Can I ask for the benefit of your advice, especially you GSD people, and also John seems to give out really good sound advice.
My GSD bitch pup is 7 months old. She’s been really well socialised with people & dogs. In fact she’s mad about dogs. She’s quite a bold bossy character and outgoing. She lives with 2 other dogs. One very old gentleman of about 14, and my 10 year old mongrel bitch.
A few weeks ago, when a Labrador jumped up at me to say hello, she took a little snap at it to warn it off. Then last week she told off a dog that I said hello to (jealously) taking little snaps at it. I told her to leave it and repeated the exercise (it wasn’t worried, it was a huge Bernese Mountain dog) until she accepted it, albeit unwillingly. When she was out with my husband on the lead in the woods yesterday my other bitch said hello to a dalmatian, and she rushed up and fronted the dalmatian. It’s not a big issue at the moment, a few mild incidents spread over a couple of months, but I don’t want it to develop into one. It seems to be jealous/possessive behaviour, rather than defensive (she is definitely not afraid or worried by other dogs), and I want to tackle it in the right way and nip it in the bud. My instinct at the moment is to distance her from us a little, increase her general obedience training and make sure that she’s getting the right “bottom of the heap” signals from us. My 10 year old is the dominant bitch, though the pup is always testing her boundaries and we reinforce the position by always feeding/speaking/treating the other dogs first, and in and out the house/car, always the others are first. I would really welcome your thoughts/advice on how best to handle this, as she is a great character and I don’t want to get it wrong. Thanks in anticipation

Could she be coming into season?

Thanks for your reply JG. I suppose it's possible, but I don't think so (though she is very forward for her age). The first incident when the lab jumped up at me was about 5-6 weeks ago. I'll keep a watchful eye though, just in case!

If she is on the lead a sharp jerk and a stern NO and then a treat to take her attention off the other dogs might work. If not on lead maybe a little harder to control, just try to keep her attention focused on something that is appealing to her. Good luck.

I have BSds rather than GSDs but have had vaguely similar problems.

My male was protective of me and didnt like other dogs to come between us - this was back in the 80's and i just used a ball to control him and he loved it so much i was able to chuck a ball even if he was getting a bit funny with another dog, and he would break away and race after the ball with no thought for the dog at all :)

I also was able to control him a lot with my voice, and I could use a long drawn out versoin of his name to control him if he was just starting to get a bit OTT. He was in fact a lovley dog and basically friendly, but just a few dogs set him off.

Mycurrent bitch is an only dog at present and not used to sharing ;) She used to warn and snap at her dog pals if they wanted to share a water bowl or if they came near her toy. I set up situations where she was under control and praised generouslly and treated (I also used a clicker) when she showed any acceptance and just a sharp "Ahah" if she got a bit silly, she will now share bowls and seems quite over it and, more important, is relaxed :). As i said, not quite the same but it might give you a few ideas.

Good luck

Lindsay

Actually Lindsay, the not sharing bit is EXACTLY like her. She is the same with some dogs trying to share/go to her water bowl. It's just a "GET OFF" approach - she's just like a self centred child - thinks she's wonderful (grin) (don't know how to use emoticons!.

With her two companions she will share water bowl, but if they go to it first she just has to muscle in.

Am working out some ideas for situations for training. I'm quite sure it is simply a training issue, she's got a really good character. I just need to go about it in the right way - thanks

Katrina

Just wanted to say that I am in the same boat with my 17 month old GSD bitch, Katrina - and will be interested to see what ideas you get. My bitch definitely got more "tetchy" around her season (at about 12 months of age). She has been spayed but I was told that she could be quite hormonal around her season time for a few years yet. She is an only dog and so is fairly spoilt - although she lives with two other dogs (as I share a house with my sister and her two dogs). At the moment I am trying to get her to become more independent - ie not letting her follow me from room to room, not sleeping on the bed, ignoring her when she demands attention etc. I have also tried to just walk away from her and ignore the behaviour.

Let me know if you find a method to work for you and your bitch.

Good luck!

Kirsty

Hi Kirsty

Isn't it great the ideas you can get from the people on this board. Also nice to know when someone else is experiencing same problems!

Lindsays post is interesting and sounds just the same as mine - so more training coming up!

Like yours, my girl follows me from room to room. We have a gate so she can't go upstairs, and that's the only time she wont follow. As I said in my original post, I do feel I should try and distance her a bit, and not allowing her to follow me everywher is something I'm going to work on too. She's not allowed on the furniture (only cos there's no room) Hubby = 1 chair
Me = settee Other dog = settee with me,
Third dog = other chair - therefore no room for her! That really bugged her for a while, but now she just accepts that's the way it is. I'm also going to work on her waiting while I do a little bit of training with my other dog - so she learns there are other things apart from her! It might be something she grows out of, but I know little problems can develop mighty difficulties. How long has yours been possessive of you? One thing I have done over the last couple of days is reaching down to scratch the ears or whatever of my other dogs and not her. She looked very surprised, as I am always touching her and chatting to her (and the others). I wont do this all the time, but just occasionally.

Let you know how we get on

Hi Katrina
I hope that extra training works for your bitch - what is her breeding by the way? My bitch, Flame, is already trained to quite a high standard and behaves very well most of the time - except this jealousy thing. Do you attend a training class? At my training class last night I was discussing Flame's problem with some of the more experienced GSD owners and after observing her behaviour for a while, they came to the conclusion that she gets quite nervy around other dogs in an enclosed space (such as a hall) and this is when her behaviour is at its worst and she is actually not being at all aggressive to the other dogs, but is totally non-confrontational - as she will grumble at them and then hide behind me. I am now putting her on Skullcap & Valerian tablets to see if this calms her nervy behaviour, and then perhaps she will feel more relaxed and therefore less threatened by other dogs. I will let you know if it works.
Kirsty

Hi Kirsty

She's from Bozeta Vision of Night & Kenyee Elegance. She's a coloured long hair.

She has done her puppy training, and I am waiting for the next class (waiting list) which I am going to do with her. She also attends an agility class once a week. She's not allowed to do very much but learn the commands, and learn to be around other dogs without being too distracted - eventually. She does a really excellent wait, but she LOVES other dogs, so her problem isn't nerves. She is an exceptionally confident dog actually. We were at a GSD rally the other week and she was laying on the floor with loads of dogs stepping over her without a care. Her thing really seems to be possessive/protective. It's a very minor and occasional incident at the moment, and when she reacts possessively, its just a little nip near the nose to let them know that's MY mum, or thats MY water (almost an "air" nip), although she did face up to the dalmatian. I just wouldn't want to see it escalate, so I'd like to work on it now. Has Flame always done it?
So I'm not going to make a big deal of it, but want to do lots of little things to try and counter it. Obviously when she does do it I'm going to tell her leave it, so she knows I don't approve, and just lessen her importance a little bit (so hard to do). I'll let you know how it goes. Let us know how Flame gets on too.
Katrina

Hi Katrina

You sound like you are doing all the right things with your bitch and are keeping her well stimulated. Increasing your obedience training with her will strengthen your overall control and give her the guidance in how she behaves through your commands.
Correcting her when she displays this jealous nipping will teach her that this behaviour is undesirable, however natural it seems to her to do it. Eventually she will learn to suppress this urge and hopefully the nipping will die out altogether rather than escalate into anything more serious.
Firm, consistent and fair handling reaps its rewards :)
Lara x

Thanks Lara
I am now beginning to feel comfortable that I am doing the right things, having had some helpful replies from the board, and I am looking forward to continuing her obedience training, and your reply makes me think too that I'm on the right track. Thanks for your help
Katrina

Thanks for your reply Katrina. No Flame hasn't always acted this way, she was an extremely outgoing pup - not afraid of anything and her nerves seemed to come with her first season and have gradually got worse. 99 times out of 100 it isn't a problem and she is fine - she too LOVES playing with other dogs, just seems to think they shouldn't come too close to me :-/ She was well socialised with other dogs and people and only ever had two scary-ish incidents as a pup that may make her wary of other dogs - and neither were too bad, so I am not sure whether I could have done anything to prevent the way she now behaves. I am building up her confidence through training (we also do agility) and I am going to continue to lessen her dependence on me - and see how we go :-)
Look forward to hearing how your pup gets on - what is her name by the way? :-) Do you have any pics?
Kirsty

Hi Kirsty, her name is China and she is quite a character! I have lots of pics, but not a scanner! I'm waiting for some to come back from developing (with some high hopes) and then I'm going to send some to Alan who runs GermanShepherdCorner. I have also sent him some of my GSD bitch pts late last year, to place with my little tribute to her. She was the love of my life and I miss her so.
So if you leave it a few weeks and then have a look on the site, hopefully she'll be there, quite a few people now have put pics of their dogs on there, and perhaps you could too and I could see Flame.

When did Flame have her first season? I will watch her behaviour then. Interestingly Jeangenie asked if she was coming into season - so there could definitely be a link. As China is a companion, my intention is to have her spayed after her first season, so this too could affect her behaviour (hopefully for the better). Touching wood, China has had no bad experiences with other dogs (yet) and I'm hoping it stays that way. She's had the occasional warning, which has been good for her, but nothing more serious.
Katrina

Forgot to include the link:
http://groups.msn.com/GERMANSHEPHERDCORNER

China sounds lovely Katrina :-) Flame's first season was at 10 months. I have now been on to the German Shepherd Corner - thanks for the link as I had never seen that site before. You can see pics of Flame at :
http://community.webshots.com/user/kirsty4172
Kirsty

Hi Kirsty

The GermanShepherdCorner site is really new. So any new visitors I'm sure will be very welcome.

I've had a look at Flame. She is absolutely gorgeous. She puts me in mind very much of my lovely girl pts last year (Blue). China is much darker (call her the dark destroyer at the moment!) I was also interested to see Kenwu Angelic Lady, is she yours too? The reason I was so interested was that one of China's Grandparents on her mothers side is a dog called Kenwu Bromios, and I am really interested in her forebears. I've found some of them on websites and it's great to look at the lines or even the actual dogs.

Katrina

Hi,
I have four dogs, one of whom (a bitch!) is very protective/possessive of me, not with the rest of our dogs, but with 'outsiders'. She's not happy if another dog gets too close to me. I have found the best way to deal with her and avoid scenes is to get her to 'sit'. I concentrate on her, and because she is now hooked on me, I can praise her because she is ignoring the other dog.

It sounds weird, but it works. It might work with yours, too.
:)

Hi JeanGenie
Weird is good! How old is she (is she GSD?). Whilst China can do a beautiful sit she is still so puppyish other things can get in the way of her attention, and this is one of them! At the moment, the chances of me getting her to sit and pay attention to me while another dog is within 10 feet of us is zero! I hope the next obedience class starts soon, as I think this will help a great deal. In any case I am going to start to increase her obedience training at home.
China isn't "possessive" of me with our other dogs, but always wants to muscle in and push them out of the way (my other GSD was the same, so I think its a bit of a shepherd thing). She is a little possesive of food and toys, but not in an aggressive way.
Thanks for the tip

Hi Katrina, no she's not a GSD, she's a dalmatian, and 8 years old now :o so I don't think she's going to grow out of it! She's a most extraordinary animal for her breed - she's extremely obedient, and very intense and focussed....not characteristics they're renowned for!
:)

You're right, those are the characteristics of a GSD though are you sure someone didn't paint her white and add spots!

If it helps, just to add a bit more - when i set up a situation, i remained very calm and normal and set it up with dogs she already knew as friends who would not react, in her case a male Flattie and a male Beardie and a bitch Lab :)

Loose lead, and started off with the other dog nearby whilst she was near her bowl. So maybe the other dog was say, 10 feet away and she got praised very quickly verbally and clicked and treated. Over a few days move the other dog closer and so on, working always on what your dog is telling you. I teach a lot with my voice too so that the dog gets a bit of feedback :)

I tried to be aware of her "critical distance" - if she started to snap i felt i had maybe pushed her a bit too much, it didnt' matter as the situation wasn't at all serious, IMO for my dog and my circumstances ;) Ideally I guess I would have got the other dog closer and closer and her critical distance would have lessened as she became more tolerant and understood what was required. I did go a bit too fast but it was fine, we got there. She now shares like a good girl <g> :)

I am sure you will get there, and i agree too that working on the general obediecne side and everything you are doing is adding to the control and your dog's attitude. Best of luck!

Lindsay

what happens if the dog doesn't snap or give a warning though and just attacks, no time to say NO, also when my dog was doing this he wouldn't take any notice of me because he had flipped! he hurt my gsd pup quite a lot in the few seconds it took to happen

Good question Jacki ... again through obedience training like my post above but pay particular interest to any triggers that may set your dog off with his aggressive attacks and try to intercept them.
I could use one of my own dogs again as an example because I've had this irritating behaviour off him. If he was left to his own to make a decision on how to react to a situation then invariably he would choose to pile in, for whatever reason or simply because he enjoyed being aggressive. Given the same situation then a low verbal reminder from me like 'Oi Behave' or 'I'm watching you!!' or even 'No!' would let him know that I was there and his actions were being monitored closely. I still gave him the freedom of choice because I wanted to resolve this problem but my warning followed by his 'assault' was instantly followed by my correction!. He soon learned that my warning was deterrent enough and he was rewarded for good behaviour. Sometimes now he looks at me first for a cue when he's unsure which is something that not so long ago he wouldn't have dreamed of.
If you watch your dogs behaviour closely then there usually is time to say NO even if its when a dog/person/whatever is in the distance or when another dog enters the room etc.... It may take a bit of time but it can be done.
Lara x

Absolutely right, Lara. It's up to us as the owners in charge to be alert and aware of the entire situation. We can't relax our concentration for a moment. That's the downside of being "the boss".
:)

That's very true JG - sometimes it gets better and then it just gets 'different'. Thought I'd cracked it with my older dog for a few years but now he's almost completely deaf and a bit daft when he's out. Fortunately when he's tottering off at full speed in hot pursuit of someone I can outrun him and catch him up or he'll just fall over by himself. He always looks startled to see me so I think he thinks it's me he sees in the distance even if I'm just behind him when he takes off :rolleyes: :D
Lara x

Jacki if a dog launches in and is really serious (not just noisy but biting and causes injury) then the situation is not at all the same as mine :) My bitch was just protesting a bit, it was not a serious attack, and she basically adores other dogs.

I think your question illustrates exactly for me why we all have to be so very careful and responsible when giving any advicei, esp. re aggression in any form. All dogs are not and DO not respond the same.

Most dogs do give a warning, it may be just stiffening but can be hard to see. If a dog is really aggressive then i personally would rrecommend seeing an experienced trainer or behaviourist who has a proven record for aggression.

Lara I have a great picture in my head of what you have just described LOL :D

Best wishes
Lindsay

That exactly describes my old Polly, Lara! She was 15 when she was helped off this mortal coil, and I can still picture her hobbling at full speed (with hind legs going at a different rhythm to her front ones!) into the distance.
Fond memories.
:)

Thanks everyone. Some very interesting thoughts and experiences. I do want to stress that China's possessive/jealous behaviour is very mild, and at the moment very, very occasional. I think that the beauty of this board is that you get plenty of information, and you take and use what suits you, your dog and your situation if it's logical, positive and feels right. Sometimes it's just a case of "reality checking" your own current train of thought on a problem. I am going to work on China's general obedience training and correct her if she gets "snotty" with other dogs. For the time being I feel that's all that's needed. One thing I have also started to complement this (and because I should) is to put her in a wait whilst I call my other dog to do a little of her obedience repertoire, and then when we've finished (don't do it for long, but will extend the time gradually) call China in for her go. Then fun!