I have a show quality female labrador. I have bred her for 2 times.
First time, mated with a son of Am.Ch. which is also a show dog. and the last time, mated with a Australian Champion. Both are OUT-Crossing technique.(no relations)
But I think the puppies are not good enough to be on show. They 're not better than their parents. They are only almost be like their parents.
The question are :
How to choose the stud and bitch to improve their next generation??
Is it collect that there are other factor like feeding bitch, look after them after birth, or some genetic that I have to choose and how can I know which stud is matched to mine???

an Example If i need the puppies have bigger body than their parents how can I choose the stud because event I choose the bigger stud, How can they produce puppies bigger than themself?

Thank you for every advice.

Goodness, if we could answer that question there would be nothing but top quality dogs. Think you have done well if you have managed to produce 2 litters that are as good as a show quality dam and a Ch. sire.

The people who have been breeding for years do seem to beable to see what the likely result of a particular breeding may be, but that is experance and there is know way that you can pass that on even if you would wish to. Half the time they do not know why they know that the lines of one dogs will be enhanced by the lines of another. But they do seem to know when it is needed to bring in new blood and when they should breed back into their own lines.

Till time has come to your aid, you can watch to see what certain studs produce when used on bitches of simular lines to yours. Just pick on one of your bitches faults and try to improve on that without loosing any of the good points.

When you think of it, even from a very good litter 90% will be going to pet homes so the most important thing is the temprement.

I dont know if this will be helpful or not but if you are wanting to improve a particular point - like more body - is to breed to a dog who is at least correct and ideally outstanding in that point. If you breed to a dog who is top heavy - you wont get puppies that are "inbetween" you will get some that are like the dam and some that are like the sire. Mostly points do not "dilute". For example if you breed an undersized bitch to an oversize dog you will get some undersize and some over size . The only way that you will get correct size from a mating like this is the "luck" factor that brings together in an individual puppy the genes for "correct" size that the two parents may carry but not pass on often.

i dont look for a dog that has what i want!!!!!! i look for one that produces it. ---if you look in the ring youll start to see certain things that come from certain dogs-eg big ears- poor rears- high set tails-good expression-good angulation and so on, -see which dog sires what it is youre lacking in your bitch, it worked for me, id never use a dog on what he looks like, but what his input usually is, and of course dont forget some bitches will never produce no matter who you use on them, she has to make a valuable input too, and your very very lucky if it all comes together,

HI Dizzy, Surely if the dog does not possess the good point you are aiming to improve - he is unlikley to pass it on!! I agree that a dog that posseses a good point wont necessarily pass it on - but would you breed to a dog that doesn't even posses that good point and expect him to improve on it in the bitch?

I agree to see as many studs' offspring as possible is the ideal scenario but I would think its only really helpful if you can see the bitch he was mated to, to produce that offspring - and her parents too perhaps as well. It takes two to tango.
Those that have been involved with their breed for many years will have accumulated all that sort of knowledge by seeing generation after generation of individual kennels/lines/ families being shown - but someone just starting out wouldn't have this advantage.

sorry westie lover, i have to diagree with you there- i value genetic input more than pheonetic , i used to own a rott that had a rounder eye, this put off a few from using him-however he very rarely passed this through-this was because his genetic makeup was madeup from the correct almond eye, and so it goes, you can have a cracking dog that will never ever sire anything good-but use a dog that genetically carries what you need and i feel youve more chance of getting it, ive used 3 dogs now that 2 of which havent been shown and one had. the two not in the ring have sired stunning progeny, whereas the one that was shown has sired "SOME" nice progeny, taking into account im lucky in that i have a bitch that produces well for me, so for me i look into whats behind the dog im thinking of using-not the one stood infront of me :)

I stand corrected Dizzy :-) Re your round eyed dog: you can be confident do this with your own breeding - because you know whats behind it , and probably how all his siblings turned out (and maybe his his dams and sire siblings too) but would you use a dog from another kennel this way?

yes westie lover i would-i used a male whos front wasnt his fortune----but i went on the internet and looked up as much of his pedigree and pictures etc that i could find, what his sire and dam had previously produced etc, the fronts where great all through-plus my bitch has one of the straightest fronts in the breed, but at the time i didnt know if it was something shed pass on, but taking all into account i took the chance----and im so pleased i did-i got fabulous pups from it, non with bad fronts, --the breeding has been repeated it was so good---and guess which breeding im doing again at the end of the year, you have to go with your gut feelings, plus take into account as many relatives as you can find or see, you have to weigh up what it is you need, but again its not always going to come from a dog that has it, more likely a line that carries it, :)

"Those that have been involved with their breed for many years will have accumulated all that sort of knowledge by seeing generation after generation of individual kennels/lines/ families being shown - but someone just starting out wouldn't have this advantage."

You are soooo right about that!! That is EXACTLY what being a responsible breeder is all about!! Which is why new people interested in breeding should be patient and spend time learning from experienced breeders, rather than practicing without knowledge on living animals and then, even worse, selling their mistakes to unsuspecting families, who pay the price of their ignorance for many years after the new breeder has moved on!!
So often, you read people saying "we all have to start somewhere!" but not without learning first!!

So are you just going to keep on breeding from this female until she comes up with some thing that you do like? none of my females have more than 2 litters most of the time only 1 just think of all the money i COULD make. poor bitch Jackie

I think you need to have at least two litters from your bitches to develop your breeding program, preferably from dogs of differnt breeding. In this way the features faults and virtues that they share are likely to have come from your bitch, and those they do not share are likely to be from the sire. Though I am oversimplifying her, as you will also be comparing with the offspring the sires have had to other bitches.

This also gives you the option to backtrack or go sideways in your breeding plans. You may find that your line comes to an abrupt end, as you have bred into a problem. By having previous or later offspring of your bitches around you may be able to salvage things.

For example a bitch that I bred 3 years ago, from a litter where I did not keep a puppy, has been bred from. Now if I need to I amy be able to use some of her offspring at some later date in my breeding program, as my next breeding step is a complete outcross, and I will want to come back into more familiar teritiry in the next geneartion. I tend to make plans a couple of generations ahead, though obviously they can be rather fluid as circumstances change.

I don't think you can learn much from only breeding once in each bitch generaion.

Hi,
I THINK the real question is: Where does she go with the outcrossed puppies?
When doing an outcross, generally, you are looking to gain something that you don't already have. So you would select the puppy that acquired this sought after quality and hopefully did not LOSE anything you value utmost and breed that puppy back into either the dam or sire line, whichever is closest to what you are trying to acheive.
Have you had your puppies evaluated by an unbiased expert? Perhaps you are too hard on them/yourself. How old are they?
If you have bred this bitch to two outcrosses and the results truly are disappointing, then you have two options: retire her from the whelping box or go with a linebred dog next time. If this also "fails", then I think you need to concede that your bitch, no matter how wonderful herself, is not going to produce anything to benefit the breed.
Thoughts, Bonnie

Thank you very much. I understand the point now.