Hello All
Both husband and I are seriously considering getting a puppy. The issue is that we both currently work full time….I know that this is a contentious topic but I welcome everyone’s views as to whether it would be the right decision or not and if it could work, whether you have any past personal experience/tips/things you would do differently.
We have both started researching this (looking at costs, insurance, training required etc) as we understand that its a poss 15yr commitment and not something to be decided upon unless its really thought through. Regarding possible breed, we have nieces aged 3 and 5 who visit regularly and we hope to have a family of our own in a few years so would be looking for a dog who was v good with children. We have thought of taking a dog from a rescue centre but we contacted one to enquire and were told that we wouldn’t be suitable to take a dog from them as we both work..

We are both prepared to invest all necessary time/energy and have endless love to give to a puppy - we don't have demanding/hectic social lives and would be taking the training very seriously and also take the dog to weekly training classes.

My husband has lots of experience with puppies and dogs and says that he has found in the past that as long as we spend lots of time at start, take the training seriously, get it used to our routine and make sure that our spare time is spent with the pup, that it should be ok to leave it (also we aren’t obsessive about keeping the house tidy and are prepared for our kitchen etc to be chewed/messed up!) I’ve never had a dog before – I’ve looked after dogs, so although I share my husbands belief that we could give a dog a secure and loving home, as I’ve never actually owned one, I do have slight worries as to leaving it during the day (which is why I suppose I am posting on here…!)

Our initial thinking is that my husband would take 2 weeks off when we first get the puppy, then I would take 2 weeks off so there would be someone about full time for first 4 weeks. During this time we would work on getting the puppy housetrained and used to being alone for longer periods of time.

The plan would be for 30 min walk in the morning then be left from 8.30am - 1pm then I could be home for 30 mins to let out/feed at lunchtime, then home for 5pm/5.30pm when we would take it for a long walk/train/play - then with the dog at the weekends. As a back up, we have a good friend who lives closeby and only works mornings/evenings who would be able to help out, and other family members who also live v close and are dog lovers and I know would help. We have a house with big kitchen and secure back yard/garden for a dog to play in.

We are really thinking hard about this as are both animal lovers and it would break my heart to think that a dog is not happy with us. I also think that its an interesting discussion, especially as society is changing and people now tend to have jobs for most of their lives. I expect that, although I hope to work p/t if we have a family in a few years, I will probably always be working - so does that mean that only those that don’t work can have a dog?

As I say, I am interested in any views – especially any of you have or had a dog and worked, what your experiences were of it.

Thanks again.

I'm sorry, but 8:30 to 1:30 is a stint of 5 hours plus... and then to be left again in the afternoon is way way too much time alone for a small puppy. I can see you have looked into it, and put a lot of thought into it - and I understand you are not worried about your house being chewed - but I'm afraid thats not enough. Dogs get destructive when they are unhappy - and that amount of time alone is going to result in an unhappy dog :(

Hi, it sounds to me like you would make ideal dog owners, you have obviously given it a lot of thought.
As regards to it being left I am sure it will not be a huge problem with all your friends and family living nearby. I dont think you will be leaving it for to long a period possibly only 4 hours which is not to bad if you make sure it gets plenty of exercise and play time when you are home.
I say go for it, what type do you plan on getting?

You think five hours in the morning and four hours int he afternoon with only half hour for company is acceptable? I must be really behind on current thinking then, because I think its completely unfair to expect a puppy to spend that amount of time alone.

You may not be 'ideal' dog owners due to your work commitments, but you have obviously put a lot of thought into this, which is more than a lot of people at home all day do.
You will have a problem with a young pup, but I have always found that routine and consistancy is the key. Be careful if you are both with it for a month and then suddenly leave it, use that month to get it used to being left for longer periods knowing you are coming back to it.
Dependant on the breed, would it be possible to erect a kennel and run for when you are at work and bring it in for the evening and overnight. You would need to get it used to the kennel from the start. I found myself having to leave mine for longer periods than I would have liked at one time and this was an acceptable solution to the dogs and myself.
Remember - Quality time is much better than quantity. I have never understood rescue kennels not letting dogs go to people who work, by working they have the money to look after them and they on the whole have a better life than the one they left behind, be it their previous home or the rescue kennels, which lets face it a large rescue kennels do not give individual attention 24/7. However, I do think a puppy would suit your circumstances better as they will accept a new routine quicker.

As for the breed, list those that appeal and come back to us, with any luck you will find people on here with the specific breed who can advise you to thier suitability.

Good luck
Sandra

I'm afraid I disagree entirely. I think a lonely puppy out in a run and kennel will more than likely be vocal, causing problems with neighbours. I also see that although you leave yours outside, you have dogs as opposed to a singular puppy/dog?

I understand rescue centres not letting dogs go to people who work - because the dogs can get destructive and wreck the house, and end up back where they came from (no matter how tolerant the people say they are) Far better to sometimes wait and see if a more ideal home comes along. Just because someone has "thought it through" does not mean they will cope with a puppy any better... its a shock to the system. If I was in the posters shoes, I'd get a cat for now, or an older rescue, like a Greyhound.

Hi

I work full time and have a dog which I had from a pup and I would certainly say its not for everyone!!!!! Puppies are very hard work and when you come in from work you have to be ready to go again. no relaxing on the couch for the rest of the evening constant fuss, play, cuddles.

I would also say that half an hour in the day possibly isnt long enough, you would get home, feed it, let it toilet and then thats it you'd have to leave to go back to work
If you decide to go ahead I would consider a dog walker. We have one who spends at least an hour with Darcy a day.

The 4 weeks off work is a very good idea. I did that with the second week for each of us as mornings only so that to start with she only had to be on her own for half a day to ease her in gently.

Its a hard one to decide and too many people do take the decision to lightly.

Also I would add that a lot of people thing that a puppy is just like having a smaller dog, ITS NOT
three of my friends who were considering a puppy changed their minds after having Darcy for only a few hours.
She's a real handful!!!!!!!

Hi,
It's great to come across people who do their research before they get the pup, rather than afterwards!

I could be a little over-protective of my puppies, but I always ask people how long they would be prepared to leave a toddler in a playpen alone? A puppy is as much of a handful as a toddler, after all.

And when the dog is a housetrained adult, I try never to leave them longer than it takes me to need the loo.

Hi there,

Both me and my partner work full time, and also own a playful, happy
and loving 8½mth mini schnauzer.

Time and time again this subject is raised, and you will find certain people will always say you should not get a dog. However, I think
it is farcical to expect the only people to have dogs should be
part time, retired or unemployed!

Our typical day is like this;
6.30 - my boyfriend gets up, lets Rufus out and changes his water etc.
8.15 - I take him for 20 min walk, and then play at home for 10 mins
1pm - come home, take him for 20 min walk, then home for cuddles, play etc for 15 mins
4.30pm - my boyfriend comes in and waits till I get home at 5.10pm
and then off for a long walk together to park, or fields.
Rufus is then with us till bed time.

This is EVERY DAY, and I consider this to be far more quality time
then some people who are home with their dog all day.

Rufus is happy, healthy and content and is left with lots of toys, chews and clean fresh water in a large kitchen.
Nothing has been chewed or damaged, and his training is excellent.

I really think you should go for it, take lots of time to work out
how much it is going to cost you and which breed is right for you, and see if you can arrange someone to walk the dog for a while during the day - and ignore small minded people who think they are always right.

Good Luck, Louise

Small minded??! If you happened to see the amount of dogs that end up in rescue because they become destructive, and lonely, and vocal because they are left for an unreasonable amount of time, you might think twice about calling people small minded.

Your puppy is 8 and a half months old, he hasn't even got to the destructive stage yet! I wouldn't rule out someone having a dog and working full time (if you see previous posts) but 9 hours with 30 mins in the middle is not enough imo

I agree with you Chloe. You can work full time and have a dog - but only if the dog does get enough time devoted. I too think 9 hours with only a half hour stint as the norm day to day routine is not enough. It is good to see someone being honest though and doing ther homework first.

Perhaps a bit more patience is what's called for until timing is better for you. I waited 15 years before I went part time before getting my boys.

jmho

Pam n the boys - and I am not small minded either:D

The original poster has said that family and friends will help out, just because we don't all live 'ideal' lives and have to work for a living shouldn't stop that person having a dog or indeed the dog having a good home.

As I said quality time is more important and the commitment to put this in is a must, nice walks morning and evening with long weekend ones (when the pup is old enough) are better then someone being at home all day and not spending any time with the pup.

These people seem to have thought this through and are doing their homework and if both owner and dog are going to enjoy the time they do spend together, then having to work for a living should not be a barrier. I agree, in an ideal word we would all like to be at home all day with our dogs, I am lucky mine come to work with me although saying that, they are laying around all morning and afternoon with a break in my lunch hour, they soon get used to it. After all the breeder they will probably end up buying the pup from could well have their dogs in kennels all day not receiving the attention mine get when I am with them.

Sandra

I agree - we don't all live "ideal" lives - but there are some circumstances that are just not right for a dog, and if you can't adjust those circumstances then you shouldn't get a dog because you want one, you should consider the dog. I work 12 hours a day, from home, probably more...but the point is that Willis is not alone all day, and is walked every day without fail at lunchtime (I don't have to walk first thing in the morning when its freezing, or last thing at night when i'm tired). This means that I can go out at night without feeling guilty, and that at 8pm I'm not training, but chilling out with a glass of wine.

If you leave a puppy all day every day, and go to work, you then have to walk, train and play with the dog when you get home, you also have to forfiet your social life, as you will feel too guilty to leave the puppy again. Most people simply don't appreciate what they are letting themself in for commitment wise.

Please remember that the majority of the posters on this board do not work full time :-)Many people that do work full time and successfully have a dog are too busy once they are home, with their dog etc to be on here giving support and information on their side of things ;-)

just my opinion to keep things in perspective :D

Just what do you base that opinion on Sarah??

As it so happens I do work a lot of hours during the day, in fact I am self-employed. The fact that a computer is used for a lot of my work means that I can pop in here at odd times on and off during the day.

With a membership the size that this board has I would be very very surprised if the majority don't work in some way or another :-D

It sounds as you have it all sorted out Louise and are the exception to the rule. Thats fine and I congratulate you for it. But that does not mean that everyone will make a success of doing what you do.

I have known and heard of too many problems where pups have been sold to fulltime workers, to ever consider selling one of mine into that situation, unless the situation was as in my other post.

I am sure most people go into something like that with all the good intentions in the world, but things can and do go wrong, situations change, the first flush of enjoyment and commitment wears off, the pup is not a suitable temperament to stand solitary confinement and starts to destroy the house, and guess where they end up in a rescue home, because as much as we breeders try to ensure that by contracts signed, we are contacted, people tend to be embarrased by the fact that they can't cope, and would rather just pass the dog on to someone else.

I do object very strongly to being called small minded, I only post on this board what I either do or have experience of, and I can assure you that I am not small minded. I have very important rules when homing any of my puppies, and I personally would never consider a fulltime working environment.

Anyone who posts on here is doing so out of concern for dogs, and I think it is very insulting of you as a pet owner to criticise years of experience.

Louise - you are VERY lucky to have such an easy going pup. The problem with recommending to working people to go for it and get a dog is that they may not be as lucky as you :( Our pup had someone home all the time for at least the first three months, as I have two older teenage children and a husband. She required a lot of attention and despite being caged for moments when no-one could watch her, she still did a huge amount of damage. A lot of the dogs in rescue are those pups who were not easy and the owners just couldn't cope. It unfair to suggest that it is not a problem.

There are lots of things in life that I would have liked to have had or done. For whatever reason it has not been possible at that moment and I have had to wait. Some things I may never be able to do - but that's life :)

Daisy

Louise, "small-minded" is harsh. "Realistic" would be a better term.

One reason why there are so many dogs in rescue is that they are bought, with the best will in the world and all good intentions, when their owners don't realise the time they need to invest in a puppy. Like children, they don't train themselves in their idle hours, you know! No, they become bored, and very many bored dogs become destructive and/or vocal, annoying both their owners and the neighbours. Then the neighbours complain.....

An adult dog that is used to being on its own all day (such as a retired greyhound etc) can be much more successful in this situation. It's the lucky few who can make it work with a puppy.

And as they've found with children, quality time is not as good as quantity, especially with the tinies.
:)

I think it's great that you've given getting a pup so much thought. Unfortunately I also have to work full-time, although I do shift work. I have had to leave my dogs longer than I would like on several occasions over the years; but like yourself we have family who are more than happy to help out.

I have two Retreivers 14yrs and 15 months, they have a reputation for chewing, but I can assure you my kitchen and the rest of the house that they have access to are still intact, with only minor damage. Which was done in the early weeks.
Also by getting a puppy, it can get used to your routine, an older rescue dog may find it more difficult to adapt JMHO :)

Good Luck

liberty :)

Hi Vicsam

It appears that you have put a lot of thought into this, but like some of the other posters I would suggest that you do yet more thinking, what you do need to consider is that a new puppy would not be up to 30 min walks for quite a number of months, plus the housetraining issue. It will take quite sometime before their bladder would be strong enough to cope with such a long period of absence.

You say that you have friends and family nearby who would be willing to help out, how about the puppy going to one of those for the longest shift (i.e.) the morning one and only being left for the short time in the afternoon. Even if this was only until the pup was old enough to be left for longer periods.

The only time I have ever sold a pup to a full time working home was when I personally knew that it was going to be a shared puppy, it was going to their parents during the daytime and with them evening and overnight, plus weekends.

This has worked out beautifully for both families.

If your family are dog lovers then they may be prepared to do something like that for you and the pup.

I think what you will see from this post is that there is a 50/50 split on what is best. My input into this is that if the plan doesn't work out then you are stuck and will you be prepared to change your lifestyle to suit rather than rehome the puppy

By the way mine are left for 4 hours then 4 hours and seem perfectly happy (and when I only had one she was perfectly happy) but it can depend on the breed

Good luck with whatever you decide

I work and I agree with Lady Dazzle re importance of getting help [preferably from trusted family members]. We thought a great deal before getting our corgi and discussed our situation with the breeder. Took time off work, enlisted the in-laws and exhausted ourselves to get him through his puppyhood unscathed.
Our dog therefore has an extended family and is well adjusted except for a teenage sexual aggression issue which we are getting help with. He is only at home alone for 4 hours twice a week - at all other times he is with us or one of his regular carers.
He comes everywhere with us, e.g. garden parties, the pub, the shops, sometimes to work in my office, to friends' houses and on holidays etc etc. - I spend huge amounts of time with him at home and on walks. I have a very senior role at work but I'm lucky my boss has a dog and understands if I have to go to the vet, work from home etc.

Once you have solved the problem of the dog's emotional health your big problem is going to be yours - your perspective on life will change dramatically and you will find yourself thinking constantly about the dog, missing him terribly and going on Champdogs to ask questions. If you have a computer your background wallpaper and that of everyone else in the office will consist of photos of your dog. Please do take this into account when you make your decision.
regards
c

well im not to sure about puppies and working all day but what i can say is that expecting a puppy to be fully toilet trained in 4 weeks is very unrealistic.

Viscom, As you can see you will get a huge variation of opinions on this site. Whether or not this will work for you will depend a lot on the dog. My daughter has a golden that she has had since it was 6 weeks old. She works 8:30 to 5:30 Monday – Friday with an hour lunch in between. She comes home and lets the dog out on lunch. The dog started out in a crate when she first got her. My daughter enlisted the help of a trainer to help her through the beginning stages of ownership. The trainer suggested the crate and said that a puppy should never be allowed to go unsupervised. We were afraid in the beginning to crate it so much, but she explained to us the crating was very misunderstood and that a dog in the wild spends 80% of it’s time in a den, not in the wilderness and that a dog feels more secure in a crate then being left out. Don’t ever use it for punishment though. And leave the crate open at night so the dog can sleep there but is not locked in all the time.

Secondly a puppy sleeps most of the time when you first get it. I have a litter of 11 right now and I would say that they are awake no longer then 4 hours out of every 24. Just like a baby. Giving it training and quality attention is what will make the difference. Yes it would be better for the pup if you were home all the time but in many cases that just can’t happen. People who have children many times would rather stay home, but life doesn’t always give us that option. If you want the puppy and accept that it will take work, time and patience and be willing to do all three and you try to pick a bred that is not overly active your chances of it working out fine are good. There is always a chance of getting a dog that is harder and that won’t adapt. However that can happen with a dog you spend 24/7 on too. I would try to have family help out so that the dog was let out every 2 hours for the first 2 months as they only hold their wee for 4 hours at a time in the beginning. But other then that a dog run in the yard is also a great way if you can’t be with the dog.
Good luck to you what ever you decide. My daughters golden is now 2 years old and is a happy healthy dog who still sleeps in her crate every night (door open) and since she was 14 months old is allow full access to the whole house without any problems. She did however stay crated until then. No problems seemed to arise from it. She was let out every two hours until she was six months from then until she was 15 months she was let out during lunch. She runs and plays like any other dog and when she had to go back in her crate all we would say is “time to go home” and she would get in her crate herself without any resistance at all. One comment it took a week in the beginning to get her comfortable with the crate. She didn’t like it the first day at all.

I wouldn't sell a puppy of mine to a home where it was crated for two hours at a time, then crated again. Not a chance. Sorry.

I have never heard such a terrible way to bring up a puppy, how on earth can it develop properly locked in a cage for so many hours (and I am a cage advocate - when used properly!) Is that really the kind of life you hope your puppies will go to?

All too often we are having these posts, good kindly people, but they have already decided haven't they and whatever council they get against it they are always keener to hear from those who will say it can be done. Yes it can be done but for many it will fail and even if the dog behaves sufficiently well to ease life along as you grow to love your dog won't you feel more and more regretful for causing it to live this kind of life.

Pammies right Viscam you should be patient or if you cannot what about have a good look at your life, you say you plan to go part-time when you have children, so presumably to plan then to have a few less material things well perhaps if you feel strongly enough about dogs you could down size now. Think long and hard if those family and friends are going to be as commited as you in helping on an every day basis, if they haven't got dogs of their own perhaps that would tell you that commitment to any dog let alone yours is unlikely. You are right modern life has changed but dogs unfortunately have not, I urge you to think long and hard about how you will feel if this fails.

Yes dede,

People who have children often had to work, I was one of them, but my children always had someone to be with them, when I wasn't there. I did not subject them to being shut in the house with no supervison for hours on end.

As for caging a Golden Retriever as your daughter was advised to do, for goodness sake that amounts to no more than cruelty in my opinion, they are lucky they had a good tempered one, because that could have changed its temperament for ever.

In fact a few years ago there was woman brought before the courts locally to me for doing just that as she was found guilty of animal cruelty.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with the advice given in your post.
Firstly, the crate is not a cage to put the puppy in until you have 5 minutes to play with him, then put him away again. It's a tool to aid housetraining and somewhere safe for the puppy for *short* periods when he cannot be supervised. Even if a wild dog spends 80% of his time in his den, that's his choice. He's not locked in there on his own. He can go outside to relieve himself when he needs to; he can socialise with the rest of his pack (who I assume would be with him).

Yes, a puppy sleeps for much of the time when you first get him. The original poster stated that they would have 4 weeks at home when they first got the dog. With Dylan, I have found that it was those first few weeks that he slept most. Now at 17 weeks, he is awake for much of the day, with a couple of snoozes during the day. This is the time that the poster will be leaving the dog to go back to work.

I'm sure a Golden Retriever up to 15 months must have been *very* unhappy being locked away for so long. :( I hope it was a very big crate.

Sarah

What a poor, sad golden that must be. :( Does the breeder know that the dog is being so restricted for so many hours? She would have more freedom to move in a kennel.

We were afraid in the beginning to crate it so much, but she explained to us the crating was very misunderstood and that a dog in the wild spends 80% of it’s time in a den

But its not restricted in its den, having to wait to go for a wee, or wait for someone to let it out to stretch its legs is it??! I hope you are not giving this kind of advice to your potential puppy owners, because if one of your puppies gets sick, or its bones don't grow properly from being so restricted - you will be liable I am sure

My concern mainly is you have stated that you wish to start your own family in a few years time - no problem with the family part, but what about the dog ? Some dogs do get jealous and you will not have the same amount of time to spend with your dog as you did previously. I know some folk can work a family and a dog, my question is can you ? And would you planning to return to work afer your baby is born ? Again leaving les and less time for the dog. I am sorry if I sound harsh or uncaring but at the moment my main concern is for the puppy you may well be about to purchase.

Margaret

In an ideal world, no dog owner would work. However as I've already said, the Guest has thoroughly thought through the main points of dog ownership. Should they then go on to have a family, as many dog owners do, the dog get it's chance to socialize with the younger ones, or do people suggest these dogs are p.t.s.

Sadly we don't live in the ideal world, people need to work and perhaps we should support them.

liberty

Maybe they do, Liberty, but they don't need to have a dog and no amount of support will make it work only luck and I would not trust my puppy to luck, honesty is what is called for not wishfull thinking.