Sorry if I have put any potential exhibitors off - I was letting off steam and perhaps should not have posted on this thread. But I went into dog showing very naive after years of showing horses/ponies and thought I was "ready" for it. I have to say that on the whole I have thoroughly enjoyed myself - win or lose, had some great days out even when I was thrown out with the rubbish, and after all no-one forces you into the ring!!

But I think its fair to prepare new exhibitors for the "worst scenario" then they will go into it with their eyes open and not with tinted specs like i did, and then hit the ground with a bump, when worms turned. Its a bit like relationships - if "one thing ;-)" is going well you dont even think about it much, when its going wrong - its everything. Its only a tiny percentage of people who try to spoil it for others but they loom large when its happening, and if you let it it can grow out of all proportion, which is what has happened to me.

Think the main trouble is that Dog Shows are populated with people, as are Dog Information Exchange Boards, and we all know what that means ;)

In any competitive pastime you will find bad sports. The best thing is to ignore the bad, and enjoy the good.

sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but there really are more people who show for enjoyment than the ones who have to win.

After all the must win ones are not going to bew happy a lot of the time in their hobby, as the law of averages dictates that they must loose.

The rest of us who enjoy our shoing and our dogs no matter the result, alwys have fun.

Every once in a while one is disappointed a little if ones dog is on top form and is beaten by a lesser animal, but then another time you may win when really another deserved it better.

I don't really think you are supposed to speak in the ring and you definitely aren't allowed to speak to someone outside the ring whilst you are in it. I don't think anyone was being funny it's just that as the other poster put you like to concentrate when you are in the ring.

There are no rules about speaking to other exhibitors or spectators while in the ring

You are not allowed to"engage"the judge in conversation unless the judge speaks to you first

;)

Yes you can chat, but some people would rather not, if their dog is a bit of a handful like mine you dare not relax too much. People outside the ring are not supposed to attract the dog whilst they are being assessed but they can talk to you or the dog when you are waiting your turn.

Having a slobbery breed you do find that while you are waiting to go into the ring other people will let there dogs slobber all over your dog and then when you go in the ring their dog is clean , and yours in soggy!!
In my breed there are some really nice people especially the people at the top, they are helpful and chatty and will always willing to give the beginners tips ,i find it's the people that want to be at the top and they don't care who they offend to get there, even though they have only been in the breed 5 mins.
They think that they know it all and nothing is going to stop them.
Chatting to judges left right and centre , getting to know the top people and bugging them all the time and then making out that they know them really well, so that they are seen with the right people, breeding litters in there first year of ownership to the lastest champion etc.
I think that most breeds have people like that or is it just mine?

Peanuts

Peanuts - that's shocking! People can be SO evil & sneakily horrid. I have to say as a newcomer, there are far too many rules and regulations to remember - it's absolutely mind boggling.

Hugo did well today, not certain whether it was down to the rescue remedy though! But when he keeled over and went to sleep after half an hour we made a mental note not to give him quite so much next time! :D

But they both did well today and got placed. Hugo was beaten by a superb bitch who got Best in Group too. Sought the lady out to congratulate her afterwards & she was very friendly, helpful and even offered to help stack Hugo at our next show in Salisbury. Now THAT is the best side of showing s I hope those that were put off before reconsider!

Lady G

Well done to you and the boys.

Congrats LadyG :) :D

Look in this weeks Dog World,Golden Retriever Breed Notes Page 25 2nd
column and What Pat Trotter writes.

Briony

Hi,

Look at this weeks Dogworld page 25 column 2 what Pat Trotter writes
in Golden Retriever Breed notes.

Briony

SoRRY,

Just seen my above post did come up!

Briony

i am new to the world of show dogs and i have often heard of nasty people trying to 'put newcomers off the scent'. Lets face it, the less newcomers there are, the more higher placings are there for the regulars.You often hear of the Kennel Club wanting to encourage newcomers to the world of showing their pet, but when you hear of stories like this it doesn't surprise me that we are put off. I feel it is the same with breed clubs also. They don't want the breed to be 'ruined' by non-members,but they dont' encourage new members easily. It's a bit like the 'Freemasons'. 'It's not what you know but who you know'! I know it may sound a bit 'raw' but you can feel like you are on the outside looking in.

The problem the Breed Clubs have is that, if membership is available on a "send in your fiver and you're a member" basis, all the puppy farmers will join and say "Look, I'm a respectable breeder, I'm in the Breed Club". So you have to prove your worth first. If you're serious about your breed it isn't difficult.
:)

hi jeanjenie: I understand your point fully about 'puppy farmers' etc but what if you only agreed to a certain amount of litters per year, say two, this would surely screen out these wicked people. I love my dogs dearly, I dont' want to do anything that would endanger the breed, but I feel newcomers would benefit enoumously to the showing and breeding of dogs from the seasond professionals. I am still looking forward to showing my dogs and just enjoy it as a passtime. Other people known to me have warned me that showing your dog can be a bit daunting and dissappointing but i dont' expect to have the next champion in my livingroom, i think some people may expect this.

Unfortunately people tell lies about their activities. :(
As nobody visits to check that people are telling the truth on applications, you have to rely on the people being known. If you have been seen regularly at the shows and seminars etc for a year or so, and make yourself known to people, and ask questions, and so prove your genuine interest, you'll be elcomed with open arms.

To Jeanjenie:yes i accept your reply that people do tell lies, point taken. Maybe it is best left as it is then. Il'l do as you advised then maybe, hopefully people will see me as well intentioned in the flesh, afterall it is the dogs which are primary concern. As for showing my dogs, I am determined to 'have a go' & some fun. My pup seems to be enjoying Ringcraft so far, she knows where she is going, to a fun place with lots of other happy dogs. As to my other questions I guess I will discover the answer to these as time goes on. As to the question of shows being a bit nasty, i think maybe the key is not become obsessed, as some people seem to be and take for what it is, a doggy hobby! Thank you for your advice!

Sorry Cookie, it is not a bit like that, well not in my experience it isn't. Most clubs are looking for members and will welcome you if you are a genuine lover of the breed and most exhibitors welcome newcomers, how else will the breed continue without new people,

Remember in my own breed a few years back there was a good deal of worry because most of the old school of breeders were retiring and there did not seem to be new people coming on, that has now been rectified and I am sure most breeds feel the same as ours.

Don't forget breeders and exhibitors are people and as such they come in much the same proportions as they do in any other group.

I have also read that breed clubs may have difficulty in surviving in the future if they do not give warmer welcomes to potential new members. Especially as life is becoming more busy and there are more hobbies and pastimes for people to enjoy.I have also read 'cat ownership' has risen rather alot. A sign of the times perhaps!

Cookie you have heard a lot of things, can you let us know your source please, they seem to know a lot of things I have not heard of.

Hi...

With my first ever show in a couple of months I have to admit to some 2nd thoughts entering as I have read different forums, not least this one ;/.

Other exhibitors being nasty, judges and 'faces' [took me a while but worked out what faces were] - you don't have to go far on this forum to read about triumph and good experiences, then often in the same thread a downside produced by what i can only think of as 'bad sports' - not posters but someones actions/comments at a show. You may call them unfulfilled, jealous and spiteful people with a personality defect but I couldn't possibly say that ;).

What I am an expert on is someone that is keen to give it a go... someone that has never done it and who has searched for as much info and help as they can to try and look as small an idot as poss... Reading the posts here and elsewhere, it's clear to me that the vast majortity of posters who are experienced showers all support that the 'nasties' are a small minority. Have to say that if I came skimming posts I could easily drop into some that gave the other side and miss the majority talking about the upside.. just a request from my expert newbie view that something positive is always said to reduce some butterflies those like me get ;).

I really hope that all those supporting the 'good' side practise what they preach... remember even a part comment can be hurtful overheard out of context... I have had a lot of help from this forum, and been encouraged by reading lots of threads to give it a go.

The light side... a couple of days ago I sent for a champ show schedule, for my first show - if I had any worries about sportsmanship prior to this they have gone... heres an extract of the reply I got...

>>>

Dear Dave,

Many thanks for address. Will be sending the schedules out in the next few days. It's so nice to hear of someone new to the breed (or new to showing, at least). Please let me know if you have any questions, either about the breed or about exhibiting, and I'll be pleased to help. Have you been able to get to any ringcraft classes? It's always exciting when you have a new pup in the show ring and I'll look forward to seeing him/her. You can be sure of a warm welcome at the show.

If you want to ring me, my tel. no. is xxxxx

<<<<<

If that doesn't sum up what I was hoping showing would be about, then I dont know what would. I have obviously removed any reference to the show itself or breed, it is a champ show though and a breed one.

Come on newbies lets go and have some fun... I dont want to be the only one scared as hell out there ;D

Regards Dave

Hi Dave
That's exactly the same welcome I got from my breed club and other people within my breed, ( the same breed as the original poster )and I haven't even got a dog in the ring. I initially introduced myself via email, and now you can guarantee I speak to at least one person a week on the phone. I have a 4yr old and they are trying to get me in the ring with her, though I'm too much of a scaredy cat lol:D A 4yr old who won't stand for anything she thinks sitting is best lol.

Anyway good luck to all newbies, and tell the baddies to run and jump!!

Alison

Hey Alison you can't be any more a scaredey cat than me ;P. Give it a try... remember I need more scaredey cats to make me feel better ;))

If your dog wont perform maybe one of your breed friends would give it a go for you to get started? Don't know if thats the done thing but maybe an idea ;). With you on the baddies !

Regards Dave

Hi Dave
I went to Leeds champ show the other week, and the people round the ring side were really friendly and welcoming. It was the first time I had met in person. Spoke to most on the phone, so felt I'd known for ages. Anyway it was pointed out to me by my friend who I was with that had I entered her she would have qualified for crufts. Cos there was only one bitch in the class ;) Just think If I had, I'd have six months for ringcraft LOL :D

Alison

Hi Alison ;)

Sheesh just think CRUFTS - now that WOULD be something. Give it a go, I keep telling myself that they will be looking at my dog not me... its the fear of looking stupid, but am sure that thought doesn't cross the dogs mind. I keep telling myself that everyone had to start sometime, and anything I do wrong will have been done before... whatever the experts round the ring say behind their hands... they weren't always experts were they?

My first show isn't until November so plenty of time for me to worry about it heh. The breeder says she is going to come and show at least one of my dogs sisters so at least I will have some support ;).

If you do take the plunge PLEASE let me know all about it. What breed do you have by the way? I have a Cairn and he is umm very Cairn... other Cairn owners will know exactly what I mean ;D

Regards Dave

Regards Dave

Cookie have you actually applied to join your breed club, spoken to the secretary for instance, or are you just going by hearsay? I had no trouble at all joining breed clubs for my two breeds, the first I was introduced by my pup's breeder the second I went to a few shows and soon got to know a few folk who could see I was ernest about the breed and it was no problem finding two proposers.

All the clubs I know welcome you with open arms, but they do like at least one person who is already a member to have met you, which is why it is best to ask your dogs breeder first. If they are not a member you could ask the secretary for the number of a member near you. The reason they wish a little knowledge of you is because it would be foolish to take someone unsuitable and then have to eject them 6 months later.

So folks if you want to get into your breed club or be known and welcome around the show ring all you need to do is say Hi to a few people and make yourself know. E-mail is a good idea, everyone likes to talk about their chosen breed(s) so give that a try and please do not be so negative.

To those of you who are starting out, wishing you a long and happy showing hobby, have fun, don't get to serious about it and remember what ever the judge thinks, you know your dog is the very best. Good luck and love it.

Faces, has anyone noticed how the 'faces' always seem to have the best dogs. ;)

OK it does happen but not as often as people would have you believe, it is a thing said by people who think that their dog is better than it is. People forget that each judge is different and although some will always put up the best winning dog others have a determination to do their own thing (I am one of those) and will sometime go against the flow, not because they like being different but because that is the way they see it.

When you have been showing for a few years and may be ventured into a bit of breeding and done some studying of your breed, you start to take a look at the dogs you own/breed and you start to see the faults and then you understand that most judges are honest and it becomes possible to see why you were beaten by a particular dog even if you personally do not like it.

Don’t be put off but those who moan, don’t start showing to win, understand that even if your dog has quality, it is unlikely, you as a novice, will be able to show the dog well enough to show the quality off. But sometimes you will go under a judge who sees past the handling and will award your dog, novices do win sometimes and there is nothing that gives the old hands more pleasure than to watch them burst into tears in the middle of the ring. :D

Sometimes the faces do have the best dogs but I have seen dogs owned by faces that had they been owned by you or I would have been lucky to scrape a VHC, yet they win because of the 2 legged end.

<<<<But sometimes you will go under a judge who sees past the handling and will award your dog, novices do win sometimes and there is nothing that gives the old hands more pleasure than to watch them burst into tears in the middle of the ring. >>>>

No one was more surprised than US when we got a third out of 12 in a champshow by a very respected judge :)
We are COMPLETE novices. Gus is out first dog that we have entered for showing and we dont handle him perfectly . Time will give us the experience.
It can be disheartening at times - you do question yur own dogs capability at times .
We NEVE EXPECT to win . I always regard time in the Ring as valuable experience and nothing more. I dont expect to win after five minutes showing . That is the thing to remember .
The only gripe I would say I have with showing is the five minute showers who expect to win and moan if they dont and think they know everything there is to know. These are the ones that spoil it for me :(

Must say Lel, I agree, we all have the odd moment when we feel (we was robed) but lets face it, is it that important. If you want to show then go and enjoy it, if you think everyone is bent then why the hell are you still doing it. You have to trust most of your fellow exhibitors and the judges. But with judges if you don't like what they do then don't enter under them again. Must say the only judges I would not show under again are the ones who are heavy handed, don't care if they like my dog or not.

??? I never mentioned bent judges or not trusting people ???

Hi, although I suspect in any breed there will be a few "facey" judges, sometimes its just a question of they prefer a different "type" to yours, or are looking for particular attributes that maybe in their opnion the breed as a whole is starting to "fail" in. Although we should all be trying to produce dogs that "fit the breed standard", different people will put their own interpretation on the standard, judges and breeders alike. The best way for a novice to know which judges may like their dogs is to get advice from their dogs breeder as to which shows to attend and which to not bother going to, depending on who is judging. They will be in the best postition to know what that particular judge is looking for.

"??? I never mentioned bent judges or not trusting people ???""

No, I know you didn't Lel, I was agreeing with you and expanding on what you said. ;)