Hello, I have 3 dogs.
Charlotte

Really Charlotte! Don't even consider breeding from her before at least her third season. Only puppy farmers and irresponsible breeders would breed them young. So don't think of doing it. That's why the KC won't register pups from such young bitches. It's unethical.

DLR documents are meaningless - that's why it's popular with unscrupulous breeders.

And if your bitch has temperament problems she's unsuitable for breeding anyway.

Not only unethical but not good for the bitch! It would be like expecting a child to have a baby!

As far as the Dog Lovers Registeration is concerned its rubbish and the only thing a thinking dog person would think if they saw it is that the breeder is a puppy farmer.

John

cant understand why its registered with the kc and the dlc, or have i got it wrong--nope it says so--i doubt anyone would register a puppy with the kennel club-----and also the dl :rolleyes: club
something doesnt sound right,

Dizzy, I was once told by someone who didn't have a clue about breeding, genetics, health screening, pedigrees etc, who had a litter by the dog down the road, that she thought it made her puppies more valuable by having them registered in two places! The pups that she produced bore minimum resemblance to the breed standard. They didn't stand a chance because her bitch was a particularly poor specimen! One of the pups cost their new owner £600 before it was 6 months old for 2 luxating patella ops!
Just goes to prove that dogs registered with DLC is bred by people who have no knowledge of breeding and/or respect for the kennel club guide lines, made in the interest of the bitch!

val--you just need to read the free adds to work out what use the DLC is, i cant believe folk fall for it, there should be a warning attatched to it !!!!
it can only be used to deceive folk who dont no any better-by telling them the pups registered!!! and what sort of breeder would use something like it,
dread to think what sort of experience -help or backup theyd get if they ever needed it, :(

Charlotte

Please do not be pressured to breed your girl just because friends say they want a puppy. You should only breed from a bitch that is a good specimin of the breed. If she has a nervy nature - then she is very likely to pass that onto her pups and so should not be included in a breeding programme. Reputable breeders would not register with the DLR as it's not worth the paper it's written on - sorry:( Enjoy your girl for your pet. Encourage your friends to look for an experienced reputable breeder. If these people were concerned about the welfare of the bitch and her puppies - they should want KC registration. It doesn't guarantee reputable breeding - but is better than nothing unlike the DLR which guarantees absolutely nothing.

People are very quick to say they would want a puppy - but when push comes to shove - most if not all will back out or expect them for virtually nothing.

The other thing you need to be aware of is that any breeding puts your bitch at risk. While most whelpings go smoothly, many don't and it is not unheard of for people to lose their bitch and the puppies so end up with nothing other than a broken heart and a hefty vets bill.

If you are keen to go ahead - follow the advice about timing but get yourself a copy of The Book of the Bitch and when you've read it several times over - you'll have a better idea of what you're in for.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear - but breeding is not something to do because other people want it - it should be because you want it.

jmho

Pam n the boys

How old does the bitch have to be for her pups to be registered with the KC?
If I did decide to breed Ella I will go back to her breeder first to discuss which sire to use (if I want to keep a pup out of the litter) and the best way to breed etc etc but I thought I'd ask the basic questions first.
The bitch that Ella was out of was 8 years old and had had 4 litters, which seems about appropriate to me. That's how many times I was thinking of breeding Ella if I did decide to mate her. I know breeding a dog is a lot of responsibility and I'm prepared to put the work in, but as many people have already told me, smaller breeds tend to mature faster than others and I would have thought that it wouldn't be so bad to breed them if they're younger.
Thanks for your help
Charlotte

I'm sorry Charlotte, but if the person who produced Ella registered the litter with Dog Lovers, then I wouldn't hold my breathe that the information that she would give you would be based on sound knowledge.
To be Kennel Club registered, the pups must be born before the bitch is 8 years old!! If Ella's Dam was 8 years old, then the pups shouldn't have been registed with the Kennel Club, because it's not fair on the bitch to mate her at that age!

val----charlotte said theyre registered with both! have to hope its a troll :(

Charlotte, if the dam of your bitch was 8 years old when she had her litter, the KC wouldn't have registered them.

Considering that you posted the following in May, Charlotte , I'm surprised that you now say
"If I did decide to breed Ella I will go back to her breeder first to discuss which sire to use (if I want to keep a pup out of the litter) and the best way to breed etc etc"

By Char123 On 13.05.03 19:37 BST [Reply]

Hi Brainless,
I got my mini smooth haired dachshund quite early, she was 1 day from 6 weeks old. The mum of the litter had 5 pups, quite large I think for a dog so small. She told me the earlier they went the better, so I followed her advice and so far have really regretted it. One of the pups in the litter went 4 days before my Ella, and the rest were due to go in the next week. Ella is now nearly 9 weeks old and still terrified of everything, I've had in my lifetime only 7 dogs, got each of them at various ages and Ella is by far the worst. Brainless where did you learn the info about them going when they're 10 - 12 weeks old? I've never heard of that before and my breeder certainly didn't inform me of it, instead she seemed quite glad to see rid of the pups.
Charlotte

Hi Val
Well thats what the breeder told me - she was 8 years old, haven't really looked at her KC documents yet although by the looks of it the pedigree is quite good.
Ella's come out of herself the last couple of days, she's still nervy but I've tried to ignore her nervousness and take her out to loads of new places. My niece has taken a real liking to her and so's been taking her up the local park etc when I haven't been able to take her for a walk.
I don't agree with Ella's breeder selling the pups so young, but she had about 6 or 7 Dachshunds there and seemed quite experienced showing me how to stand her dogs etc. She's the most experienced person that I actually KNOW when it comes to Daxie's.
Oh well, thanks for trying to help, although none of you have answered my original question:
How young can the bitch be before the KC will register her pups?
Thanks,
Charlotte

Charlotte, you've been posting on this forum, and presumably reading other people's posts as well, to realise that the KC will not register pups from a bitch who is under 12months old, which basically is from a bitch's first season. No ethical or responsible breeder would even consider it. So wait until your bitch is mature. Most breed clubs recommend that bitches should not be mated before they are 2 years old. Some of the smaller breeds can 'get away with it' at the bitch's third season.

How do you know your bitch is worth breeding from in the first place? How much show winning has she done? How close to the breed standard is she?

The bitch must be 12 months old before she is mated to be able to register the pups with the Kennel Club. I know of no reputable breeder who would consider registering their pups with Dog Lovers. That doesn't mean that it's the RIGHT age, just a general guide. Most responsible breeders would say the bitch's second season or around 2 years. Personally, and many will disagree, I feel that around 18 months in my breed is reasonable. Do look at your bitch's Kennel Club Registration and check her birthday to see if she was 8 years old at the time of whelping.

You have time on your side as your babe is very young, so plenty of time to learn. If you go to shows, (I don't know many people who work daxies!!) you will find a concentration of people who are passionate about the breed. You will learn much from those who have been involved for many years, sometimes a lifetime!! I agree that we all had to start somewhere, but there is no point in making mistakes that expierenced people can foresee, and then selling those mistakes to unsuspecting new homes. Your chosen breed has many hereditary problems. Knowledgable breeders will be able to help you avoid these, but you'll have to convince them that you have your bitch and the breeds best interest at heart, and not just be producing puppies to sell them.

Thanks Val, you've been really helpful.
Jeangenie - yes I've been posting on this forum, but, due to other commitments I cannot read every single post although I do try to read as many as I can. If I had known the answer to the question, I would not have asked it, but thank you for replying anyway.
Charlotte

I'm the same as Jean, 18 months or 3rd season, whichever comes first, is the earliest I'd go. (I have GSD's)

Hope all goes well, with whatever you decide to do, but please make sure your bitch is a good specimen. Do you show her?

Lisa

You can register a litter with a bitch who's 8 years old but you've got to have prior agreement from the KC and you've also got to give a good reason why you are breeding a bitch at this age.

Although I have a different breed and a long-living one I would not have a litter until they are 2.

Am I mistaken, or did I understand that the K.C. did not reccommend a bitch having more than 3 litters in her lifetime?

liberty

your mistaken-----i think your allowed 6 litters, although i feel thats far too many,

I stand corrected Dizzy :o
I do agree, it seems too many litters, :(

liberty

:p :p :p :p :p :p

My breed club advises no more than 4 litters in a bitches lifetime, with the reasoning that by then you should have produced something worthwhile, and if not then the bitch shouldn't be being bred from:D

I think if a bitch hasn't produced you anything decent in 2 litters, she isn't going likely to with another 2! That's my opinion but the most number of litters I would have from a bitch would be 2 and none before the age of 3.

A lot will obviously depend on breed size, litter size etc. You may not get the sex you want to keep and have to repeat a particular combination, or find a different combination produces better. You may have waited to see which litter turned out best, and then de3cided to repeat the one that geled best, or tried something else.

I just think that six litters (allowed by the KC) means that a bitch would have a litter every single year from 2 to 8 years of age. Having two to four litters would mean she had one every 18 months or two years, plenty of time to be doing other than producing.

Hi Jeangenie,
No I don't show her as of yet as she's still too young and I'm still working with her confidence issues so wouldn't want a complete stranger (and perhaps unsympathetic) to go over her.
Charlotte

Do you take her to ringcraft classes? I'm sure you'd find them helpful.
:)

well there you are you have just said it ! you dont show her because she is to young ,well if she is to young to show she sure as hell is to young to breed from, any way i dont think it will make any difference what any one of us says you have made up your mind to breed from a baby, you do know that she might die because she is far to young. but then maybe her breeder is the same ? jackie

One of the best things you could do is to join the Breed club, National and Regional. You will then receive publications and details of shows and educational events and health screening days.

You will then be able to meet qand learn from experienced people in your breed, many of whom are keen to nurture a new generation of breed enthusiast.

You asked 'How young can the bitch be before the KC will register her pups?'

Shouldn't the question be 'How old?'

Norm

The answer is between 12 months (too young IMHO) and 8 years!

Please forgive me if i'm wrong but aren't you connected with happi affie or something like that

Hello ace,
Yes Cath and I are good friends. She got banned from the forum a few months back I think but she does sometimes log on as mine which I don't mind her doing.
Charlotte

Charlotte, when I read your first post I hoped it was a wind up, but reading all the follow ups you seem serious. Several questions occur to me: 1) Why do you want to breed? Is it just because several people have expressed an interest in having a pup from your bitch? If so, forget it! We all get this from friends and family members, "Oh she is so cute, I want one just like her, can I have one of her pups when she has them" They ALWAYS sound so sincere, and vanish mysteriously when pups arrive, holidays, kids work all preclude a pup just at that time. 2) You said you thought 4 litters would be about right, so this indicates you are planning on breeding over a period of time, not just for the 'family & friends" - how much research have you put into your pup, as you said you are not particularly familiar with the details of her pedigree, it sounds like not much, so how do you know she is suitable to breed from? 3) Whilst this might be wildely unfair, it sound like your breeder is not particulary caring or reputable - no reputable breeder would let pups go so young! It is certainly against KC and ALL breed club guidelines to let pups go under 6 weeks! Your cannot insure the pups, they cant have a first vaccination, they are not emotionally mature enough to be away from their littermates. It can do irreperable emotional damage. If your breeder was this uncaring, odds are the pups were not properly socialised, which could be why you bitch is nervy. 4) Letting a nervy bitch (or any bitch with temperament problems) have a litter is a very bad idea. The old wives tale that a litter "will settle her down" just does not work. It is more likely to drive her into a frenzy of over protective panic, which can lead at best to a very distressing time, and at worst to her damaging/killing her babes due to frantic efforts to keep them safe. 5)If you are dead set on mating her, why the urgency to do it as quickly as possible? Assuming her pedigree/conformation/temperament are OK and you find a compatible stud dog, no reputable owner will let you use their dog on a bitch who is only a baby herself, this would set you back looking at the "pet" dogs, and relying on someone as lacking in knowledge as yourself - a sure recipe for disaster .

If you have been reading this site for a while you will already have gatherd that the sensible thing is to wait till your bitch is mature, which gives you time to research her pedigree, have her evaluated by knowledgable peiple in the breed, join breed clubs, look at potential dogs, and only then decide if you should go ahead and have a litter. Mini Dachsis can have first seasons at 6 months, by 18 months she could be having her 3rd season, I would say this is the VERY earliest age you should consider mating her.

Remember that no litter is without risk to the bitch, and a very early litter can offer more chance of risk (as, of course, can a very late one). Did you ever follow up on the suggestion that you check out you bitch KC reg. and check her mothers age, and why on earth she should be both KC and DL reg? Something seems just no right there. Sorry if this seems very harsh, but realities are not alway palatable.

bye
Gwen

Gus is 8 months old and I wouldnt even take the person seriously if I was approached and told that they would love to have their bitch mate with him or would love a pup by him !! :(
Before 12 months of age the majority of dogs havent even finished growing and changing in looks so how can you or they possibly know what you have ??? Yes , you love your bitch and you will obviously be biased to a point thinking your bitch is perfect but you have to be objective and step back .
I find this post very disturbing actually that you would even consider before 12 months . Hvave you read anything about breeding at all ? I have never bred , do not intend to do so , and I have never had a bitch but even I know the suitable ages for a young bitch to be bred from
Lel

Char, friends? You/she told me she was your mother :rolleyes: What a tangled web you weave. Trolls are Trolls no matter how many name changes they have.

Ohh Admin, isn't your Mother your bestest friend :P :D :P :D :P

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive!"

-Sir Walter Scott, Marmion 1808.

:D

im freinds with my mother too :D :D :D :D !!!!!!!!!!

I also thought char 123 and happi affie were related by earlier posts that i have seen which is why i asked and also they both always seem to start topics that now how can i put this politely 'ummmm well oh sod it' are full of bull ****. and are usually guaranteed to wind people up. jmo folks

How about ONLY considering breeding from her if she had an outgoing, friendly temperament, is at least 2yrs old, is a very good representative of the breed and the fact that YOU would like to keep one yourself. NOT breeding to supply a pet market and because other people have asked you to, YOUR responsibility lies with your dog, not them!
Dawn.

Maybe it was a genuine question and char123 was asking because he/she didn't know the answer, simple as that!

Char123 has a reputation to maintain Charlie - its one of asking daft questions to provoke responses.

Char - get real and grow up. You ask the sort of questions I'd expect of a five year old :rolleyes:

Thankyou for enlightening me Chloe, i think i will mind my own business.

I just hope no-one thinks Char123 is me :(

Nope :D :D :D