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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Help me save my aggressive Dog
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 10:06 UTC
I have a big problem with my dog and deep down I fear there is no hope. He is almost 4 years old. The problem is that he sometimes attacks us, mostly me. This mostly occurs if I approach any of "his" territories like his bed, behind an armchair, or indeed, under anybody else’s bed, including other houses. He allows us to touch him near his food unless he has stolen it or picked it up from outside.

The funny thing is that it is mostly me that's the problem, and even if I get too close to my parent's bed he gets very suspicious of me and may attack. He is very friendly in other circumstances and always greets me joyfully.

Needless to say we love him very much, but as a consequence he is spoilt.

His "attacks" seem to be getting more aggressive to me and drew blood last time.

In desperation we castrated him last month but yesterday he was aggressive again.

Can anybody advise?

David Buttigieg de Piro
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:08 UTC
What breed is he David?
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 10:15 UTC
He is a crossbreed but I suspect mostly some kind of hunting dog
- By Sooz [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:27 UTC
Hi David...Sorry to hear about this behaviour.

Try this website: www.simplyk9.co.uk and www.dogproblems.com

there is also a book by Bill Campbell called Aggression to Owners deals with the dog that is showing emerging aggression by growling at its family, or has actually bitten family members. This includes guarding food, bones, toys, etc.
It's a start, hope someone comes along soon, to help you out further.

Good Luck!
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:57 UTC
Hi David,
I agree a good behaviourist would be invaluable, but I don't know how plentiful they are in Malta! Now I'm not an expert, but it sounds as though your dog thinks he's more important than you are, which is not a good thing for a dog. He needs to be taught that he is the lowest ranking member of your family. I don't know if he is kept indoors or out, but if he is indoors, is he allowed on the chairs, beds etc? Is he allowed upstairs? These are all things that elevate a dog (in his own mind) and can cause problems. It is important to remember that he is a dog, not a furry person!

Who is it feeds him? If you are the one who gives him his food he is more likely to start to respect you. How much training do you do with him? The more things you can teach him (sit, down, stay, stand, fetch etc) the more you elevate your own status. Make him earn everything - sit, or down for his dinner, "give a paw" for a titbit etc.

Hope this gives you something to go on - but don't get into a confrontation with him. He will undoubtedly win. Being the more intelligent, you will have to stop that situation arising. Good luck.
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 10:24 UTC
The Problem is finding a trainer - I live in Malta!
- By tohme Date 28.08.03 10:40 UTC
I would strongly suggest in this case that you purchase the book The Culture Clash and Dogs are from Mercury by Jean Donaldson who gives a whole method of treating this if you are on your own. Also Mine! a guide to resource guarding in dogs. The first two are easily available via Amazon. This needs non-confrontational methods;

regards

Allyson
- By mali fan [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:44 UTC
Hi David,
This must be heartbreaking for you. Have you red Jan Fennells' book "The Dog Listener". There are quite a few tips for dominant dogs in there. I'm no behaviour expert but I reckon that the dog thinks it's leader of the pack. Try to find yourself a good behaviourist who understands pack leadership and knows how to get you back to the top of the pack.

Good luck, and don't give up hope too soon.
Sarah.
- By lel [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:53 UTC
Try browsing through this site -
http://dogtraining.co.uk/rankstructure.htm
This is written by PC Dave Gross who is a police dog handler but the site deals with behaviour and communication in the domestic dog. It may give you an insight into WHY your dog behaves like this and what you can do about it .
Hope that helps
Lel
- By Patches [gb] Date 28.08.03 11:02 UTC
If there is no one in Malta that does this sort of work then if I was you I would contact a behavourist in the UK for some starting tips over the phone. I know most of the time they need to see the dog in the home and its own environment but they should be able to give you some starting points. Someone on here should be able to give you some names/numbers and recommendations of people they have used.
Some may not wish to give you help over the phone but its certainly worth a try!!

Have you had the dog since he was a puppy?
- By ladymojo [gb] Date 28.08.03 10:48 UTC
Hi David

My heart goes out to you. I have also had problems with my dog, she is a Staff, but thankfully she does not usually get aggressive with people, just other dogs. How does your dog get along with other dogs, is he aggressive with them too? And at what age did you get your dog? Was it a rescue dog with a bad history or did you get it as a puppy?

All I can suggest really is that you get some outside help with him, it is not a problem that will be easily resolved Im afraid. It will require an awful lot of hard work, commitment and consistency from all your family to turn him around. Is he usually aggressive with you, or is he ok at times? It seems that maybe he has the idea that he rules the roost in your house, and much as he is loved 'spoiling him' is not the answer, only reward good behaviour.

Could it be that he sees you as a threat for some reason, what do you do when he is aggressive in this manner? Do you punish him in anyway or do you simply walk away and let him win?

I know I ask alot of questions, but it is the only way to try to work out why he is this way with you. I wonder why it is you more than others that is in his bad books, are you away alot of the time?

Personally I would recommend that you ask your vet to refer you to a good trainer / behaviourist who will be able to visit you in your home and witness exactly how the dog is with you, then they may be able to advise you as to what can be done. I am seeing someone in September with my dog to help with her dog aggression. It is expensive, but worth every penny if it helps :)

Best of luck to you, let us know how it goes :)

Helen
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 11:30 UTC
Hi all,

To begin with thank you all for yor interest.

A bit more information - Yes, I am sure he thinks he is Topdog and yes he has access to furniture. I recently blocked his main territory (Under my Parents Beds) but he has simply found others. We have had him since he was a puppy and unfortunately probably made all the classic mistakes. Nobody actually feeds him, he has his bowl of food filled once a day and eats when he wants. I know this will probably have to change.

Could it be he is mostly aggressive with me because I try to keep most discipline and he may see me as his main threat?

When he attacks me my mother normally manages to hold him off and I walk away - and so yes he wins but what can I do?
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 28.08.03 11:42 UTC
Hi David,
I would think this dog could certainly be retrained to be an acceptable dog, so don't give up hope. However, it won't be easy, and the whole family will have to work together on it.
I would suggest changing his feeding pattern so that you are in control of it, not him. Feeding twice, morning and evening, would be a good way to start.
I have found that teaching basic obedience, and using it all sorts of odd moments, does wonders at concentrating a dog's mind and making him more responsive rather than reactive. Once you have taught him the basics (The Perfect Puppy book will teach you how this is done - the principles work even with an adult dog), when/if he attacks you, and your mother gets him under control, get him to "sit". That immediately puts the people in charge, and you can praise him for a good sit.

Make sure that whenever he does something you approve of, however small (such as lying quietly, not being aggressive etc!) that you tell him "good dog". Praising good behaviour works wonders.
:)
- By Sooz [gb] Date 28.08.03 11:50 UTC
There is TV Asst. Producer on the forum currently under the user name TELEVISION..... she is from Granada and they are asking for people with problem dogs, i know you are in Malta, but maybe worth a go!!!!!!!

May the force be with you!
- By Melodysk [gb] Date 28.08.03 11:55 UTC
Granada TV David and not Granada near you ;)
- By Patches [gb] Date 28.08.03 11:55 UTC
I would say with certainty that he sees you as his main threat hence why he is more aggresive and the fact that you do walk away when he attacks means that he wins the 'battle' every time and he knows thats all he has to do to stay in control. Combatting the confrontation is the hard bit and I have never had the problem so I would not want to give you advice incase I tell you something wrong.

There are some basic things you can start to change:
With his food start feeding him at the same time everyday, leave his dinner down for a certain amount of time and then take it away after the set time. He will soon realise that if he doesn't eat it when he is given it then it will be taken away and it puts a little more control in your hands, atleast over his food which is very important to him (I have had this problem with food and this worked for us).

The other thing is when you come home do you fuss him first before you do anything else, ie pretty much before you even get in the door and let him jump all over you etc? Well its quite hard to do but it works: When you get home ignore him for a couple of minutes (the whole family needs to do this), make sure you do something else first, ie put the kettle on before you even aknowledge him or make eye contact. Then on your terms call him and fuss him. It is hard to change things like this and its also hard to completly ignore him but it makes him realise he is not the most important thing in your house.

There is loads of things you can change its just knowing where to start to regain the 'power' in the house. These two suggestions have both worked for me and its a good basic starting point.
- By lel [gb] Date 28.08.03 13:10 UTC
David
found this - hope it is of use
Dominant dogs challenges other “pack” members that they regard as being of a similar or lower social status.

Dominance aggression is characterized by threats directed toward the owner when the dog feels challenged or threatened by the owner's actions.
A complete physical examination is recommended to rule out any underlying medical condition that may be contributing to your dog's aggressive behavior. If your dog receives a clean bill of health, a behavior specialist can evaluate your dog and provide an appropriate treatment plan as well as safety recommendations.

1. It is important to avoid any further confrontations with your dog that he might win. This can be accomplished by identifying all situations in which your dog is likely to challenge you and avoiding all situations in which aggressive behavior may be evoked.
2. Obedience-train your dog to enhance your control and help you develop appropriate leadership skills. The most important commands your dog should be taught include, SIT, DOWN, STAY, and COME. Train your dog to obey a command before he receives any resource from you, including food, attention, toys, petting, and access to the outdoors. Teaching your dog that “Nothing in Life is Free,” that all gifts great and small must be earned by means of offering an appropriate response to a single-word command, promotes a relationship based on understanding and trust.
In order to accomplish this feat, you must remove all your dog’s valued assets so your dog cannot gain access to them on his own. Highly prized possessions often include delicious food treats, special toys, and comfortable furniture. One of the most valuable and difficult resources for owners to control is the attention they give to their dog. Keep in mind that social interaction is a very potent reward to your dog, so it is particularly important that you ignore any desire for affection from your dog. All attention must be earned by having your dog follow a command issued by you, responding in a deferent and respectful manner.

Do not discipline your dog with harsh training techniques. Physically correcting your dog inevitably will promote an escalation of aggression, resulting in further deterioration of your relationship with your dog. If your dog is misbehaving, distract him with an obedience command and reward him for a compliant response.

Reward your dog for obedient and subordinate behaviors. It is helpful to focus on teaching your dog what he should not do. Rather you should show your leadership by teaching and rewarding appropriate behavior, and ignoring him, if possible, when he misbehaves.

Hope that helps
Lel
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 28.08.03 13:14 UTC
That reassures me, anyway Lel! I sometimes wonder whether my gut feeling causes me to talk out of my backside, but clearly in this case I wasn't. Hurrah!
:)
- By corso girl [gb] Date 28.08.03 13:41 UTC
Hi what is your age David .
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 14:03 UTC
Hi,

I am 24 Years Old
- By Lindsay Date 28.08.03 15:36 UTC
HI David

You say that your dog greets you joyfully and that indicates a good relationship generally.

Many dogs will guard a "resource", which may be a den, a toy, a bowl, or even the owner :eek: It is not at all impossible to train a dog out of this, but the problem is, knowing how to do it!

I would agree the dog needs a vet check - dogs can be aggressive because of a variety of medical conditions, so if it were me, I would feel safer it this were done, then medical problems can be discounted and you can concentrate on training the correct behaviour. Get the vet to take blood tests not just a cursory glance ;)

I would also highly recommend Jean Donaldson's book (It's "Dogs are from Neptune"). It will really help you understand why dogs may aggress over resources and how to start retraining. If i had to follow a book as there was no trainer, this is the one i would choose.

If for example a dog growls as he is guarding a chair, you can say "Off" (not down) and use a long lead to calmly pull him off. You can then reward him for getting off with praise and a toy or food reward. The reward must be special such as liver or similar, not boring. After some tiime the dog will realise he has to obey,and starts to do it willingly for the reward.It is crucial the reward is important to him. He then gets into the habit of obeying and after a while will obey at the command, when you can start to reward with food intermittently or give a game instead or whatever he likes.

That's just a very brief general outline, it's much better if a trainer can help and assess you both and the family, and be on the spot.If you have to do it yourself, thought, this is probably the sort of thing you will be doing. The "nothiing in life is free" programme mentioned above is good too.

HOwever, i notice you say he aggresses at other times but don't specify those, so much may depend on what happens these other times too :)

Good luck
- By willowfarm [gb] Date 28.08.03 18:57 UTC
Thre is some good advice here, but I strongly recommend you visit a behaviourist for advice. They may come to your home to see the behaviour your descibe to get a better understanding. As professionals they are best placed to assess the situation and behaviour. Any good training school should be able to put you in touch with someone in your area - otherwise contact the local dog warden for a contact. Books are great to understand more about the problem , but a behaviourist will give you that vital assessment and support.

Above all don't let it go -you have good reason to be worried if the attacks are getting more aggressive or targeted on you. Do something before it is too late, otherwise you will lose the bond with your dog.

Hope it goes well.

Nikki
- By Brainless [gb] Date 29.08.03 07:59 UTC
David lives in Malta so good behaviourists or training may be harder to find due to being on an Island.
- By Davidbdp [mt] Date 28.08.03 23:52 UTC
I will order a couple of books and hope for the best - he got aggressive again a couple of hours ago because I raised my voice during an argument (about him incidentally) with my Mum. Luckily he did not attack, only Barked.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 29.08.03 06:28 UTC
Does it seem to be when you , in his eyes, "challenge" your Mum? Could he be defending her? Or is it at other times as well?
- By Darling [us] Date 29.08.03 06:29 UTC
Hello there. I have recently experienced some tough times with our dog, but she is just a pup. I am reading through the many responses to your posting. I know there are many great books out there, and I have some of them. And they were helpful, but I really needed a dog obedience trainer to help me. I needed an outsider to look at our situation. And, honestly our trainer's recommendations back fired. I told our trainer that it was not working, and we re-evalutated. Our second plan has really worked and helped to turn around our pup. Our pup was nipping at us constantly,jumping, and growling... and for what seemed no reason. At times, deep scratching from those puppy teeth.

I had to think about everything I did in terms of a dog pack, and how does this dog see dominance. The posted responses on feeding and take the bowl up after 15 minutes is right on. But, we would make the pup sit and while we ate dinner, cleared the table and then feed the pup. In a pack, the dominate dog eats first. This has been tough to teach but it has sooooo helped. With the obedience thing, we hold the dog dish up high and instruct her to sit, then stay, then set the dish down. Then we tell her to "eat". If she does not follow, then we raise the dish up again. They get right into this!

But, when the dog would get aggressive or try to show dominance...whenever we were around the dog we used a slip collar and we always kept a lead on her. People say get control of the dog...yes...OK...how? ya got this jumping, fast as lightning dog coming at you.... I felt while trying to get control of her I was creating a challenge versus showing my dominance. I was reaching to get her collar which is right next to those needle teeth....Anyway, by keeping the lead on her in my company, I could reach away from her and get the lead to give her a correction. I have had a trainer coaching me and my family to do the lead correction properly.

We also show dominance by making the pup sit/stay while the people exit through doors and only then the dog.

What a turn around! It has truly saved my relationship with the pup.

THINK LIKE A DOG PACK. DOGS VIEW THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY.
- By pynadeth [gb] Date 29.08.03 09:43 UTC
hello david
i have dealt with some really dominant dogs and i mean really dominant dogs like bandogs pits presa american bulls.
it looks like your having your alpha status being challenged.and to tell you the truth if you dont know what you are doing you will be reinforcing your dogs thinking he is the alpha of the house.
reading will only help to a certain extent,you need to take him to a behaviour specialist who knows what they are doing.
you dont want a dangerous dog on your hands and if he drew blood thats even worse.
- By Lindsay Date 29.08.03 12:43 UTC
Re the thinking like a pack:

the dominant wolf does not always eat first. Studies on wild wolves which are up to date show that in hungry times, wolves will hold back and let the youngsters feed FIRST :eek: - due to their instinct to let their genes have a chance of continuing.

Previous studies were done on domesticated wolves which had been manipulated by people because they were wolves NOT from the same pack brought together, so therefore would have behaved, and indeed did behave, VERY differently.

Take a look at www.dog-dominance.co.uk, or do a search for David Mech's wolf research, or read the Coppinger's "Dogs: a Startling New Understanding ....." which all refer to up to date behavioural work.

Lindsay
- By dog behaviour [gb] Date 30.08.03 09:54 UTC
Hi David

If your dog sees itself as the leader in your pack and you as challenging its position then each confrontation is likely to result in a display of aggression or actual aggression because in the dogs eyes you have no right to challenge its position.

It seems from your first posting that your dog has a lot of freedom around the house and sleeps wherever it wants. Can you curtail this? Your dog should sleep in his own bed, which you should be able to freely approach and maybe have the odd 'special' spot elsewhere. The dog should see that you own everything and what he gets is what you allow him to have. I feel that you need to turn the relationship around with your dog so that he sees you as the leader which is not about dominance and submission but about good manners and respect.

For the time being try to ensure your dog does not get possession of places he likes to guard and if he does entice him out/off with a treat held a few inches away. When he does what you ask and comes out/off command him to 'sit' or 'down' and only then give the reward. The reward is given for doing what you've commanded and not as a 'bribe'.

To get him to see you as the leader not him, try working on a 'nothing in life is for free' program. He wants a walk - make him sit quietly to have his lead on. He wants to go out - make him sit and wait at the door and only go through when you tell him to. He wants to play - do it when its convenient to you and not when he brings his ball. Make your dog work for everything he wants and gets and make sure that any decisions are made by you and your dog abides by your rules.

If your dog sees you as the leader he will respect that you have the privileges, he has to earn them and that he has no right to challenge your position. It may take some time but if you are consistent with your approach and avoid confrontations you should be able to change how your dog sees his world.
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Help me save my aggressive Dog

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