My patterdale terrior bitch had 8 puppies just over a year ago. I am in touch with all the owners except one who was the only person not known to me or a friend, but she seemed to be an experienced dog owner and specifically wanted a patterdale. She has recently emailed about a problem with her dog.

'He is lovely little dog but with one problem - he is very unpredictable around other dogs and has attacked on several occasions. This is of course quite worrying, and despite having him neutered, he still displays this behaviour.

It is getting to the stage when I am losing confidence especially as he attacked my mothers dog recently, quite out of the blue, even though the dogs have spent a lot of time together.

I am considering letting him go, and wondered, if you could suggest either a wonder cure (ever hopeful!) or failing that if you had any contacts that might like to take him on - he is great with the children - just unpredictable with other dogs, sometimes ok, sometimes not. '

I have specifically asked all the owners how thier dogs are, one will 'have a go' at his brothers, all the others a really good with other dogs. Can anyone offer any advice? I know they are my responsibility for breeding them.

IMHO it's just as much the owners responsibility for socialising them correctly. Neutering a dog agressive dog can actually make the problem worse, as it reduces the confidence giving testosterone. Maybe the owner could get along to a behaviourist experienced in dog agression and get some help in gradually socialising her boy again?

I agree alot more socialization and obedience. I watched a program on t.v about how to teach a dog to play properly with other dogs. The dog was muzzled so he/she wouldn't hurt the other dog (this dog they used to help the other play), then after this dog was doing good and not growling they brought in more dogs. I believe 5 days in totaly and on the 5th day since the dog progresed so well the muzle was removed. Their was at least 8 dogs all together big and little all playing so nice. It was a neat program not sure where it was offered.

ttfn :)

thanks for these ideas I will suggest she tries a behaviouralist. The 5 day programme sounds good, i have seen a trainer work with dogs in this way. Unofrunatley he doesn't live the dogs owner.

It's all about the dog feeling responsible for what it see's as his 'pack' and taking on the role of alpha male. Take away his need to be in charge by reassuring him that you are the boss and he will become naturally less agressive. Try reading the book 'The Dog Listener' by Jan Fennell, this woman is amazing and has turned around dogs that were about to be destroyed because of their agression. I think she also does another book which gives a 20 day programme. Believe me it works, once you take the heavy burden away from your dogs of feeling they are in charge they will be much happier and so will you :)

Jan Fennel is amazing because she has sucked so many people into her way of thinking by her writing - if you really watch your dogs you will find a huge range of body language which tells different stories under different circumstances - Ms Fennell's 'one size fits all' approach is actually contrary to what an experienced behaviourist will have in their tool box - if Ms Fennell's approach doesn't work she has very little else to fall back on.

Could it not be that she has 'sucked people in' because they have tried her methods and they actually work? After 20 years of working with dogs I would say she is an experienced behaviourist. Her method obviously works for a lot of people so why completely trash it because it didn't work for you??? What else does an 'experienced behaviourist' have in their tool box, a clicker by any chance???

I've been dealing with 'behavioural' problems in dogs for 23 years now........ Starting with my own, and friends and families, and progressing to puppy classes and KC Good citizens schemes........ I don't 'trash' her work - but I do like others to be aware that the newly converted often don't understand the complexities of canine behavioural problems, which may be rooted in medical problems as well as those which require behavioural training........ An 'experienced behaviourist' may have a variety of tools and techniques, including a stooge dog to socialise with, long lines, maybe spray collars, maybe even an e collar for cases for which everthing else has failed........... A variety of techniques and approaches far too many to list here will have been built up over a period of time and adapted to suit dog and owner. Ms Fennells ideas are very similar to those first put forward by John Fisher - he then found that many dogs went into a complete recline when introduced to so called 'pack ranking' - some even became aggressive.......

Can I say that I doubt very much that this little dogs problem is that he see's himself as the alpha, the problem is probably down to lack of socialisation, he probably hasnt learnt how to interact with other dogs properly, the owner hasnt complained about anything else apart from him being aggressive towards other dogs, if he was the alpha then he would be displaying other problems such as aggression towards strangers in the house, and towards his owners,

I firmly beleive that if you misdiagnose the the dog as being the alpha, and take on the Jan Fennel programme you can actually cause more problems!

Patterdales are very difficult dogs, I used to know someone who had a couple, to be honest they are working dogs and not really suitable for pet homes unless the owner has pleanty of experience.

Best of luck sorting out his problem,why not tell the owner to contact a behaviourist who has delt with dog aggressive dogs to see if they can help?

Just a thought - the owner doesnt say if the dog was on a lead at the time that it displayed aggression. Having a dog on lead around other dogs can give the dog a sense of not being in control as its unable to use the "flight" reflex and so resorts to "fight" instead. Also, if its only dog-aggressive then it may be important not to scold the violent dog and console the attacked dog when this happens - if the two dogs are of similar pack status, the aggressive dog may be trying to establish itself as the dominant dog (natural behaviour) and by scolding or punishing, while comforting the other dog, they may be continuing the problem...

Fascianting discussion.... I will pass on all your suggestions to the dogs owner and will ask if the dog was on a lead, and give her this web site. I have found the ideas very helpful, such a lot of knowledge on this site! It also stimulates me to go back and re read the 'dog listener'

It also makes me want to give up my 'day job' and spend much more time with dogs. i loved the whole experience of breeding and raising the puppies. I am not going to repeat the breeding though, the thing i learnt most was how much i didnt know!!!

I have the same problem with my dog, he is 3 yrs old (yorkie) always been socialised with other dogs, great with kids and adults. Up until a few months ago i looked after my sisters dog while she was at work, max (my dog) has known him since he was a puppy, my sis dog is a year younger. One day out the blue max attacked him, now we have to keep them apart as it happened everytime they had contact with each other, He goes for my mums GSD, my cat who is 5yrs, my niece has just got a rottweiler( 17wks old now) only a baby and he tried to attack it too. Going for walks is horrendous he snarles and throws himself at every living animal that walks near, He used to be so friendly with other dogs, cats rabbits, anything, then he changed. Am i right in thinking his hormone's suddenly kicked in? Other than this he is very well behaved and very loving with all people. Where did i go wrong?

Hormones? Unlikely at his age.......... I'd suggest that he's discovered when pushed by the younger dog that by snapping and snarling he can have some power and he likes it!