...give one of those spray collars a go.

Willis is becoming increasingly difficult, and as much as I love him, the trail of destruction is getting worse.
I have a couple of major things I need to sort - would a spray collar work on any of these at all? (assume that I will be taking instruction on how to use it properly etc):

1. He is a compulsive chewer. He chewed through my hairdryer cord today giving himself a shock and could easily have burned the house down, had I not heard the buzzing and seen the sparks. He destoys anything in his path and everything I own has teethmarks.
2. He goes bananas when I go out to do the horses, jumping on window sills, trying to open the front door - he has to be put out of sight in the garden. He got out once and got kicked by one of the horses - has it stopped him? No. He was also chased across the field by them. Same old story.
3. He has a taste for plaster and wood, and will bite at the walls if I am out doing the horses - causing a lot of damage.
4. He has taken a dislike for other dogs now, and lunges badly at them - I can barely hold him.

Overall, he is a very happy dog, but he has a compulsive disorder I am sure! He is walked daily, and is super fit, and I have never seen a dog run like him, especially not a dane.

Any initial thoughts?

C

any intial thoughts...........

hmmmmm

only that I'm glad I've only got a miniture version

sorry thats not much help

Am sure you'll get things sorted when someone sensible answer your post

Good Luck

Rach

:D :D @ Rach

Loved the post about the kittens "I gave him a fiver and I shut the door". Pure class. You wait till Darcy comes home though - it will be like one of those cartoon scenes where there's a big cloud of dust and the occasional paw or tail pops out :D D

oh dont joke about it pleease!!

Thats exactly how I've imagined it.

Chevy is such a little hard nut she'll take Darcy on no trouble

Anyway dont want to hijack a serious post so will let you know how it goes

Good Luck again

Ok I am not a behaviourist - however the symptoms seem (IMHO) to point to the fact that he is above you in the pecking order and gets stressed when you are out of his sight as he cannot control the situation. Can you not revert to normal training methods i.e. Shut him in a room for random times and come back in again and ignore him until he calms down - heard it called the Five Minute rule i.e. ignore a dog until they have been calm for 5 mins (after time it gets to a lot less than this) then he will learn that it is not his responsibility to look after you but for you to look after him and he will be much happier.

Just a thought and I am sure more knowledgeable people will be along shortly

I don't think he thinks he is above me in the pecking order as we don't get any other signs of dominance or aggression - but, I agree he either thinks he can't control the situation, or he's frightened of missing out on something. The 5 minute rule sounds interesting... I could give it a go...the problem is he knows how to get my attention. He whacks me with his paw or goes under my legs and lifts me off the floor!

He is one smart dane - for example, he loves drinking out of the tap in the downstairs loo as its the right height for him, so I have given him his own towel and trained him to wipe his face on it afterwards! Which is a serious achievement for a dane...I keep thinking that perhaps I have over developed his brain?!

Rach - got a crate - he grew out of it...he couldn't even stand up in the biggest I could find. He's 34 inches at the shoulder and stilll growing.

My friend had a huge male rescued Dane who unfortunately had to be PTS due to heart problems and have since acquired a smaller rescue Dane bitch. They were (are) both young dogs and would swat with their paws to gain attention, or stand in your path and gently push you against an obstacle. They did this very gently though...there was absoloutely no agression or dominance involved....just a "come and play with me" tactic. It must be a Dane trait (sorry..this doesn't help you much...couldn't help comparing notes).

it is a dane trait - you are absolutely right. its always nice to hear of other dane owners who have the same issues!

Just a suggestion but what about a Crate then at least he cannot kill himself by chewing though wires?
Failing that pray he grows out of it!

my dog used to be the same until we introduced another dog as a friend i found it was my fault the way i mothered him now things are peacefull good luck

Ah - I already have 2 danes.... so he has another friend...but even she can't distract him when he goes off on one :rolleyes:

My memory has gone regarding his age, so forgive me, but a spray collar won't really work as he seems to destroy when you aren't there? I wonder in fact if he either has teeth problems, (just a thought) or is he also suffering from separation anxiety? If he has a tendency towards this (and i know Danes do bond very close to their owners) you will need to find out more and to work it through, with training. Again, if he does have this, a spray collar would be very unfair as you would need to give him confidence to be "home alone" or even with other dogs. He may just miss you, even if other dogs are present.

Are you ensuring he is not allowed to "get" things to chew - for example i use a system of child gates to prevent the wrong sort of chewing, and can therefore put my dog in a room which is nottempting (when she was a pup anyway.)

You could also try really getting him into chews, Kongs etc - maybe make him work for his dinner by stuffing a Kong with it, and givingit to him when you are out.

If it is separation anxiety, the targets may often be doors, windows, your clothes, and it usually occurs within the first 15 minutes or less of you leaving.

Hope that helps a bit

Lindsay

Edited to add: if he reallu is super fit, that may be part of the problem. He may need more mental workouts and less physical.

Hi

Thanks for that.

He's a year old.

He doesn't do it when we are out - he just goes to bed - no problems...its when I am in, working, or, like this morning I had gone back to bed after taking the other half to the airport in the middle of the night. I took Will up to be with me and when I was asleep he got up and had a go at the hair dryer... its almost like attention seeking? Does that make sense? As for doing the horses, he can see me walk to the field and he goes mad...trying to open the door, jumping around and will then go and pick a wall to chew.

I just don't know how to deal with it, he's had kongs, chews (got plenty) toys, has a girlfriend, is walked every day... he just seems so closely bonded to me...

HELP!!! :)

C

Oh I wish I could! He just seems to want your attention when youre in the house, eh? Is he the youngest Dane ? Definitely a case for an expert. Poor willis, poor you - does he do tracking or anything when hes out to work the grey cells? Theres a section in Perfect Puppy about accustoming a dog to sitting at peace while you get on with things but Im not sure Id like to try holding the leash of an anxious Great Dane while reading a book. These things shall pass. :)

Oh Chloe, poor you.

Bearing in mind his age I think he is having a teenage tantrum, how dare you go out somewhere exciting (to him) without me..... The fact that he settles at bedtime and other occasions when he can't see you, points in this direction. I would go with the previous post of the 'five minute rule', the important thing is not to make a fuss of him on your return, or indeed any return even if he has been good. Completely ignore him (know that's difficult with 34 inches of Dane) just go on about your business in the house as normal. Try not to be too friendly with him all the time, especially when he is demanding attention, while he is going through this phase at least.

I have never used a spray collar, but I wouldn't think it would be much help as you need to spray as he is about to do something wrong, so need to be there to see it.

Good Luck,

Sandra

id buy a strong cage--and even when your at home give him time away from you in it,.--forget taking him upstairs with you, the dog thinks its his right to go everywhere with you, --he needs to know when you want him away, that he has to go, !!!!!! hes becoming too attatched to you----------cages are wonderful inventions-they stop all manner of sillinesses before they get a chance to start-good luck

i've got a cage, but he doesn't fit in it... he can just about get in but he freaks because he can't stand up and it would be cruel to put him in there for any length of time... when he did fit in it, it was heaven! its the biggest one i could find...

he can jump a stair gate, or pull it off the wall unless bolted in - and then he just bites the wall around it....or digs the carpet up!

i know I have loved him up too much, but i can't help it!!

i'm going to try the 5 minute thing, and try to calm things down...

thanks all - you are all right, he is too attached to me.

sorry, hes freaking cos hes now attatched to you---most dogs used to a cage lie down in them-you dont see them stood up in them , and if you really think thats the prob then buy a bigger cage, --most of the poodle [standard] ones would be big enough for him,--you have to get him peeled off you, or your in for a load of problems :(

A standard poodle size??! Hardly - a standard poodle is 15inches at the shoulder - willis is 34inches. Ask Grace - she knows Willis well.

He can't even get in the door of my crate without crawling and I have the biggest crate you can get - believe me. I wouldn't be on here asking if I hadn't tried the obvious. He is a big great dane...I tried to get him to rely on me because I didn't want an independent big dog who would run off on walks, but I have swung the balance too far.

A 15 inches Standard poodle would be a very small one

I have a friend who has danes & has crates for the house is she has a bitch in season(the dogs go in it not the bitches)

It was custom made for her deom weld mesh

If we are going to split hairs - I took the size from here:

Kennel Club

I have a crate, when I could put him in there it solved the problem a little, but he is simply too big to go in the one I have now - don't you think I wouldn't put him in if not??!

I'll look into getting a custom made one - thats a good idea.

I need some advice on how to reduce his reliance on me, and calm him down. I can't crate him for ten hours a day.

it says for the standards [over 15 inches] -i no you cant cage him 10 hours a day, but by getting him used to being away from you in small doses, he should learn to live without you a touch, therefore coping better when left alone, im so sorry my suggestions seem to of upset you, --it wont happen again.

dizzy - i was replying to moonmaiden. you're replies haven't upset me....i value the advice, I am just saying that the crate is not working at the moment.

He is away from me a good three hours a day usually, when I am shopping, or out with the horses, and 99% of the time there is no damage - but I do work from home and then he's generally with me in the study (and thats when he will wander off and lie in the hall and chew the wall idly).

Primarily, I just need a way of stopping him going bananas when I go out to the horses - because I don't actually think its me he wants to get to, its them. The chewing seems to be a habit :(

if you can. mail me privately. your address is hidden,

standard poodles are a lot bigger than pei----pei are between 18-20 inches at the shoulder, i have a poodle cage in my kitchen which is really big,--- and tall, -the idea is your dog would have to lie down and be calm, im sure youd be able to buy even taller ones if needed, !!!!! anyhow, good luck , i hope you get something sorted out,

thanks dizzy. if you know of any made to measure crate companies then please let me know :)

If you can't find a cage to fit, would'nt it be possible to put a kennel and small run in the garden and get him used to this for short periods each day.

I've nothing useful to suggest Chloe - just wanted to say I feel your pain (to a much smaller, Dobermann sized degree). You can always tell where Cam is in the house because human voices can be heard saying "Aghh! No!! That cost £85 and I've only had it for two weeks!!".

I hope you find a solution. Good luck.

Jo

It sounds like he's going through a phase :)
I'm sorry but your Dane needs to learn that he can't just wallop you with a paw or lift you off the ground if he wants your attention , this does sound like dominance to me, not dominance agression but the beginning of dominance. He needs to learn that you are in charge and there's no need to freak if you leave the house for something. He also needs to learn that there are things he is allowed to chew and everything else is taboo. This will take a lot of supervision and if you can't supervise him then he must be left where he cannot do any damage (to himself either) otherwise the chewing could build up into an expensive habit. You may need to go right back to basics with him and try leaving him for no more than a minute or so at first and then build up at a pace that doesn't stress him.

For what its worth I've found that the harder you have to work at training a dog the better he "gets it" in the end and less likelyhood of forgetting it too :)

Regards
Dill

Sorry Chloe, I've only just got to this. :o
It sounds like Willis is becoming a proper teeneger! He's clearly very attached to you and likes to be able to get to you if he wants - being unable to (especially when you're doing something fun) is driving him potty. Obviously he can't go in the crate - if he can't stand up in it, it would be cruel to cram him in :rolleyes: so something else is called for.

I don't think a spray collar would do any good really, not for this sort of thing. I would guess (and it is only a guess) that you are going to have to get him used to being away from you more - not easy when you're at home all the time. I know how easy it is for the bond to get incredibly strong.

Although he's a big chap he is only a baby still - it's just him being so big makes the damage so uch greater. I'll go away and ponder on this and see if I can come up with anything. In the meantime - chin up!

i am not sure if you have tried this already, but you mentioned earlier that you think you have babied him a bit....now he is getting demanding. if he trashes things while you are out of the room, but in the house, he thinks you are ignoring him. when you find destroyed things how do you react? do you yell and give him attention?
I would suggest ignoring him whilst you are in the room with him. if he gets pushy, ignore him completely, and move away if necessary. totally turn your back, and no eye contact at all. dont scold him, cos that is attention. he must learn that you give him attention on YOUR terms only. start with short bursts of leaving the room, 10 or 20 seconds if needed, go in and out frequently, and do not speak to him or give eye contact. this is a dog listener technique, and although i don't follow her slavishly, this worked really fast for a previous affie I had. had cracked the problem in just a few days! good luck!

JG & PL - this is exactly what I was after :)

JG - you are right, he is still a baby, and, after all, you are aware moreso of the problems I've had, and you are right. Danes are very different from other dogs, they are sensitive animals and easily upset.

PL - that sounds like really constructive advice...I DO need to learn to ignore him more and allow him contact on my terms. Thank you

Edit to say: He's upstairs at the moment, he often goes up for a few hours at night and goes to bed...so surely it can't be separation anxiety?!

he has gone to bed!!!!! upstairs because he wants to---if you think alls ok-try not being there when he wakes up

Yes, he has a basket upstairs. I have 2 kids and he has a basket up there if I need to put him away from the other dog and the kids for a while. As I said, i frequently go out and leave him in his bed, asleep, and he's still there when I come back or downstairs by the hall.

Chloe, sorry to hear you're having problems. (The 'idly chewing the wall' bit made me laugh though...sorry!!)

I just wanted to agree with pinklillies. I also tried ignoring one of my rescue bitches. She's very attached to me, and was always jumping up etc. It only took a few days of completely ignoring her when I walked in the room she was in, or when I let her out of the kennel. I avoided eye contact with her etc, and she soon stopped all the mad jumping up. She's a Staffie X Collie, and very solid, so it was annoying, and painful at times!

It's definitely worth a try.

Hope all goes well, and you and Willis can sort things out!!

Take care
Lisa

Dog Listener technique ? Pink lilies Sorry it was around well before she came on the scene, but it does work :)

Can't remember who taught me it, but it was a dog trainer in the 60's who had obedience champions & saw I had a problem with a GSD I was training-I think he actually won at Crufts & advised me to stop using the choke chain as well never used one since-unlike the DL who showed her GSDs on chokers at Crufts a few years ago

I agree, it is unlikely to be separation anxiety - I had the impression he got upset and chewed/became destructive when you left, but if he wanders upstairs to bed (ie to be on his own) then that is his choice and he is not worried about you leaving him.

Interestingly, my young Terv would chew when i was in the house but in another room, but NEVER when i was out. (My other bSDs were the other way round )

What i feel you need to do, is get him out of the habit of being destructive. Sounds easy, but you have to be very vigilant and watchful. Yes, there seems to be an element of attention seeking from what you have said,but this is not any form of dominance, just teenage sauciness. You need to get things more on your terms but as i see it, the problem is his "largeness" *chuckle* to an extent.

Hmm - can you get one of your rooms organised so that he can see you, but cannot get to you - and "proof" it. So get rid of ANYTHING he might be tempted by. Spray Bitter Apple or smear Vicks or Clove oil over all woodwork to deter him.

Start putting him in there after a game/walk - if you are lucky he may nap for a bit or be willing to chew a STUFFED kong. Get him an activity ball too, if you dont have one, and rotate all these toys often. Dont leave them out for him to get bored by them.

After a short period, go to him, let him out and have a game or walk round the garden a bit. Ask for a Sit before he comes out, before he goes out into the garden, etc. This basic stuff gets him listening to you and eventually will lead to greater obedience ;)

If he has a tantrum or tries to leap at you, say sharply "ah! too bad" or similar, and leavehim for a miinute or two. If distraction with a fav. toy will work use that, but try to get him to do something for you before he has the toy. Try to make everything on your terms.

He is young and exciteable and is becomong aware he is a big strong boy. YOu will need to take the attitude "Er, excuse me Willis but you will do as i say." Be firm but fair - no shouting, but very calm and like a strong leader.

The purpose of all this is to get him to learn what is appropriate and what is not, what he can chew and what he cannot :) It does work if you are consistent - it did with mine.

YOu do have differeng situations though - re the horses etc, do you know why he gets so agitated. Is it a tantrum,is he excited by seeing the horses race around? If so, put him elsewhere.

Always reward good behaviour - so for example, if he is quiet and good for just 10 minutes, praise him verballly and maybe let him out or give him a food reward/stuffed kong etc.

Just some ideas, hope i have put across what i am trying to say ..... !!!

Have fun :)

Lindsay

Lindsay - thats brilliant....thats exactly what I feel he's trying to do, I shall implementt this stuff straight away. I do feel he is in the habit of chewing stuff... I've bought some anti crib bite spray and I am going to dog proof one room with it... the problem is that here every room has a window at the front, except the kitchen...and that doesn't have a door! So, I will have to put him in the garden...I am getting a secure run built this week too.

With regards to the horses, he just wants to play... they come round to the bottom of the garden and he jumps up the fence and they sniff him back and he licks their necks, there's no aggression there, for either of them...BUT, if he sees me bring them out of the field then he wants to be outside aswell... same as if I take my other dog out (she's horse proof) - he has a tantrum. The last time I was leading one of them across and he got out and ran at her, she ran round me in a circle trying to get away with him in pursuit and she kicked him...she doesn't have shoes on, so there was no damage, plus it wasn't a proper kick....but he did sit on his bum for ten minutes and wonder what the hell it was.

He also got into the field once and was chased back out by them at speed... frightened him half to death...but he just doesn't learn. :rolleyes:

What I found helped me in a lot of ways with Harry and Piglet was to do lots of "sits" in all sorts of places. It seemed to break their train of 'thought' (I use the word thought in its loosest sense ;) ) and brought them back to my planet, and they started to take a bit more heed of me. When Piglet (in particular) stiffens when he sees a dog I get him to sit, and when he looks at me rather than the dog he gets a bit of cheese. It has certainly made him more controllable when out, so it might help with Willis lunging at other dogs. Hope so, anyway, and won't do any harm.
:)

Poor old Willis. He is suffering at the moment. We had a similar problem with MB but not as bad. She is a lot better now as she has a much more close bond to Moose now rather than me or Mike. Moose was going through one of her Phantoms and so she was ignoring MB alot. MB was attention chewing and was destroying anything that was not nailed down. Moose snapped out of it and they are both loved up again and MB has settled down again. It is stages I think they all go through, part of growing up :)

Do hope you get Willis through his probelm soon ! I am sure he will settle down with all the tips you have been given.

Lucy
xx

Chloe

I bow to Lindsay on the behavioural solutions! But for what it's worth on the collar - save your money. I tried the spray collar [odourless] on Lascaux and it hasn't solved his train chasing so I have gone back to determined human training. The collar worked the first time - I used it as he was about to go for the train, and he stopped in his tracks, came back, was praised etc. The next few times, he was startled but it was not a hindrance to him as the noise of the train makes it irresistible [and makes it impossible for the noise element of the collar to work].

Lascaux probably comes up to Willis's ankles - so if the collar can't stop an excited corgi, it won't stop Willis and be even less effective once he is aroused, leaping around, horses in view etc.
We haven't used the collar for anything else but do count blessings that we don't have a pushy dog. We have found that other undesired behaviour in the house [namely the incessant barking at passing invisible dogs] is solved immediately by instant exclusion from the room for a few minutes.
regards
Cissy

To be honest, it's hard to give solid advice over this sort of thing, as so much depends on the relationship between dog and owner, not to mention the impact of the environment, and even then there is so much fine tuning to be done as each discovers which buttons to press when :D and so on.

I have had lots of success being "firm but fair", using the clicker, using time outs, etc etc. and when real adolescence hits, the implementation of a vague sort of "nothing in life is free" programme helped enormously. I dont do it strictly, just where i feel it will be of use. I also reward lots and lots for a dog just being calm and quiet. We so often forget to praise thedog when he or she is being no bother.

I hope you have success Chloe, remember your special boy is probably at his most annoying at the moment LOL :)

Good luck
Lindsay
X

Have you thought of giving flower essences a try or a homoeopathic remedy after consultation with a qualified practitioner? The dog I rehomed last year has been transformed by the administration of 3 x hom tablets. If anyone would have said that this would have happened I would have laughed in their face. He has the canine equivalent of ADHD and while he is never going to be a mogadon dog he is now in a position to learn. Behavioural modification techniques alone are sometime insufficient if the dog is not in mental state to take in such learning.

Just a thought.

Allyson