Just wanted to ask the knowledge of wealth out there a quick question.

If a dog is being shown and does not move , i mean digs it's heals in and refuses point blank to go anywhere, should it be placed?

It's just that we saw one like that at a show and it went on to win BOB and G1 even though it did not move for either class, it was the same judge doing the breed class and the group.
The other people in the breed and group were most put out and upset.
I am not an expert how can you get i good idea of the whole dog if it does not move atall.

Peanuts

A judge is only allowed to judge what he or she sees on the day, not what he or she knows from previous experience about the dog. Looked at like that then the judge cannot see movement so unless the judge is saying that movement it totally unimportant then to place the dog would be a very strange decision!!!! Even if there was only one dog in the class I would have thought it was a case to withhold.

Regards, John

ive seen dogs refuse to move in there class and take best in show!!!!- i can understand why other exhibitors would be upset, the only way id ever see it happening that i could think was fair would be if the rest of the dogs present where so shocking that the one not moving has everything else as an advantage, --so if thats not the reason, then put a big cross next to the judges name, and dont make the same mistake twice,

Sounds a bit odd doesn't it. Placing a dog so highly that won't move ??

I've attended confirmation and movement seminars and have been taught that if your brain is connected to your hands, when going over a dog, because you know where everything is placed you should already know how this dog is going to move before it moves. Same applies if you can't get to go over the dog but can see it move, you should know where everything is placed from looking at the movement, although I imagine this would be harder with a full coated breed. :-)

Still would have thought you'd want to see the dog move though regardless and if it didn't you might feel it deserves a place but surely not as high as G1 or BIS

Would have thought you should use the movement you see to check the conformation you found under your hand, or more likely you use your hands to see why the dog does not move correctly. As movement is part of the standard it is important to see it and no amount of assesment with the hands will do.

It is like placing a dogs whos ears or tail you can't see, you just would not do it. IMO the dog should not be placed however nice it looks if you can't see it move as you have not been able to see if it meets the breed standard. It does not matter how nice it looks it must move. It could be the judge had seen enough when the dog entered the ring, but still dodgey to give it G1, makes the judge look a fool in the BIS ring.

I sure can sympathize with you. I sure don't think it should have placed either but stranger things have happened at shows. When I started showing over 25 years ago a friend told me this little saying and it has stood me in good stead:
There are days you'll win when you should win.
There are days you'll lose when you should have won.
There are days you'll win when you should have lost.
There are days you'll lose when you should have lost.

This goes for every dog that is entered. In Canada a judge can only judge 25 dogs per hour so when you have paid your entry fee the only time that is truly yours is 2.4 minutes of the judge's time. The best you can hope for that you get a good look during your 2.4 minutes. We also can lay complaints against a Judge with the Canadian Kennel Club if we are willing to fill out a complaint form and put down the fee of $50.00.

I been to many shows where what you describe in your post has happened. All you can hope for that the dog doesn't make it to Best in Show. TOMORROW IS ANOTHER DAY AND A DIFFERENT JUDGE!

Margaret :) Canada