I've thought long and hard about posting on this topic as I'm afraid it might result in flaming/bringing up the trolls - so Admin, if you think it will - then do the necessary!

As one of our anniversary presents, we were given the book Technique of breeding better dogs by Dr Dieter Fleig, most of which we're finding interesting and informative. Dr Fleig is described as a highly respected world authority on dogs, well known for bull terriers.

However, I do have a problem with his chapter on stud dogs, and I do hope that what he is writing was written a long time ago - I'm not sure about when this book was first published (just discovered 1st printed 1992). After discussing the age that a stud should be used he states:
"Let us take another look at the UK. A promising young dog is often given a chance to mate a bitch as early as possible, perhaps at six, or maybe at nine months. It is an utter superstition that a dog's sperm is unfertile the first time he mates. The very fact that this promising young dog has been allowed to reproduce himself but when discussing stud dogs makes it possible to assess his hereditary qualities by the time he is eighteen months old. His own progeny are his best recommendations..........
..........Another glance towards England: if possible the very promising young dog is not mated to any bitch, but rather to his dam, his sister, or if necessary his half sister. Inbreeding is the surest way to bring to light the qualities and shortcomings of a strain...............The young dog who has proved his worth in this intensely inbred litter will make an intersting mate for many bitches."

If this does go on, how can breeders justify it? The young dog cannot have had any of the tests that we all advocate as absolutely necessary - and the author himself says that breeding from a young bitch before she is fully mature will halt the process of maturity - and if the young dog is bred back to his mother, she will be having a second litter within a twelvemonth.

And what about the resulting puppies? Granted, they may be excellent - but from what I have always understood inbreeding can bring out the worst as well as the best aspects in the puppies.

I find it hard to accept that this goes on - please reassure me that it doesnt!

Margot

I have often read that a young potential stud dog should not be used before he is 10 months, then only about every 2 months after that till he's about 18 months. The first mating should always be with an older, experienced bitch. So I believe what this man says should be taken with a pinch of salt.

It has to be remembered, however, that inbreeding cannot create genetic problems or benefits - it will expose what is already there. 'Test-mating' is often the only way to discover what recessive genes are in a strain - but you have to be prepared to cull if it all goes pear-shaped.

I feel this man considers dogs to be mere livestock, rather than companions also.

Yes - I too felt that he approaches his dogs as "livestock" not family members - and I couldn't even contemplate going along with what he says in this respect - maybe one has to become a "hard professional" to follow what I would consider to be completely unethical.

Loki was 3 before her first litter - she certainly wasn't mature enough, physically or emotionally, before that time!

Apart from that chapter though, the book is informative on other bits!

Regards

Margot

Hi Margot

It is nice to know that some breeds (I believe that mine isnt alone) are trying hard to stop this sort of thing (although all were bred from a brother sister pair who were first in the country!!) I have joined the breed club and the breed society and both state as a condition of membership (and most are members of one or other or both) that........
Members will not knowingly allow their stud dogs to serve bitches of less than 2years of age or over 7 yearsof age.
Stud dog owners will hip score their stud dog.
Are responsible enough to ensure the bitch being covered meets the code of conduct.
Will not allow mating until the stud dog is 18months of age.
Stud dog owners should test eyes for soundness.
Stud dog owners will use their discretion as to the number of bitches covered.

Members will not allow their bitches,
to whelp more than once in every 12 months
Before 2 years of age
Over the age of 7
to have more than three litters during her life time.

And people wonder why they cause the same reply when they want to mate the dog and dont know what it involves!

Well that my ten pence worth!!!

see ya!
Liz

Yes Liz - its the same with the Aussies - so sensible! I'm booking Vinnie & Beau in for their hips/elbows to be scored at Cambridge, hopefully the week after their birthday (5th November). I know it's a long way off, but you have to wait for appointments at Cambridge & they only do them during Uni terms, so might as well do that now & then it's one hurdle jumped !

Rossi goes in to have his hips scored 9am on Monday, Im dreading it, it will be the first time he has ever been left anywhere.....spoilt or what? Cos I work in a pub he doesnt even get left when I work!! He does love the vet though, well so far!! It could all change! but I hope not, it fun having two dogs that love the vets, loads easier than hating it anyway!
bye
Liz

Liz

What breed do you have?

Hi Margot

Sorry for delay in replying... I have a pet Staffy, Dexter, and I show my Vizsla, Eros (Rossi).
Liz