Hi board I took my bitch to the vets today and her pups are only 2 weeks old but there mums milk has dried up. although the pups look real healthy and one looks like he needs a diet as he is so big! they told me to bottle feed which i am now doing, well trying, I brought 2 different kinds of bottles and the pups will not drink from either, so now i am having to give in to them in a sringe! Is there any thing more i can do or any other bottles i can try? As they dont seem to like that either!
All advice would be helpful! thanks Lou

As my girl has a history of eclampsia I started weaning my pups at 2 weeks, have you tried that yet? This was the suggestion of my vet, she said once they are eating and drinking water, they no longer need mums milk, so I always start weaning around 2 weeks even if mum is still able to feed them! The earliest I've had to take mum away is 3 weeks and luckily the pups were eating and drinking well.

Give it a go, it's surprising how quickly they learn!

They should be able to lap now, depending on the breed, but most puppies can lap even before their eyes are open if they are hungry enough . Pedigree Puppy porrige is very good, but can be difficult to get hold of quickly so I would try some Welpi milk replacement and flaked rice for human (!) babies. About a desert spoonful of made up welpi per puppy and mix in baby rice a warm bowl. Get the consistancy of double cream, it thickens quickly and continues to thicken so make it a bit sloppier than you want and by the time you get it to the pups it will be just right! Make sure there are no lumps. I find its easier to put it in a deep saucer and let one or two puppies have a go rather than one big dish for them all, as they are unlikley to be standing steadily at this age and will probably fall in head first or roll about in it! Remove mum and offer the saucer right under the chin in the bed. Once each one is full pop it in a separate warm box so you know each one has been fed. I would offer 3 times a day the first day, and then more often if they want it up to 5 meals. I would offer a welpi drink - as much as they want at bedtime about 2 hours after the last feed to top them up for the night. Also first thing in the morning - as I doubt they can get to the water bowl - and then offer a feed if they either dont sleep afterwards or when they wake up again. They will probably "shiver and shake" quite violently afterwards for a few minutes after their first few meals. Once they have all finished let mum back in and she will enjoy cleaning them up. Dont let dried food/milk stay on the coat - though puppies often lick each other clean, you must check, as dried food/milk will take the coat off and leave bare skin in no time. Is she still stimulating them to do their business? - if not you may have to with damp cotton wool. Once you can see that their tums are working properly and there are hopefully no upsets you can start to introduce puppy complete biscuit after 3 or 4 days (I Like Arden Grange best) pre soaked in hot water and mashed into a smooth pulp with some half strength welpi or warm water. Puppies do like thier food blood heat til 3 -3 1/2 weeks or so. I wouldn't worm them til they are 21 days. Did the vet say why she had dried up so early?

Hi Millie,

If you call this number in the first instance and explain that you require Pedigree puppy weaning porriage the lady will give you the nearest pedigree pick up to you. Thay can sort out your membership details later as they generally are very helpful.

Make it up almost like water to begin with.

Her name is Silvia TEL : 01333423909

Regards Pam

Hi Board, thanks for your replies, Millie was never really a good mum and was had to get her to stay with the mums as she always ran away from there after being there for a short length of time! I tried them with lapping and they are still not quite ready, we have justtried the baby rice with whelp milk and they have took it but not from a bowl only from my finger for now! but will keep trying to get them, from the bowl, the vet wants me to see the puppies next week and we are going to worm them then! After there rice 2 out of 3 did shake but all settled down after and slept! So, so far so good although they still try and suck of mum! Do i keep making mum go in to them when i can get her in there because every chance i get she is out of there or can I just carrying on with out help from her?

I have only had one litter so am no expert but if she is willing to let them try and suckle I would let her and them,

My bitch had milk but not mountains of it till about 2 weeks. She never had what I would call boobs till the 2 week period. Hopefully someone else can advice but if they get any milk it is better than none.

I think or beleive it is very rare for them to have no milk but maybe the others could help shed some light.

Take care , fingers crossed.

Pamela

Hi, if she has any milk left I would let them feed from her every 4 hours, about 2 hours after they have had their grub - holding her still if need be so they can empty her out. If she really has dried up then there is no point.To find out - feed her a really nutritious meal, followed by a drink of Welpi if she can take it. Wait an hour then give her normal exersise or energetic play in the garden at least half an hour. then clean her up well if she is wet/muddy and then let her relax til 4/5 hours after her meal. Take her in to feed the puppies . If by then she has no milk then she probably has dried up, try again at bedtime, she may have enough for a feed once a day.

Continue to feed her really well and frequently and she may still keep producing milk for a while. At this tender age, they need all the sucks they can get. Do make sure their little nails have had the hooks taken of with nail clippers as they will hurt her and make her even more reluctant to feed. Do get the puppy porrige now you have the contact number even if it takes a week or so to get it, as you can feed it for a few weeks as a morning /bedtime drink even when they are on more texturd food in a couple of weeks time.

Bitches vomit there food up for puppies if you allow them to - I usually dont but in this case if they are not getting enough, you could feed the bitch very well pre- soaked puppy complete and then put her in with the pups about an hour later and she will bring it up for them as they hassle her for milk. I know it sounds disgusting but they WILL eat that and as long as the floor is clean it will do them good, after all Nature often knows best. ! What she eats though will have to be soft, so it comes up suitable for them to eat with no lumps. Sorry if you are eating your lunch!!! :-)

It sounds as though even though you are trying hard these pups are not eating or drinking enough.
You need to make sure they do not become dehydrated.
I know how hard bottle feeding can be so I would suggest until they are eating better you give them formula milk such as Lactol or Whelpi by tube feeding them.
At least that way you will know they are getting fluid and food. Depending on their size will depend the amount to give them. It is a quick and easy method and there is no chance of milk getting on to the lungs then causing pneumonia. Besides as soon as they get to 3 weeks they will find the weaning a whole lot easier.
Ask your vet to provide you with a feeding tube and syringe and to show you how to do it.
Remember with the puppy facing you aim the tube always to the right side of the puppy as it faces you. You do need to be careful for the first few times but then you soon get the hang of it :-) The milk goes straight into the tummy leaving both you and the puppy satisfied :-)

Hi Board sorry it takes a while to get back, but every thing here is so hectic, what with the hallway being decorated the last 2 days, and the baby and now the pups I am for ever doing something. Pups have took well to the weaning the girl will now lap at it, and the other 2 are not far behind her!! I have kept the mum away and she seems to be building up enough milk to feed them in the morning and at night, but thats about it, but thats the most she has had in 3 days! I am still feeding them lactol during the day and them seem to be looking ok as they sleep well after a feed... and all seem to be getting around alot more and the girl who seems to always be a bit more forward than boys and her eyes opened 1st, is now nearly walking! and the boys always seem to be about 2 days behind her, but although it is very tiring I am really enjoying caring for her baby's and get excited watching them do there 1st things! But i do have a message for those first time breeders, As i was no matter how much you read, You never realise how much hard work it can involve and even when everything seems to be going well, its surprise how quick things can change and how much work it all involves and how tiring it all becomes!! But all my baby's are worth it I just want to keep them all now so that bit of letting go now is going to be the hardest!!

The best bottles to use are ordinary baby bottles not pet nursing bottles. I like to use the 4 ounce bottles since usually even a large puppy will not want more to drink at a feeding than that. If they do then it is probably time to introduce solid food mixed with the replacement milk you are using to a thin gruel consistency. As they grow and the appetite increases the solid food is thickened.

At first it just take a little practice to get their tongue around the bottle properly. ;) Set the puppy upright on your lap as if it is sitting on it's little bum. Cup your hand around the back of the neck so your fingers can be used to open the mouth if it doesn't open up easily. The bottle sometimes needs to be swished around in their mouth so a small amount of the milk drops on the tongue. It can be frustrating but try to remain as patient as possible. The calmer you are the more relaxed the puppy will. Talk to it encouraging it to suckle the bottle. The bigger nipple seems to be a much better size for a puppy so once they get the hang of wrapping their tongue around it, latch on and start sucking you are away. If you are careful to keep the bottle level with the puppy's mouth the milk won't come out to fast. The little one that I'm hand feeding right now gets quite upset with me if I tip the bottle up to high to soon. Once all the appropriate elements are set for good nursing a puppy will drain a bottle in no time.

Another method to use if these puppies will just not take the bottle at this time is to use a feeding tube that you insert through the mouth down into the stomach and use a syringe to administer the formula. If you know any breeders of Toy dogs like Chihuahuas or Papillons, as these people quite often have experience with this technique. As the pups get older you can try the bottle again. This little gaffer I feed ,started out that way but has graduated back to a bottle and soon will probably be lapping from a dish of water and milk.

Hope this will help you out. Any other questions, contact me.

Margaret :) Canada