Hello again

Could anybody recommend a good method for teaching a pup to track? I'm running out of things to teach my dobe pup Cam. He finds "find it" wildly exciting but gets bored quite easily so I thought it would be an idea to introduce him to tracking (not sure if that is the correct term - basically, I mean: give him a smelly object, then he sniffs around to try and find an object bearing the same smell).

I'm aware I need to break this game down into different sections, but have no idea where to start. Any ideas?

Thanks

Jo

There was a series of articles in Your Dog a couple of years ago going into detail.
I've probably got copies somewhere, if you want me to I can post them to you, or copy them into word (my scanner is dead!) and email them. Email me at JoCorney@aol.com if you'd like me to.

take care,
Jo (a different Jo, obviously!)

I remember those articles Jo - they were by Sheila Bailey of the Derbyshire Canine Centre. Very good too :)

Jo, i taught my dog to track for Working Trials (although i consider us still very much novices at this game ;) )

Here's how:

Start on a good day weatherwise - so no strong wind or hot sun. Grass is good to start - prefetably not walked on by too much else.Take a pole out with you, and a fav. toy which you can drag along the ground.

Work with the wind behind you, and stick a pole (we use electric fence poles) in the ground. Leave the dog with someone or tied to a fence nearby as you want to tease the dog with the toy.....start by the pole and put the toy on the ground, wiggle it and call dog (who is restrained) excitedly.

Run or walk backwards facing the pole, and draggin the article, for about 20 paces, then place the article (toy) on the ground and hide it if at all possible ie cover with grass.

REtrace steps, try to be excited all the time.

Collect the dog, who is preferably on a special harness, and line, and start him at the pole pointing to the gorund and say "track". He will hopefully charge ahead towards the toy, when he retrieves it HUGE game and fun :) :)

Repeat for 30 paces and then 40 paces. MOve the pole along 15 paces or so to reach fresh ground.

That's it to start - all handlers will have their own way but this worked well for our group with a variety of dogs - BSD, Dobe, Beardies, Flattie.

The thing about tracking is that ultimately it is all about articles: if your dog is mad keen to retrieve (and you can teach this) you are part way there. Dont try to instil discipline at the start, you really want that enthusiasm. My dog will reallly pull me now and that's good :)

I thought she was all over the place when i was training her, but kept faith in her and encouraged her enthusiasm and now i am excited about what she is doing. So dont be put off if your dog does this! Also, don't ever pull your dog off a track as a sensitive dog will be discouraged. Try to trust the dog.

As time goes by, you can track and find articles along the route (or he will after a time start steam rollering ahead to what he believes is the end of the track). When doing this you will probably start heading into the wind so that the scent of the articles or toy will rise towards the dog. Start doing "legs" which is when it becomes really interesting - i was watching an experienced triallist last week with her Lab and he was amazing.

There is so much to learn and it really is so interesting; you might also want to consider a WT style Search Square - well done you for giving your dog such an interesting life :)

Good luck

Lindsay

I recommend Terry Hadley's "A Tracking Manual" - hardback, £15.99 from www.k9education.co.uk and also Roy Hunter's "NOsework for Fun" which I started off with and am still learning from. Be careful about getting any of the other books as honestly i have one or two and they can confuse.

Hi Jo

Depends what discipline you are going to follow as WT and the other one use widely differing ways - best to have a word with your trainer if he is Cam's breeder as well as he would be by far the best person to advise on this.

BTW saw a 7 month old doberpup today who is doing tracking with multiple legs, standoffs and looked absolutely brilliant and wanted to carry on - this was in the hot sun this afternoon so she was not allowed to do much but it just showed what can be done with a youngster when you have the experience and know what you are doing

Christine

Hi Jo

Not sure from your post that you actually mean tracking or scent discrimination Teach them both if you're bored :D

Fun way of teaching scent discrimination is to use tennis balls. Get about three clean tennis balls (at least two :) ) and put them around in the garden or wherever. Then take one and play with the puppy with it. It gets lots of your scent from your hands and puppy spit all over it - it'll get very smelly. Throw it for him to fetch not too near the other balls and let him run and pick it up. Loads of praise and play with him when he does- this is the important bit. Tell him to 'Find it' or similar when you let him run after the ball. Throw the ball near to one of the other balls. If he selects the wrong ball simply take it off him and put it away without saying anything and no reward. Then tell him to 'Find it' and send him back to look for the right one then a big reward with a game when he does. Keep it short and happy so he doesn't lose interest. You can use other toys/articles etc.. if you prefer.

For tracking get yourself a little pole to use as a marker where you start. Start with the wind behind the dog (this is to stop him air scenting the article - you want him to follow the track with his nose) I'd use treats. Find a grassy area which hasn't been walked about on. Stick your pole in the ground and trample a little of the grass down around it. Drop a few treats on the trampled grass. Use little ones that don't need chewing much - cheese is popular. Then set off in a straight line with small but firm footsteps. At every footstep drop a treat into it. Don't go far - about 10 steps and then put his toy down at the end of your track. When you get to the end of the track step off in about three huge steps to the side and then return to the start. Keep the pup on the lead and take him to the start of your track. Say 'go tracking' or something similar and show him the food at the start. Use your hand to direct his nose to the ground if it lifts up. When he's eaten the treats at the start (and do this when he's hungry!) then you can move on up the track showing him where the treats are in your footsteps. He will get the scent of the crushed grass where he is collecting his treats. Then loads of praise and a game when he reaches his toy! Keep your tracks short and straight to start with. You can get longer and turn corners later. To progress with him initially you can gradually reduce the amount of food you are using to a treat every now and again along the way.

Have fun :)
Lara x

Hi

I also taught two of mine to track, almost the same method as Lara.

1. Use grassy ground where no human or dog has walked. Point yourself into the wind so the scent is coming at him.
2. Put a stake in the ground a little way from where you are going to start & peg your dog.
3. put a second stake in and shuffle round it several times to mark the start. Carry a third stake with you and a toy.
4. SHUFFLE a short distance in a straight line (5-10feet), dropping little treats every foot or so. put the 3rd stake in the ground, and the toy at its base.
5. JUMP off your track, so you leave a clear distance between scent and you walking back

Take you dog to the 1st stake and hold him there encouraging him to smell the scent, then say "track on" or whatever term you want, and let him walk in front of you. DO NOT try to tell him where to go, always let him take the lead. It's better for him to pull you along than you to tell him where to go. Pulling can be slowed with heavy line.

As he gets the idea, make the track longer, then walk small steps, then normal steps, reducing the number of treats on the track. Each time with a toy or treat at the end. When he can do a straight line well, add dog legs and turns.

One of mine goes like a steam train, the other one pussy foots about like a fairy, but they both get there.

Once they have "track on", its easy to get them onto any other scent you want.

I think you may be right Lara :)

Looking back it does sound as if Jo means Scent Discrimination rather than tracking

Jo, as you have now read <g> there are several ways to teach to track - I started off with titbits but my dog soon lost interest and so I had to learn how to motivate her from then on (easy, just use a toy :D ) A police trainer I know will use toys or food as long as the dog will be enthusiastic, so choose whatever you feel is best. People will start either into or away from the wind; I have read and listened to so many people whether to track into the wind or away, etc......

My reasoning is this: it's best to actually start nursery tracks with the wind behind, as the dog has to truly track yours or the helpers track for the end article/toy and cannot scent the article itself at the beginning. This teaches the dog to get its head down and not try to air scent. As time goes by - it may be weeks or months depending on the dog - you can track into the wind more as then you will probably be laying articles on the track for the dog to find and it will help the dog if he doesnt have to go past the said article before he scents it. It all depends :D . And some people barely take notice of the wind and their dogs are so used to different conditions they have great dogs used to all sorts.

MInd you, i tried "ignoring" the wind too early and got hellishly confused as my dog started to track about 7 yards from the track i had laid - she was right, there was a cross wind and my scent was where she was.

It's fascinating stuff. I wish more people worked their dogs like this as it is very satisfying for the dog and knackers it out too ..... !!!

Lindsay

Now i expect you will come on and tell us that you DID mean scent discrimination after all :D ;)

i am in the process of training two dogs, (Baloo a 13mth lab, and Bosh a 10mth GSP) to track and search people, the aim being that these two pups will be fully operational SAR dogs.
we started a few months ago at our training field getting people to run away from the dogs and every few feet calling the dog, with the do being held, the person would then go into hiding, behind a tree/bush/long grass etc, the dog is released with the command, 'find', (as young pups, when learning to play fetch the command find is used to got the dog used to the command), as soon as the dog has 'found' the person in hiding he has a game with his favourite toy, the dog is then led away while the person goes into hiding again this time behind another tree (the person in hiding has the fav toy), when the dog is turned back around he is again released with the command of find, the dog goes to the place that he first 'found' the person but obviously cant find them so then has to use his nose in order to find the person and his toy, when he has found the missing person he has a game with his toy before ending it for that session.
when the dogs got the hang of this game we introduced a tracking harness and line, the dog is told to sit while he watches the 'missing person' walk off out of sight, when the person is safely 'missing' the track can begin the dog is shown the spot where the person dissappeared from and told to find, then dog then (hopefully) uses his nose to find the 'missing' person, when the person is found a game is played, the process is repeated again before the session is ended for the day.
It is important to keep the searches short in the begining so that the pup doesnt get bored, plenty of praise is given and the whole process to the dog is a big game.
both baloo and bosh scent air and ground in order to find the 'missing' person, but obviously we want this.
hope all this makes sense and helps
tanya

Tanya
Just as a matter of interest, whats the reason for using a tracking harness and line rather then a normal collar and long line.

Robert

When the dog is pulling you around a track (and mine do like trains) they would cut off their oxygen supply if they were on a collar! (LOL). It would also intefere with their scenting. In schutzhund the dogs are tracked on a collar with the line underneath and between their legs, or on a botcher harness which goes round their waist or they are allowed to track free. In working trials dogs must work on a harness and it is strictly prohibited to use the line underneath.

HTH

Allyson

Thanks everyone for your detailed responses - made really interesting reading. I did mean tracking (I realise now!) - though teaching Cam scent discrimination sounds like a good idea too (hadn't thought of that one). I also hadn't thought about working trials - are they open to any dogs? I sort of had it in my head that they were only for police dogs.

Kerioak, thanks for the tip re having a word with Cam's breeder (I have no intention of doing "the other one" by the way!) Unfortunately the breeder's father is very seriously ill at the moment so I'm trying not to bother him as they're going through a tricky time. We've been going to a training class in Haughton with a chap who has kept dobes in the past and who has a very positive approach to training.

Oh well, duty calls - time to play my 5000th game of "find it" this evening. :D

Thanks again everyone

Jo

PS Jo C - thanks for the kind offer re dog magazine article. I'll have a word with my breeder next time I speak to him (might be a few weeks) and get back to you then (I'll send you something to cover the postage and whatnot!)

Working Trials are open to any breed at all. The smaller dogs eg staffies, CKCS, lancashire heelers etc can only qualify up to UDex as in the higher stakes the jumps must be at full height (3ft high, 9ft long and 6ft scale). There has been one Dobermann WT Ch in the Uk I believe, which belonged to John Fleet.

Working Trials is like a 3 day event for horses with nosework, agility and control; not everyone does the PD stake which involves criminal work.

Schutzhund which also involves tracking must include manwork.

The best book for learning about tracking is The Tracking Dog by Glen Johnson (US) it is the "bible" for all serious tracking enthusiasts.

I compete in Working Trials with my weims; my current bitch works "ticket" only now. If you want to learn more the best place to go is an actual trial and watch experienced dogs and handlers in TD and PD. If you contact Working Trials Monthly on the net (the magazine for Working Triallists) they will tell you when the next trial is in your area.

There are not many dobes in trials at the moment.

regards

Allyson

Thanks Allyson, that's really helpful. :)

Hi chaps- Just had a quick thought about starting off tracking. If your pup really doesn't get the hang of things at first and you don't want to use food, may I suggest something that i've experimented with on my own new pup. Set the dog up as mentioned by all the above. Instead of walking or shuffling your 20 paces, attach a toy (I use a ragger-nice and smelly!)to a short lead and drag it along behind you, making sure that you're still walking in a straight line. When you reach your 20 pace mark, untie the toy and leave it there and return to your dog. It is really important that you either go back along exactly the same line as you walked earlier, (This is more difficult than it sounds unless you try this on a dewy morning-then it's easy!), or failing that, I always walk in a semi-circle back to the dog to start it off. Once your pup has made the connection by following the scent, you can increase the distance, or start adding turns in.
Be patient and have fun!!
Ali.
p.s. Most Working Trials tend to be from about now until about May/June, so you've timed it just right.Try to go to watch one if you can, everyone is always very friendly and full of helpful tips for a new comer.