! LOOK AT THAT! SHE GOT A DOG!!! and it is acting LIKE A DOG!!! and i thought it was a cat or something.

Watch out Gerard, the men in white coats are just about fetch you again!!!!!

Louise - take no notice of Gerard, he is our persistent absconder from the local home for the unstable.

>"Watch out Gerard, the men in white coats are just about fetch you again!!!!!
>Louise - take no notice of Gerard, he is our persistent absconder from the local home for >the unstable."

LOL!

Just think of Gerard as the village idiot, most boards have one, sadly he's not even a good example of an idiot.

More importantly.........good luck with your dog :)

liberty

Heh.

Hi Nikki,

She's not THAT bad actually and is doing what most dogs do. I'm not horribly worried(she's not biting and does indeed listen), just fed up sometimes and am open for the challenge.

I've heard of the "Clicker" but don't know much about it. Will look into it out of curiousity and who knows, might even try it out.

Thanks for your input - much appreciated :)

Just ignore ger if u look at the other post headed strange behavour you will see what a sad man he is .just gotta feel sorry 4 him:)

I have a 19 month old border collie who was also from working stock and the shy pup, and she exhibits most of the behavior you listed. She is very nervous and barks if anyone approaches or runs past. I think it is their way of a warning to stay away. The whining and jumping up is probably attention seeking, i would imagine it is particularly bad for you as you say you are her only human companion. Border collies have a bit of a reputation of being a 'one person' dog. I think it stems from the days they spent all day in the mountains with their owner - the shepherd. They create an intense bond with you, which whilst it can be nice it can also become a bit tedious, so i know what you are going through. I think maybe the best way to stop the jumping up is to step back when she jumps, turn away and ignore her until she has all four feet on the ground, at which point you praise wildly! Hopefully she will then soon realise that jumping up is pointless and gets no reward so she may stop. Whining is harder to stop as some dogs just seem to do it more than others.
The sound shyness is probably down to her nervous nature and the fact that collies are very sensitive. Perhaps you can get a sound desensitisation CD, i think you can buy them over the net in websites like pet planet, and play it for short periods on low and gradually increase the loudness and length of time so that she gets used to it being background noise. If she doesn't react praise and treat her.
It sounds like she is quite a typical working border collie though. Since having my girl i have noticed that a lot of collies with behavioural problems happen to come from working stock.
It sounds like you have done really well with obedience training - particularly given your circumstances (being ill and all). It seems collies are so intelligent but this can work both ways as you say, they can work out how to get out of doing something you want them to do.
Sorry i couldn't help you more, being the owner of a very similar dog i have first hand experience on just how difficult life can be - but somehow you love them anyway! ;-)

Louise

Being a Border Collie they do get bored very quickly and routine is important to them. I think she really needs to have a good free run at least once a day, I appreciate this is very difficult for you with your health problems, but is there anyone local to you that could take her out to some open space once a day. I think a lot of these problems could subside if she wasn't feeling so pent up.

If you only get one book get Carol Prices 'Understanding the Border Collie' it is excellent as a previous poster has said. I got mine through Amazon online if you can't get out much.

Good Luck and don't beat yourself up about it, you are going the right way about it asking for opinions and if only a few work it is a step in the right direction.

Sandra

ps ROFLOL at the lamb chop smell.

Hello,
Just been reding this very interesting post and I beg to differ on your chosen book by Carol Price 'Understanding the Border collie'. I like you also purchased this book (I on recommendation from Border Collie rescue who I got my Border collie from). It wasn’t until searching more that I found the Author Barbara Sykes and her book 'Understanding Border Collies'. I have both books and what a difference! There is no comparison, Barbara Sykes is a True Border Collie Expert, I have never meet her and have only read her books and after reading them it is so obvious that Carol Prices is nothing more than an imposter. Do yourself a favor and get Barbara’s book you will notice the difference as soon as you read the first page.

Have you visited Barbara Sykes site

I don't think you can call Carol Price an imposter - on what grounds can you base this? She has had and turned around difficult BCs. We all have different views, if it were me, i would buy both books and check them out. I have read Barbara Sykes' and was put off her by a few things, so for that reason would not recommend her. Thats just my personal opinion, though :)

Lindsay

You have your right to your opinion. Barbara has a good reputation both in & out of the trialling & training world. She is a Border collie specializt through & through. I too would suggest both books