Hi - some queries

1. I am thinking about hiring a remote control collar [with the odourless gas]. The principal reason is to stop the Corgi chasing trains which he started doing 2 weeks ago. The trains go over on an overhead bridge on the path on which we walk so there is no danger of him getting run over but he really gets overexcited by it so I really want to stop this now before he thinks of chasing other loud machinery.

He has also started becoming interested in flocks of geese so I want to nip this in the bud as well.

Am I right in thinking that you have to anticipate the chase, call him BEFORE he chases, then if he ignores press the button; then when he looks at you call him again and treat him?
I was also going to start clicker training because his mind could do with it.

2. Is it inadvisable to use the collar to stop growling? He has had some probs with aggression towards other entire males since he was beaten up. This has greatly reduced now we walk him alone and mostly in wide spaces. However, he still growls aggressively and in prolonged manner if any dog jangles past the house so I don't think he has got over it. It is different from plain barking which doesn't happen that often and he is pretty good when we say "Quiet!". The growling has been really hard to stop - would the spray help this prob?

thanks
Cissy x

Hi C

I don't know about spray collars - but I would be careful you don't try to cure too many things at once with it or it might become ineffective.... regards the geese I think you might find your dog comes worse off if he gets close!! :D

C

thanks Chloe - I was a bit apprehensive about them for that reason and because he figures things out so quickly. So am desperate for a quick fix but not to get it wrong. I think it is about time we also tried the clicker training as his obedience is all over the place and this might be a more positive activity all round.

Agree the potential for geese bites is worrying but he has only seen the fun side so far as the geese have flown off honking. Other main concern is to avoid inevitable social leprosy when this behaviour is observed by others. Of course I quite like the geese too so don't want them to have heart attacks or anything.
C

I would never try and stop a dog from growling -it's the final line in doggie defence and without a growl you have what is perceived as 'attacking with no warning' :( I think you need to take advice on *why* your dog is growling, and seek to eliminate that reason.......... Simply training him with a Master Plus that growling gets you punished will push him to seek other methods of removing the problem, and potentially lead to other behavioural problems :(
It should be possible to train him not to bark at trains by desensitsation rather than the Master Plus - simply take him to a place where he can see the trains, but is outside his 'zone' for barking at them, and reward him each time a train passes and he doesn't bark ( a small tasty food treat like a piece of liver is ideal). Once he's looking for the treat when a train appears, move a little closer, and repeat the excercise. Once he can sit or wait within his normal barking zone without barking, move a little closer again and repeat........ This should be repeated over several days (preferably several times a day, so he has plenty of chances to think about what's happening retrospectively). If he barks, then go back to where he didn't bark, and try again..........

HTH

Digger thanks for info on the trains [we tried but will keep trying]. Thanks also for confirming that the collar is not advised for growling.
He is a very nice dog so we don't want to muck this up. We were advised [by a recommended observer] that the growling is related to his underlying male/male fear aggression problem and that has been much better now outside the house but difficult to stop inside. We live in an end-of terrace house which means invisible dogs going past 2 walls.

Our only option so far has been to put him in rooms which aren't next to the boundary walls - this is hard to do for long because they are rooms we don't really use. I think the clicker will help distract him from the invisible dogs as there will be more fun things to focus on.

Gemini - hope you have success; jumping up is a really hard one - but I find that the biggest problem is the jumpees saying "oh it's ok I don't mind" .... grrrrr...
C

Hi Cissy,

We have just invested in a collar with citronella in and last night watched the video - if you hire one, it should come with that and we found it very informative in terms of when to use it, how to use it etc. Buster is wearing the collar on its own for a couple of days before we use it, so he gets used to it being round his neck ... from what I can gather, yes it will help you achieve the two things you need to, but obviously I need to try all this out for myself. I've got mine to stop Buster jumping up at people and not calming down when they come in the door, also clamping his jaw around their wrist in excitement, whilst it doesn't hurt, I don't seem to be able to stop it , it has become a bit of an embarrassment now and I have tried everything, click and treating, getting people to ignore him - which unfortunately has never worked as people don't realise that eye contact with the dog is not ignoring him - and whilst he never jumps up or does any of the above to any of his immediate family, i.e. us and the kids, I need to nip it in the bud with everyone else. So good luck, as I say, watch the video and also a really good book comes with it, hopefully it will work for both of us!
Nicki

Nicki - I would be very careful that your dog doesn't associate visitors with a nasty suprise (the spray) - you could end up with the opposite problem on your hands :( I could never stop my staff from greeting people, so I found it easier to put her away until they were in and settled, then give them a treat to give her... when I let her in, the visitors made her sit, then she got the treat. She learned to come in and sit down as opposed to jumping around the place

Have not read all the replies as have dogs reminding me they require food, but I do have and have used a Master Plus collar, and found it worked well.

The way I used it was to give no instruction, so the dog did not associate the spray with me. The thing I was trying to sort in the main was the youngsters habit of rushing at one of the other dogs and hitting them in the ribs (T bone effect) What I did was wait till the dog was about 2 to 3 feet from the target dog and fire the collar, I only had to do it once to brake the habit.

With your situation I would get someone to walk behind you and you walk the dog as normal, instruct the person who has the sender pad to trigger the collar the moment the dog starts the unwanted behaviour, it will be a bit delayed as we are not as quick as dogs. Contact me if you think I can help any more.

thanks Jackie - I'm glad you only had to use it once; will let you know how I get on.
C

Hi Chloe,
Believe me, I have tried everything including getting visitors/people to give him treats when he sits, unfortunately he will only tend to do this once he has jumped all over them for five minutes, he loses complete interest in the treat. I have tried preparing a tasty Kong when I know someone is coming round for a visit, whilst he's normally food oriented, it's only once he's calmed down that he'll go for that, which defeats the object reallly, and I've also tried removing him from the room for five minutes until he calms down, he calms down immediately as he's so used to it, but as soon as we open the door he runs back in and it starts all over again, so back outside he goes ... and so it goes on. What I felt was important is that he isn't isolated from visitors because as you say, Staffs love people and I don't want to give him a bad association. Although we've bought the collar, I am going to try a few other things my behaviourist has suggested before we go for that, which is basically to put him on a lead when people come round, once he has calmed down then to click and treat, then let him go ... but I fear that the same cycle will start all over again as it does with putting him away. Thanks for your advice, I've just got to that stage now where he's a big boy and it's so embarrassing, I get totally stressed out and it looks like he's out of control [which I know can be rewarding to him in itself], when in fact he's a brilliant dog in every other aspect.

Aw bless staffies - I love them :) Mine would jump straight up into my arms from floor height!

Have you thought of putting him in a crate in the same room when you have visitors?

Hi Chloe, my friend's female Staff leaps onto her lap like a lap dog, unfortunately Buster is far too big for that ... the behaviourist suggested a crate, but to be honest he's nearly 10 months old now and as he's always been good at being left in his bed at home in the dining room, we've been lucky as he's not destructive, I feel I may have left it too late now. I must admit in the jumping up department I feel a miserable failure, hence the collar, but as I say he's a brilliant dog, has a wonderful personality as only Staffs have I think, one thing my behaviourist did suggest was getting a baby gate between the dining room and the living room, but as we have a see-through door I felt that it served the same purpose, i.e. once he calmed down he could come in, but that hasn't worked. I'll see how I go ... the only thing is we're having a big BBQ on Sunday, about 10 adults and 12 children coming round ... I'm sure once they've all been here for half an hour he'll be fine, but it's that initial coming through the door and all the excitement, you know? I'm half dreading it, half looking forward to it!

Hi

I got a crate for my Dane when he was 8 months - best dog invention ever! Willis, and Bee (my other dane) loved it (they are too big now and the house rabbit lives in it!)

Get him a nice good sized one, put it where he can see you all, put his toys in and a nice bed - and look for "crate training" on here. You can get them off ebay - and they are brilliant. He will be much happier in there, in with everyone, than shut out - and you will be able to see him and know he's ok. It will be his den and he will love it i'm sure :) He can have his Kong in there and people can go up and say hello to him - not the other way round :)

Try and get visitors to come round especially for training the dog, then you can focus on him without being rude. Tell them exactly what you want them to do in advance as well!
Take Buster out for a really long walk so he's exhausted, and try to keep him hungry so he's more focused on the food.
Put a house line on him so you can control him to prevent him jumping up. Give the visitors a treat and get him to sit, when he does, ask them to bend down to his level to give him a cuddle, and if he jumps up get them to turn their back on him. Unless they are medical marvels, they wont be able to make eye contact with him that way!
Try to make the visits a bit dull, but not unpleasant. Have them come round, get the dog under control, and then leave.
You could try a system where the longer he is calm the longer they stay.

You could also teach him to deal with frustration. Take something he really really loves, a toy or his dinner, something great, and put it somewhere he can't get to it. Let him whine, bark and scratch and do whatever he currently does to relieve frustration, and wait for him to be calm. When he's calm, give him what he wants. He'll soon revert to being calm to get what he wants.

Having said that, he is a staffy and the exciteableness (is that word?) and friendliness is what makes the breed so special!

Jo

Thanks Jo, all advice welcomed ... I'll certainly keep trying!

Hi Chloe,

Just wanted to let you know that I took heed of your advice when we had a BBQ on Sunday, rather than putting him away we put him on the lead until he had calmed down, [took about 20 minutes!], and then let him go and "say hello" to everyone, some ignored him which suited me, and others he did sit with, although he did get a bit over excited about an hour or two later with one of my guests, I don't expect miracles and overall I was SO pleased with how he behaved, just making him calm down for that initial period really worked. I haven't used the collar as I took on board what you said, and I'm really, really glad! Onwards and upwards! Nicki

Hi Cissy,

The idea behind the collar is as you say disobey my command and god send gas to tell me off. Timing is the most important as is the ammount of praise you give your dog on its return. In this case it is a bit dangerouse to risk and I would prefer you use socilisation techniques instead and get your dog use to trains geese etc using a lead and loads of titbits. When you are near the train or whatever give loads of titbits so that the meeting has a positive side to it for your dog. Trains geese ets equals food and once this works you can gradually ween your dog off all the titbits and just leave the praise.