Buster (a flatcoat retreiver cross boarder collie) is very playful and loves a chase. This includes rabbits, hares, my young son, horses, cows, sheep. The first three subjects of pursuit do not cause a a problem but, obviously, the last three do.

Buster is 4½ and, although boisterous, quite obedient in everyway but refuses to obey when the chase is on. I did think about an electric collar?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Buster's Mum

what breed is buster? :)

Sorry - Buster is a Flatcoat retreiver cross Boarder Collie. The Boarder Collie bit's instinct is just too great for him to resist but I just hope there is a way.

Thanks for pointing out that I'd missed a rather important piece of information - I've now edited my original posting to clarify.

I have some excellent email advice from BC rescue (I was looking at rescuing a farm dog a while ago), it really opened my eyes to the breed. If you would like a copy please [email chloe@iscario.com]email me[/email] and I'll send it to you - might help you understand your dog a little better :)

Unfortunately, with the new "Hunting With Dog's" bill at present before the house of lords, chasing hare does matter. In the eyes of the law this is hare coursing and as such is something which could lead to your dog being destroyed!! So many people who wanted a hunting bill never noticed(?) or never bothered about this fact. Chasing a Rabbit is fine but not a Hare although I'm not sure how a dog is supposed to know the difference. It is not necessary for the owner to intend or to encourage their dog to chase the hare, the act of chasing is enough!

John

OH DEAR! Poor Buster. I really do need to discourage him out of his greatest enjoyment. He far prefers a good chase to anything else (including food). He is a model canine in everyway, apart from this chasing.

I do hope somebody has a suggestion I can try.

If this is a serious post, which I doubt from the replies, then once the dog has been shot by the angry farmer, than your problem will be solved :-(

However on the small hope that it is a real question, then, you won't cure him, it has become a habit, you now owe it to your dog, as his resposible keeper, to keep him away from chasing livestock.

whats wrong with their replies?!

i agree, the poster must keep the dog away from all livestock

I doubt if you will cure the problem & even if you "think" its sorted out, it should never be allowed stock again. Suggest a strong lead is your best bet :(

Sam - I wanted to ask you a horse question...will post it on here later :)

Have to admit I would aggree with Sam, just keep him away from sheep or just on a lead, after all does anyone actually let their dog off near sheep and can honestly say their dog wont chase? Dogs will be dogs!
Vikki

Doesn't the country code say keep ALL dogs on leads around livestock any way, better to be safe then sorry

Robert

I would definately not allow my dogs off the lead around any livestock where they are not known. And mine have to be bomb proof around sheep and cattle, having to work around them all winter. The thing is, I know they are safe but the farmer does not and as such I would not risk them.

Regards, John

Reply to "Sarah" above.

Yes, this is absolutely serious. On visiting the Lake District at the weekend Buster chased a sheep and refused to return (although, under normal circumstances, comes back quite reliably). The idea behind my posting was to find a way to train him to not chase and to avoid him being shot. We live in a very rural area, where sheep and other livestock live and before resorting to keeping him constantly on the lead I had hoped that somebody would be able to help me.

I still hope that there is a way for me to help Buster.

your answer is an e-collar...such behaviors can easily be mastered if we hold the higher cards in the area of technology and behavioral science................at this point his knowledge of human behavior is enabling him to to master you.your holding none of the cards!!!!.........i have used them on literally hundreds of dogs they are not only effective they are more humane than any other method if used properly.......please e-mail me and i will forward a paper i wrote regarding..the pager collar''.......this collar is the state of the art technology...technology effects every part of our lifes why not dog training...think of it as a telephone with a twist!!!......kellytoonces@aol.com.......................

This does seem to be worth a try - it was sort of the lines I was already thinking of but didn't want to restort to it if there was another way. Obviously, if push comes to shove it will be "on a lead you go" but I would like to try other things before that. I want a happy, well behaved dog. Then again, don't we all.

Thanks for all the postings so far. I've not used a forum before and have found the experience very helpful.

You may find that the type of collar that is radio controlled to spray water would work, it has stopped one of mine running at other dogs and crashing into them. But your problem is far more of a worry. Hope you can sort it but if not the lead is the safest answer. Using a collar of any type means that you need to let the dog chase before you can use the collar to discourage so you need to find a farmer who let you use some of his sheep to work with.

20 years ago I discovered that the street dog I rescued was a persistent sheep chaser and it wasn't possible to keep him away from them as I live in the Welsh valleys and they were wandering everywhere. He'd hear them and slip his lead and be off before I could do anything.

I did cure him of it tho. I went to see a local farmer and asked his advice. He said either to put him under the cattle grid while he drove a few sheep accross or to find a sheep with a lamb. With his permission I chose the latter.

I found a good large sheep with a lamb still following and with the dog on an extending leash and a very tight collar allowed him to get close enough to go into the 'stalk', of course sheep being protective of her lamb didn't try to run but turned and 'faced' him, stamped her foot and when this didn't work charged him. He was hit about four times and still growling and wanting to fight her when I dragged him away (the sheep chased both of us!) I thought I'd failed :( and it wasn't working.
Next time he heard sheep tho he got in closer to me, so I followed the sound until we could see the sheep and that dog would have got in my pocket if he could lol HE NEVER LOOKED AT SHEEP AGAIN

Why do people suggest this training method? It hurts the dog, what the point?!?!?!? Just keep him on the lead, what the problem with that?!
Vikki

If you live in a rural area that can mean that you can't let the dog off the lead even in your own garden. In my case there are sheep walking down my street regularly. Unless you are willing to keep your dog on the lead for the rest of his life then something has to be done and at least it means that if he does manage to escape there's less chance of him chasing sheep and getting shot (he believed that sheep were dangerous). It may have been a painful lesson but it was one he never forgot.

Hi,
Firstly you need to give him an outlet for chasing, buy a chuckit (you can get them from www.petplanet.co.uk or a few pet shops sell them. If your dog doesn't already, get him playing with balls and retrieving them. If he has something else to do it will make him far less likely to want to chase animals, and he will respond better to however you choose to get the livestock chasing problem sorted out.

If you want to use some kind of aversion collar, I would use the remote control spray option before you go for an e-collar, especially as Buster has border collie in him, which makes him more sensitive. If that has no effect whatsoever then you can think about an e-collar if you really must. For both these pieces of equipment though, make sure you use them with an expert who can get the timing 100% spot on, any kind of aversion can be extremely dangerous if not done properly.

Try and find somewhere without livestock where Buster can be off the lead, even if it means you have to travel further. You can't ever remove an instinct, but you can get it under more control. Even if you 'cure' this problem, you can't be sure something wont trigger it off again, and that one time might be the occasion when a farmer with a gun is watching. Sorry to sound so negative, but it is a very serious problem, and it isn't one you can sort out by yourself, whatever you choose to do, it's far better to get professional help. Also, please bear in mind that anyone can call themself a trainer or behaviourist, so make sure you check out whoever you use properly first.

Jo

The worrying of livestock really is a life or death situation unlike most other situations you could find yourself in. If you live in an area where there is livestock then the chances are that if your dog has found the fun of the chase then it will do it again and again. Most gardens are not dog proof if your dog really wants to go however much we might think it is. Sooner or later a farmer will get to see the dog and then unless you are very lucky the dog will be shot! Unfortunatly keeping it on the lead is no an option Vikki because sooner or later your attention will laps ant thats all it needs.

To me this is one of those situations where an E-collar could well be the answer. A short sharp lesson is far better than a lifetime of fear and nagging. But even then you really need to cooperation of a farmer.

Regards, John

Is there any truth in the myth that to cure a dog you put it in a pen with a ram? I've heard it before and just wondered... :)

What about using an extending lead in conjunction with a citronella spray collar (remote controlled)? That way the dog is still going to be under your control but i am sure the dog will still want to chase, and then you can use the spray to stop it and then call it to you by offering a tasty treat. The dog therefore would get an aversive shock when chasing but is encouraged to return to you and is reinforced for being with you. Might be worth a try. I have a border collie who loves to chase and i found that if you offer something really tasyty when walking past something that is usually chased then the dog will start to think that as soon as he sees sheep e.t.c you are going to give him something tasty and look at you. Alternatively you could play a game (as you say he prefers chasing to food, a ball game might suffice.) basically the idea is to make you more interesting than the chase, not easy with a border collie who has a strong instinct, but combined with collar training it could work.

Incidently, can't actually see why anyone would think this was a troll post as chasing is quite an ordinary problem. Well its certainly one of my problems anyway ;-)

I dont think the Citronella spray would be enough to stop a Border in full flight. The other thing is the use of titbits, you must be so careful to not be seen as rewarding the crime. I personally would never treat in this particular situation.

Regards, John

Oh yes! This has worked time and again! A friend of mine had some Geese and when she took on an adult Flattie bitch for the breed rescue found that she had a chasing bug. It chased one into the hen house so she shut the door for a couple of minutes. It never did it again!It's the old farmers way.

Of course it is not without risk though. An angry ram can really do some damage so it needs to be done with care.Thats why I advocate the collar. You are in charge of that and can use the minimum needed to do the job.

Regards, John

The thought of being stuck in a hen house with a savage goose puts the fear of God in me too! I once got locked into a stable with a frightened pony (I'm not sure which one of us was more freaked out!) while a bunch of geese patrolled up and down outside - I had to throw dandy brushes over the door like grenades to disperse them! :D

Much as I hate electric collars I have to say John is right they can be used in this circumsstance, but you have to get the timing right and get the co-operation of a friendly farmer. One of my persistant livestock chasers was cured by an electric fence, we came upon a field of sheep unexpectedly where they had never been before, went off after them, hit the fence and to this day eyes all sheep very warily.

Ingrid

They make some of the very best guard "Dogs"!!!!

Some years ago I figured I'd covered every base for Anna's first Working Test. Sheep, horses, cattle, goats and what did I see when I got there? A flock of geese! Something she had never seen! Arr well, we do the best we can!

Regards, John

Thats what my friend who owned the stables kept them for - they were evil.... they used to nip the ponies legs as we rode past. And when they had babies (goslings?) but they were the best guard dogs :)

Edit - did Anna pass the test?

Failed miserably But I tell you what. Geese taste great out of the oven! ;)

:D :D @ John

Whereabouts are you? Roger Mugford does - I think - training to stop chasers using positive training techniques, based in Surrey

My view is that you need to up your basic training and also give the dog something to do. This won't stop him chasing but will get him much more under your control which is most helpful.

To give you some idea, i spent 6 months perfecting my BSDs Leave It - you have to start small at home with leaving titbits and toys and work up to bigger and bigger and more enticing chase objects such as bikes, whilst all the time habituating the dog to livestock that doesnt run. 'And yes creating an outlet for the dog which does not involve animals at all - no chasing children <g> as consistency is part of the training. I use a Kong on a rope :) We walk in the beautiful New Forest where we have cattle, ponies, foals, pigs (sometimes! <g> ) donkeys, deer, rabbits, etc etc. and you can come across these at any time around a corner. I spent lots of time on the control aspects with my dog because my great love is walking in freedom with her, and the Forest is probaby one of the very few places this can be done with animals everywhere. Not to mention riders, cyclists, etc.

If you want a dog which will not chase, or is controllable - not always the same thing - you can train this, but it does take time and you need a good teacher. I train motivationally as this is my choice and the results are excellent. But you do have to stick at it. If i let my dog off lead and ignored her, i'm not sure but she might go for a foal.She has a very high chase instinct. But i believe it is my responsibility to watch her while we walk - it is relaxed but i am aware of her, put it like that. On the odd occasion she did start a chase, because my Leave was so ingrained she Left. She has left a deer she put up at 6 ft - so motivational training does work, but it may (not always) take longer and that's the problem. Finding a truly knowledgeable trainer is also the problem.

From your post it is not imperative he stops chasing - ie you have said he can be on the lead etc. so he can be managed instead. I am surethere are areas you can if necessary drive to, to give him off lead exercise. I have to say although my dog is very controllable it is in my view not really fair to expect any high chase orientated animal to not follow his instincts on his own (ie to let him off lead in a field where there are sheep etc) , so i would avoid such situations and up the training to Leave etc.

I know using rams etc used to be the way, but my personal view is that an electric collar is probably kinder - as rams can break bones. They are very strong. The MasterPlus remote spray collar (not electric) has been used very successfully by people who specialise in livestock training with dogs. The dog is preferably conditoined as a distraction but it can be a very strong aversive indeed. To give you some idea, my friend;s dog a Goldie, was so scared he ran away into his basket and refused to come out. Some dogs hardly react at all. Of course one has to take account of adrenalin etc. and whether the bold Flattie gundog overcomes the collie in his makeup and reactions to such collars.

Difficult! If it were my dog i would train and manage, but thats just me. I don't believe it is right to "trust" any dog around livestock completely. Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

Lindsay