Hi folks,

Couple of quick questions about the rules printed on the JW form,

Q1)
rule 2 states:-
"One point for each First Prize awarded in a Breed Class at a Championship Show where Challenge Certificates were not offered for the breed, or at an Open Show."

does this mean if you were to win 3 breed classes in an open show, would that mean you had gained the minimum 3 points required from that one show?

Q2)
rule 3 states that:-
"One point for the award of Best of Breed at an Open Show. Only to be claimed if no Junior Warrant Points were gained by that dog by winning a Breed Class or Classes."

would I be right in thinking that if say there were only 2 dogs entered for the class then you do not claim 1 point for winning it but would gain 1 point anyway if your dog goes on to win BOB?

Can anyone out there shed some light on the subject for me?

Many thanks,

Brian.

In answer to your questions:
[1] A point gained at an open show or championship show where no CCs are on offer provided there are a minimum of 3 dogs there on the day, will count as 1 point. [2] Winning BoB counts as 1 point, if your original class had less then 3 dogs in it. This recently happened to me. However, for you to claim your 1 point for BoB, again there must have been 3 or more dogs present. So that covers your three 'open show' points.
It is very hard in minority breeds just to get breed classes at open shows, let alone a class where a youngster can compete against other juniors. It has been harder for me to get the single points rather than the champ show points, 2 class wins at the breed club champ show yesterday, six points gained but I still need 1 more from an open show!

Hi Gibbsy,
Thanks for the quick reply, the rules change that often I never know where I am!
My new pup won 1st in two open show classes at the weekend (with 3 or more in each class), thats why I was curious if both places counted, its nice to know that if I do decide to chase JW points with him then he's already gained 2 from that show.
Am I right in thinking that the rule for leaving 3 days between shows is no longer in force? allowing you to gain points from two shows in a weekend?

Thanks again,

Brian.

Hi Brian

Just checked the form but it doesn't say :-( I am almost 100% sure the three day rule is still in force though

Junior Warrant

Brian,

You are right, 3 day rule is no longer in force.

M.

Doesn't that just leave people traipsing pups around shows again though :-(

Think they probably came to the conclusion that the rule didn't make a blind bit of difference - people still entered the double shows, as you couldn't be sure you'd win at either, so they'd just take the chance on having a few points they couldn't use.

M.

Knew I'd read JW's somewhere recently...you are very right :-) the whole paragraph is to be deleted :-) Do think that is a shame (think points move is logical though)

Alternatively, if they get their JW earlier because subsequent days' point can be used, they may spend less time on the campaign trail and therefore get more of a rest .............

Don't know really, think those who are determined to show at every opportunity will do it regardless, haven't got the energy myself :D

M.

You speak words of both great truth and wisdom :P Did you see the bit in the paper about people backdating them years?

Truth and wisdom, that's me ;)

Yes, saw the 5-year old JW, thought that was very strange. Bet the KC are battening down the hatches and waiting for the onslaught, although guess most people won't be organised enough to have the appropriate information - bet a fair few people will be trying it for the stud book number, though.

M.

In my breed it is far easier to get the Stud Book number than to get the Junior Warrant. During the 10 classes at Open show rule only 1 exhibit got the Junior Warrant. That was a couple of years ago, and just recently, as last year had a good crop of youngsters being shown, one more managed it before the rules relaxed, and another got it because they relaxed.

Edited 20/6/0. 3to clarify:The two recent Junior warrants both granted after the rule relaxation, one got his under the stricter rules, and the other got his earlier because of the relaxation (at 13 months) but would easily have got it under the stricter rules, as has not reached 18 months yet, and has had more Open show wins including BOB's.

Taking an averge year like 2001, we had 6 Champions made up and 11 Stud Book qualifiers (one of these was my bitch who also became a champion in the same year). There were no Junior warrant winners between 2000 and 2002. The last one was in 1999 under the stricter rules. Prior to that there were 3 in 95, 96 and 97 which was before the 3 per class, and 10 Open show classes rule.

We only get Stud Book numbers for CC, RCC and 1st and 2nd in Open class.

Both elkies that have got their JWs so far this year did so after the rules were relaxed - I know that, because I own the first outright and co-own the second with you. Raider got his at thirteen months, but would have finished it anyway under the tighter rules by sixteen months, finishing with his BOB at Melton Mowbray which gave him ten points at Open Shows. I thought the other one had done it "both ways" as well.

Yep both would have got it under the old rules, just came that bit quicker with the change.

Got that letter from the KC abvout backdated junior Warrants. Seems to be a stiock letter refering to the piece in dog World, and that the award had been rescinded, and only applied to those already with youngsters in the ring winning JW points could claim under the new rules.

Oh well will just have to be content with the two letters in front of the dogs name, rather than those behind. shame though, as under the current rules she would have had 33 points. 27 at champ shows, and 6 from Open shows, with other classes won, but insufficent dogs.

I read that bit too, and have just sent mine off hoping to get it. My bitch had well over 30 odd points, but unfortunately only 6 that counted at Open shows (we did win 10 classes inspite of foot and mouth cancellations, but four of them didn't have enough dogs, being as we are a numerically small breed). will let you all know if it slips through :D :D

Actually I think it's a shame they have changed the points system won at open shows & champ shows. When I was showing Mia as a pup & junior (2001) you had to get 10 open show points (She actually won more, even with the F & M epidemic) and I felt that the JW was worth winning as you had to win a lot of classes to get the relevant points, so basically the best of the best did so.

In my breed - Large Munsterlanders - we don't get a lot of breed classes scheduled at open shows especially in Scotland and never any puppy or junior classes, so a lot of her wins came in Graduate, Limit & Open, which meant she beat dogs older than herself.

I am trying for Curtis's now, he is 13 months old and has 13 points, 7 from open shows and 6 from Champ shows. The open show ones have been far easier to win this time & I've only had to stray into England once!