Hi, Buster is now 11 months old, we have trained him using reward techniques and have basically followed Gwen Bailey's Perfect Puppy book in terms of establishing leadership etc. [OUr first dog!] He is a lovely dog, full of personality, very friendly, typical Staff, the only probelm we are having is every so often he growls at Daisy, our youngest daughter who is 6 years old. Each time this has happened, I have shouted at him, made him go "down" and he has gone through all the appeasement behaviour etc. We have then got Daisy to give him his food for a while, do some training with him etc. However, this keeps happening, not often, probably once a month or so, last night he did it when she got hold of his collar, we were all in the living room and I shouted at him and removed him from the room for five minutes. A little while later, I got Daisy to touch his collar again, using treats etc and he was fine. What worries me is that we don't seem to have "put this to bed" so to speak, is there anything else we could be doing to reinforce his place at the bottom of the pack, he is fine with my 13 year old and 11 year old, and obviously me and my husband, but I have this nagging feeling that I should be doing something else. Any advice much appreciated!

Hello

I dont know how to stop it, but our APBT would do this with my son who was 2 when we got the APBT. It wouldnt do it with my daughter who was about 6 at the time. It only stopped when my son got to about 7 years old. She would never do anything my son told her either but would obey the older childs commands no problem. I think its down to the fact that the dog doesnt see the child as having authority over it. I always keep my dogs with me when there are kids about. This behaviour did stop as the dog and kids got older.
Someone will have some advice for training Im sure. I never use a reward for good behaviour. I only give treats as and when it suits me, My dogs do what they are told because I want them to and thats the rules.

Mick

Firstly, and please do not take this the wrong way, but has your daughter to your knowledge ever done anything to hurt the puppy? This is a horrible question to ask but you need to think long and hard if there has been any incident, even if not hurt the dog has she teased him excessivley? If you think there is a chance any of this may have happened then dogs do not forget and the dog will always be more cautious and less amicable to your daughter.
If you are 100% sure that none of the above has occured then in my own opinion your dog is not behaving in an acceptable way. The staffie is known as the "nanny" dog and it is his nature to love children. Of course with any breed there can be an exeption to rule which can be for a variety of reasons.
You are correcting your dog but it reoccurs. For now it is only a warning growl but you need to consider what would happen if it went further :-(.
My advice to you, which I am sure you already know, is never to leave any young child unsupervised with a dog regardless of breed. Only in your case this needs to be followed 100%.
Maybe someone with sound training knowledge will be along later with possible solutions to rectify the situation???

Hi,
I understand that this is upsetting for you and your daughter, but I really wouldn't punish the dog when he does it.
Your dog is saying 'I'm not comfortable, back off' so if you stop him from saying that, he could well bite without warning, what other option does he have if he can't tell you he's scared? Another problem with telling him off is that he will see your daughter as even more of a threat 'oh no, she's here I'm going to be told off again!' which will make things a great deal worse.

I agree with the previous poster that something could have happened to make him frightened of your daughter, even something unintentional such as falling on him or accidentally stepping on his toe could make him wary.

You've been doing the right thing by getting her to give him treats so that he can learn she is a good thing to have around. Try encouraging her to train him to do some simple tricks, like giving a paw or spinning in a circle. That way he's being obedient, but he's having fun at the same time, also with tricks there's no pressure to get things right, so it will be very easy going and relaxed.

Involve your daughter with every fun thing the dog does, have her in the room helping you prepare his food, when it's walk time get her to fetch the lead for the dog. Also make sure she isn't around for nasty things, like bath time or having nails clipped!

It will be tricky, but try to ensure that every encounter the dog has with her is a pleasant one, when you can't be there to supervise, make sure they are not alone togther. If you're all sitting in the living room in the evening and you want a cup of tea, make sure the dog goes with you. If the dog is afraid of your daughter, you need to make sure he is not in a position to feel he needs to defend himself. Look out for signs of stress in him (yawning, showing the whites of his eyes, holding his ears flat against his head, panting, lip licking) and step in then, before he growls. Remove him from the situation, and praise him for not resorting to growling. If you miss the early signs and he does start to growl, just be jolly and cheerful and say to him 'what are you doing that for you big wimp?' and be lightearted about it. You can then diffuse the situation without adding extra stress to your dog or your daughter.

Re-read the section on handling in the Perfect Puppy (particularly the one about grabbing as young children tend to do this) and start from scratch teaching your dog to accept and enjoy being handled by her.

Staffies are usually great with kids, so if you go back a few steps before this gets out of hand you'll find that your dog and your daughter will develop a brilliant relationship, once they learn that the other is not a threat, I'm sure everything will work out.

If you are very worried about this problem, ask your vet to refer you to a behaviourist who will be able to meet your dog and your daughter and give you much better advice which is more specific to your situation.

Try to understand what your dog is thinking in these situations, it is a testament to his character that he's growling when he's unhappy rather than snapping or biting, it shows he doesn't want to be aggressive which is brilliant if he's been in a difficult situation for nearly a year.

Good luck, if you feel you need it seek professional advice. The fact that you've come on here to ask for advice shows that you care about your dog and proves you are able to deal with this situation, which is great.

regards,
Jo

Hi, thanks everyone for your advice, I'll get my Gwen Bailey out and have a re-read, as it's been some time since I've had to refer to it. All three children have been taught NEVER to be nasty to the dog, NEVER to be horrible to him in any way, and never to tease him. However, I think I'll take the advice about not leaving him unsupervised with her, 99% of the time there is always somebody in the room with both of them but I work from home so from now on I'll ensure that he's always with me if she is downstairs on her own. I am confused about the growling thing though, as in the Gwen Bailey I thought it said if the dog growls for any reason [i.e. not getting off the settee], that you should shout in a short, sharp shock way so that the dog won't want to do it again, which is obviously what I have been trying to do. Incidentally, she does help train him, comes out on the morning walk with us and runs with him/plays, I hope I have not blown this out of proportion in terms of how often it happens, it's probably been four times since we've had him ... I wondered if it was because she may fuss him more than anyone else, whilst we all call the dog to us and instigate interaction with him a high percentage of the time, I have found it hard work trying to stop her going over to him all the time, fussing him and paying him attention? As I speak, she is with my eldest daughter now, going through his training - sit, down, paw, rollover etc., all of which he is happy to do. We also did a six week course with a local behaviourist, at that time she said she thought he was very good with her as 99% of the time dogs do'nt take a lot of notice of the little ones, at this stage now though he tends to only pay her attention or not ignore her if she has treats on her! Any other advice welcome, thanks everyone very much.

May I ask what kind of a growl is it? Is it a deep scary snarl, or more of a whiny growl? The reason I ask is that sometimes children don't know when to leave a dog alone, and a dog will give a kind of warning growl to tell them (I've been told that many dogs view small children as other dogs, which how they would also respond). You mentioned that she had grabbed hold of his collar -- was she holding it for a long time and he didn't like it? Of course, I'm NOT saying that a dog growling at a child is acceptable in ANY way -- I do think that you're right by keeping an eye on both of them, and from the other posters advising you to ask a trainer. I just know that sometimes a dog will want to be on its own, and a small child might not always recognize this. If it happens again, my advice would be to seek a trainer. Good luck.

Hi, it wasn't a deep growl, he had a chew in his mouth [which he definitely wasn't growling over as everyone can take them off him, no problem], my husband said he doesn't believe it was a "real" growl, lately when Buster gets excited when a visitor comes in and starts jumping up, we have been taking him by the collar [not pulling] and putting him into another room to calm down for five minutes. Daisy made no move to do this, just merely reached for his collar, probably touched it for 2 seconds or so, that's when he growled, but as I say, not a deep one, this is my first dog so although I've seen Buster once growl at a dog and bear his teeth, that was much more serious stuff and so I know it definitely wasn't that, he also seems to play growl occasionally if he's playing football with my son and he doesn't get told off for that either. Sorry to whitter on, just trying to clarify. I have been watching him closely with Daisy this evening, she was lying on the floor and he came up and laid beside her, licked her hands and face, so it's not as if he ignores her completely. I have given her a big talk this evening about not teasing the dog, her older sister told me she does occasionally when no-one else is around, so that maybe the underlying cause, as suggested earlier. Anyway, I have taken some good advice from this board, I'll put what I've heard into practice and won't hesitate to come back if I need some more! Thank you.

Hi Gemini
what is his body language when he growls?? Is he showing teeth and is his body rigid ?
The reason I ask is you say your hubby says its not a real growl.My oldest elkhound 'growls'.He always used to do it when my youngest daughter cuddled him and he used to be punished but it never stopped.I have now learnt he is 'talking'-its a pleasure growl!! He still does it but I know its not a threat.
Archer
P.S. He only does it to the kids!!!

Hi Archer, he was standing up at the time, with his chew in his mouth and wagging his tail, it's a nightly ritual when we're all lounging on the settees, kids and/or us on the floor, that he'll pick his chew up, come round to each and everyone of us, wagging his tail and we all talk to him and play, Daisy was on her knees, he was standing next to my husband doing the above, when she reached out for his collar, touched it as I said above, and then he growled. You're right, it was no way a snarling, deep growl or baring his teeth, it was quite high pitched, very similar to when he plays football with my son, but it was definitely directed at her. I'm really grateful for everybody's replies as it's given me food for thought, I have told Daisy she is not to be on her own with him for the time being, my husband doesn't think we should over-react but obviously I want to get it right. Thank for giving me another viewpoint, it's obviously something to keep our eye on.

It could be he's not keen on having his collar held (some dogs don't like it because that's when they are dragged into the vet's surgery, put away in the kitchen as a punishment etc - not saying you've ever done that, but some people do).

One of my dogs is a great one for vocalisation. He's very fond of his toys, and is very proud carrying them around, and he loves them (and him!) to be admired. My husband and son are only allowed to look and admire, but he tries to shove them in my mouth or ear so I can share, all the while moaning and 'growling' and grunting, with his spine all hunched up and his tail wagging furiously.

Some dogs are simply more 'chatty' than others.
:)

That's exactly what Buster does, every single evening! If you're silly enough to lie on the floor, then with chew in mouth he lies down and desperately tries to shove the chew into your ears, like you say! He is quite a vocal dog too, when he lies on his back for his tummy to be tickled then he lets out these almighty howls as you're doing it, anyone would think he was in pain!

Hello, I have 4 kids aged 5, 8, 11 and 14 and also have my first dog who is 9 months. Training the dog and the kids at the same time can be a scream - usually mine! We had a similar thing happen with my 8 year old and our dog, and it was a communication problem. MOrse(the dog) hates baths, and had been allowed upstairs by my8 year old daughter while she ran a bath for herself. He panicked and hid under the bed, so my girl tried to reassure him and coax him out. He growled, she screamed and both rushed downstairs in hysterics! MOrse kept trying to come next to her and barked to tell me someting was wrong, she misunderstood his intentions and yelled louder! ONce they were brought under control and calmed down, they got together again and now she is my Assistant Trainer. I saw a site called Happy People happy dogs showing kids pictures of howdogs tell us what they feel and used it to show the little ones how to rea\d MOrse. However the girls now realise the importance of rules for dogs, and that \mum has reasons for rules! It is interesting to see how
Morse responds to each family member - I'm Boss, my husband is Fun Person but Obey Him or He gets Upset, 14 year old son is Demi-God, daughter no1 is Underdog - she let him on her bed and allows him on settee when they think BOss is out, the 8 year old is Little Boss in charge of grooming and training, while the 5 year old is Pup in need of Protection.

Staffies are very vocal dogs and many people find it frighteneing.When my younger elk plays with my staff it sounds horrendous.The noise sounds like someone is being killed but its all in fun.My older Elkhound also is vocal when playing or has his toys-it sounds very threatening but its just talking.I would pay more attention to his body language and keep reinforcing that your daughter is a freind by allowing her to give the dog his treats.
It goes without saying that they are not left unsupervised as the other posters have said
Archer

Hi, its hard to say why he doing this!! But i think punishing him evry time he growls at your duaghter, is i think going to make things worse because every time he sees your duaghter he will associate being yelled at and in trouble with her witch could make things worse, maybe he isnt a little kids dog, as such, there dogs that love evryone and then there dogs that love just older children, i wouldnt be to worried at the moment neither to careless, but i think you will find in time if you ignore his growls and tell your daughter when he growl just to get up and walk away that would be the best advise i could give, if the growling gets worse i would say go and see a animal behaviorist, they could help you.

Hi

I had exactly the same problem with my 5 year old son and our staff pup. In fact if you scrolled back for long enough you will probably find my post! I am happy to report that now our pup is almost 7 months old she and my son get along just fine.

Like you I was ever so worried about it, and feared that something terrible was going to happen if I didnt do something quick. Ruby was fine with the older kids, it only seemed to be my son that she went for.

It became obvious that, alot of the time it was my son irritating her and invading her space. He didnt mean to of course, but little kids do need to learn about appropriate play with dogs, when to leave them alone, etc. As my son was small and noisy, with a squeaky voice and always running around and jumping up and down, I reckon Ruby saw him like another pup. He would get her really excitable and thats when the odd nip would occur. Ruby gave him quite a nasty nip on the cheek which was dreadful and scared us to death! It was because our son had played too roughly with her and she just did what came naturally to defend herself, sometimes she'd just nip and mouth in play as puppies do, but more so with our son. We realised that we must not leave the two of them alone together AT ALL until our son learned how to behave around her.

We spoke to our son regularly about his behaviour around the dog, getting him to 'stand like a tree' if she was excited and nipping at his ankles, that way she got bored with him and left him alone. Get your daughter to do the same, stand really still with her arms crossed and count to ten, I feel certain your pup will bore of her lack of activity and leave her alone. She should do this every time pup gets too boistrous around her, then pup gets lots of praise from you when she calms down. Dont leave them alone together if possible until BOTH of them can be trusted. If your little girl gets pup too excited seperate them till things calm down a bit.

We did this, and very quickly saw alot of improvement, our son now respects Rubies space and understands that play should mean throwing a ball or similar, NOT climbing all over her and encouraging her to chase him. They have a wonderful relationship now and are a joy to see together. We are first time dog owners so Im no expert, but it worked for us, I hope it helps you :)

Helen

Hi everyone, thanks for your advice, I have spoken to the behaviourist today who told me that [1] we should raise Daisy's profile in the eye of the dog, i.e. training, feeding etc., but also [2] for them both to learn their limits around each other, we have spoken to her about her teasing him, over fussing him [i.e. invading his space], and also to praise him when he settles down with her, as already suggested by some of you. It's funny what you've said about each of us having a different role, Buster definitely sees me as the boss, my husband as fun man but always do as your told, my oldest son as his best friend in the world, and my middle daughter is the one who secretly lets him on the settee when we're not around - I know, I've caught them. I hope that I can make him see Daisy as the one to be protected, rather than just as a pain in the butt!!!

Gemini

And they say dogs are stupid? They know which way is up!
:)