Has any one seen the news this morn 6-30 they say APBT (three of them kept in pen in garden) have savaged young boy that jumped over fence to get football?

Ive just seen the news, that poor little boy looked so traumatised he could barely speak. Apparently the owners have said they wont have the dogs put down, how could people keep dogs like that?

If my dogs did that to a child that came into my garden they'd be at the vets within minutes.

And if a neighbours dogs did that to my child then I'm afraid they wouldn't survive the experience - one way or the other - no matter what the breed was.

I think the owners should be prosecuted - at the end of the day, the dog cant control the owner that it gets, the treatment that the owner gives the dog or the environment that the dog lives. As humans we have the ability to be responsible where the poor dumb dogs dont understand the bigger picture. If an owner has dogs that are vicious then surely its the owner thats irresponsible rather than the dog for doing nothing more than being a dog with a crap owner?

...but then Ive always got on better with animals than humans so I may be biased! :)

I agree...the owners should be held ultimately responsible - its not the dogs fault. But, you cannot take the risk again with dogs that have shown that kind of aggression... I just don't think there is an alternative.

I see what youre saying. I dont know enough about how easy it is to change behaviour like that but I feel heart sorry for some of the dogs that are trained for the forces and then destroyed after their years of service because they have been trained by their handlers to be aggressive...

...thats another topic entirely though!! :)

Before you all have a go at me!!! how do you know what your dogs would do if intruder came into your garden over fence/wall and that is what those dogs saw an intruder i know it was a child and its bxxxxy awful but just think about it,( my dogs are wonderful but if anyone tried to get over my fence i am sure my dogs would do some damage its there garden, i dont know the complete story but it did look like the owner had a nice secure kennel with very good pen, i am not making light of this as it is awful, but just think about it and forget the breed.

I know my dogs wouldn't hurt a child - they might bark at adults, but they love kids. They would never bite a child.

know one knows what there dog would do when someone even a child comes over a wall or fence,your dogs might be wonderful non aggresive but when something like this happens knowbody can say there dogs wouldnt bite or injure someone,i didnt see the news myself but its so terrible what has happened but any breed of dog is capable of doing such a thing.
when i was younger i was walking in a friends house where i used to go regular so her 2 german shepherds knew me well but one day i walked in as usual and one of the dogs jumped me knocked me over a attacked my behind wasnt nice and was very painful so it goes to show you just never know.

er...actually I do!! My dogs don't have it in them to bite.

ANY dog could bite...unless youve had its teeth taken out or its jaw wired shut!! I know IM not meant to bite people but its still an option!! :D

(running away to hide from the angry person now!) :)

how can you guarantee they wont bite,wether to do damage or even playing all dogs can bite?all dogs have it in them.a lot of dogs test bite to learn.just my opinion

I can say that I know my dogs wouldn't bite for the following reasons:

1. They are not trained in an aggressive way
2. They have no need to bite - why would they want to bite a child? They don't have a high pray drive, they don't guard, they are not a guarding breed.
3. No child could get into my garden anyway
4. My dogs have been socialised with children from the age of 6 weeks
5. They are breed that is good with children
6. They live with children

Incidentally - all of my dogs I have ever had have let children into the garden - I used to live in army qtrs where children run wild and WILL get over a fence to get their ball back whatever.

My dogs don't "test bite" or "play bite"...a child could well get licked to death, but thats it.

My point to all this is that if you have a dog then you should ensure that NO-ONE can get into your garden, and if the dogs are aggressive and locked up then THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET OUT (as in this case). A child has been scarred for life because an OWNER could not ensure that they kept their dogs locked away - and that their dogs were (probably) not socialised in the first place - whatever the breed.

If those dogs had done that to MY child, then I would do everything to ensure they were out to sleep - 1. because the owner clearly is not responsible, and 2, because the dogs have that in them in the first place - whatever the breed.

Im sure, if provoked, your dogs would bite. Its part of being a dog. They cant discuss things, hit, ask someone to stop or threaten to call the police so they only have one mechanism - fight or flight. This instinct is inbuilt in most animals and I cant believe your dogs are an exception to the rule.

As for my previous posts, you know Im all for owner responsibility but youre surely not suggesting that all dog owners "should ensure that no one can get into your garden"?? Why should I bomb proof my own garden - if my dog is incapable of getting out then Ive done enough - it is my legal right that other people respect my property and if they break into my garden then THEY are endangering themselves. If it had been a 40 year old man who was about to break into the dog owners house prior to being attacked, you would be commending the dogs for their loyalty - how are the dogs meant to tell the difference?!

i agree with isla
if it was a burgler then people would commend the dogs.however if people like me own the dogs i have then it is still our responsiblity that the dogs should never be able to get out and make sure that people like kids cant get in.if an adult/burgler wants to get in they can get in as adults are,however that is up to them if they want to go against my dogs.as long as i have made sure that it is hard to get in and harder for the dogs to get out.
it is still the guys/owner of the dogs responsibility as well as he should have made it more secure for the kid not to be able to get in.

I didn't say they wouldn't bite if they were provoked! I cannot believe that people are defending dogs that attacked a child on here!

I'll tell you WHY you should ensure children can't get into your garden - because its too late once its happened! No, children should not go into your garden, but they DO. And standing in court saying "he shoudn't have gone after his ball" will not endear you to an already dog-hating/dog intolerant community - thats just naive.

My garden is well protected enough to stop children getting in, but if one did, then my dogs wouldn't do anything - as for the burglar thing, then I agree..yes, it would be a good thing if the dogs kept a burglar out - but mine wouldn't - they'd bark and run off. And on every occasion someone in my village has been burgled their dogs have let them in!! I honestly believe that most dogs would let someone into a back garden without biting - these didn't bite - they attacked as a pack. Big difference.

Unfortunately, not all children are nice innocents! I'm not saying this poor boy is a horrid little vandal and hooligan who has spent all the summer holidays kicking a football against the garden fence and winding the dogs up into a state of hysteria whenever they hear his voice ....... but some other child might have, and this lad has suffered for it.

We shall never know the background to this.

Im honestly not defending dogs that bite - Im disagreeing with your statement that you can promise your dogs would NEVER bite and Im just saying that dog owners shouldnt have to bomb proof their gardens when it is exactly that, THEIR garden. So long as its secure, I think thats enough. I would be irrate if my dog was asleep in the garden, a boy landed next to him scaring him half to death and he bit in what the dog saw as defence and I ended up in court about it. Damn right Id fight to keep my dog! Ive had humans do a LOT worse to me and theyre still walking this earth.

At the end of the day, JG was right - it all depends on the individual case. Ill pack my soapbox away for the day! :)

Isla - we are saying the same thing, but from a different perspective :)

I can guarantee my dogs wouldn't bite because of my circumstances - I have no neighbours anyway - I live in the middle of nowhere..but I still have a garden high enough to keep everything out and my dogs in.. my dogs are not out when I am out and they are used to people coming and going here. I agree, that if your dog was sleeping in the garden and something landed on top of him he would be excused for nipping or lashing out...but thats a big difference from being pinned to a wall and shaken by a number of dogs. Thats all I am saying.

Hoorah!! Its got to that time of day again where without a glass of wine in my hand, Im not quite sure WHAT Im saying!! :D I just hope Im never in the same position as either the boy OR the owner...Im a lover not a fighter!! :)

I'm a passive aggressive ;) :D

Not sure who was having a go or what point youre defending?

Ultimately, no one can ever have complete control of another being - whether its human, dog or hamster - but its the human that makes the decision to take on a dog and so surely its them that should be held responsible if the dog damages property or hurts someone. The same with kids - you cant always control your kids but its the parent that is responsible until the time the kid is an adult...except dogs are never independent so the owner stays responsible.

Im sure Ill be shot down in flames for this one but the boy perhaps shouldnt have been jumping into strangers gardens - he could have jumped onto machinery that killed him, been kidnapped by the person who owns the house or just broken his leg if he fell...

Isla75 total agree with you in every way its the owners responsiblity.

I can see where you're coming from, Isla. Without knowing all the details (probably known only to the poor boy, who may or may not be an entirely innocent victim) none of us can judge. A territorial dog will defend its boundary. And several dogs will incite each other to go further than they would individually.

What a horrible situation.

No, he shouldn't have been...but perhaps the neighbour had said that he could whenever the dogs were locked away? We don't know... perhaps he didn't realise they were out? Whatever, it must have been terrifying for him - apparently one had his head in its mouth.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one!!! Many people regardless of the breed they own actively encourage their dogs to protect their land, without perhaps realising that their dogs might take it further than they intended. I know my parents encourage their lab to bark whenever someone comes onto their land, whats to stop him deciding to take it to the next level. The fact is the dogs were secure in their garden and the boy jumped over. What on earth were the parents doing letting him jump over the wall into someone elses garden, especailly seen as they must have known the garden had dogs in it.

Its a horrible situation and unfortunately the picture of a snarling pitbull in the paper will only enforce people biased views of the bull breeds.

Hi,

Well im sorry folks but i could never make a guarantee that my dogs would NEVER bite anyone if someone was to come into our garden uninvited.

Yes they are all good with children - but i couldnt make a promise to any intruder that they would not defend this property.

Wether it was a child or a grown up - Sorry.

HELEN.

Hi helen

Who said anything about guarantees? My point is that I STILL take precautions, even though I know my dogs wouldn't bite...could the owner of these dogs say the same? Apparently not!

Chloe :)

Hi Chloe,

Every dogowner should take precautions , its a crying shame that these owners of these dogs didnt.

All i was trying to say was :-

As an owner of molosser breeds i can make no guarantees as to wether my dogs would bite or not if someone was trespassing on my property - they have all been socialized with children , i have 3 children , they are all good with children.
But still i could not make that promise - IF anyone of my dogs EVER bit anyone i would not hesitate in having one of my dogs pts.

Which i feel is the responsible thing to do when this kind of thing happens , although i would be be distraught at the fact of losing one of my dogs.

I would be more distraught IF they had decided to bite someone.

But at the end of the day there is no excuse for a dog that decides to bite a child. JMHO.

HELEN :)

hi Helen - thats exactly what I was trying to say...all breeds are different, so perhaps I could have a little more faith that mine wouldn't bite a child who came into the garden, than someone with a different breed - do you see what I mean?

Hi Chloe,

Every responsible dogowner likes to have faith in their dogs - i can see exactly where you are comming from , every breed of dog is different.

I have faith in mine - but i still wouldnt trust them 100%.

I was bitten trying to defend one of my dogs from a Springer Spaniel who had decided to take on the English Bull Terrier my family owned , i was (16) at the time , one of my legs was torn apart by the Springer Spaniel.

And if our dog had decided to fight back - lord knows what would have happened.

This SS went on to bite other children , and my grandfather had warned the owners (because they failed to have it pts when it bit me) if he saw it in the street again , he would run it over , he did and got arrested. Which some of you may find cruel - but as i said there is no excuse for a dog that bites a child - i live with the scars of what this dog did to me on an everyday basis - i dont wear shorts or mini skirts because i feel that the scarring is too ugly.

I love dogs but i always freeze when i see a Springer Spaniel - and who ever thought that one of these dogs would ever attack - not me thats for sure!

HELEN.

he had his dogs secure in his own garden, what more could he have done??

hi,
i hate to think the worst of anyone , but WHERE on earth were the parents when all this was going on nextdoor? i have read on Teletext that the owner of the dogs does not plan to have these dogs destroyed....WHY??? I cant understand people that choose to do this, if it was me im afraid i would be ridden with guilt that this had happened in the first place.
i trust my dogs, and like Chloe, i can safely say i dont think that my dogs would bite anyone and some of mine are molosser breeds, its not the dogs, its the people that own them, and its all down to training them in the correct manner. if someone came into my garden they would more than likely get licked to death! infact my last house got broken into and the dogs didnt bat an eyelid, the burgalars even had the cheek to turn up the fire!
Jane.

the apbt IS totally different from the isbt.however to a person not involved in these breeds they would look identical.
i have to agree im a lover of the apbt but if not trained and in the wrong hands they are a weapon like any other dog however the damage done by a pitbull is far worse than other dogs.there are stats however showing around the world the most bites are from other breeds and the apbt are the lowest in bite attcks.the dogs i who attacked the boy were bullterriers not apbt.
the link is http://www.itv.com/news/1751515.html

the only good thing aboput this law is that the pits that are in this country the good ones that is are owned by good dogmen who know the reposibilities of them.nothing else and they (most decent ones )wouldnt sell them to the public.however there are always money wanting back yard breeders who want a quick buck.
also remember the press everytime a bull type breed attacks they are classed as pitbulls!most are crosses etc of other dogs.!